Choosing antenna for LTE/5G + WiFi

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by avanti

Just so everybody understands:
Starlink (and its competitors) is NOTHING like that kind of satellite internet. ...

.....

^^ Great summary - thanks Avanti. You saved me some typing.

And yes, nobody sees it coming. But my husband does.

[joelm]

I'm looking at a PepWave Puma 221 antenna to pair with a PepWave SOHO.

The Puma is 5G and 600Mhz compatible and about 40% less expensive than a comparable MobileMark which has 3 WiFi antennas but no 5Gz/600Mhz support . The only issue is that the SOHO is a 3-antenna MIMO router and the Puma only has 2-WiFi antennas.

Does anyone know how much degradation will I get if I only have two antennas? Is this going to just make it "less good" or "useless"?

[avanti]

Starlink LEO Internet is now in public beta in certain areas:
https://www.satelliteinternet.com/re...-beta-sign-up/
Summary:
--$99/month
--“Better Than Nothing Beta” -- i.e., not yet super fast and possible intermittent service
--one-time equipment fee of $499
--Currently available in southern Canada and Northern US.
--Not suitable for urban areas (due to individual satellite capacity)
--The beta TOC forbids use anywhere other than the address you signed up for

It's a start...

[Knit]

Originally Posted by joelm

I'm looking at a PepWave Puma 221 antenna to pair with a PepWave SOHO.

The Puma is 5G and 600Mhz compatible and about 40% less expensive than a comparable MobileMark which has 3 WiFi antennas but no 5Gz/600Mhz support . The only issue is that the SOHO is a 3-antenna MIMO router and the Puma only has 2-WiFi antennas.

Does anyone know how much degradation will I get if I only have two antennas? Is this going to just make it "less good" or "useless"?

Interesting question. Testing will provide the answer. Or maybe try and contact Peplink and ask. Or maybe one of the knowledgeable vendors like 5GStore.com would know. But it might work great. Two outdoor antennas for WiFi as wan and one indoors to broadcast to your devices.

I recently bought a Puma 401 with 4 LTE antennas as for the way I camp that I’ve only used WiFi as wan once or twice in the last 5 years with a mobilemark LTM antenna. For now I’m going to use the puma with two LTE routers (Cradlepoint IBR600 and Netgear LBR20) and perhaps get a mobile router/modem in the future that supports 5g and 4x mimo.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Knit

For now I’m going to use the puma with two LTE routers (Cradlepoint IBR600 and Netgear LBR20) and perhaps get a mobile router/modem in the future that supports 5g and 4x mimo.

So, you are intending to use a dual WAN router setup with a load-balancing mesh network in your van? That's interesting--I haven't been following the dual WAN stuff.

[Knit]

Originally Posted by avanti

So, you are intending to use a dual WAN router setup with a load-balancing mesh network in your van? That's interesting--I haven't been following the dual WAN stuff.

At this point, I am using the two router/modems as separate networks with different cell carriers. Choose whichever is working best at a given location. Redundancy.

[wny-pat]

Just what cheap data plans are out there? I use to be able to just my jetpack on a pay as you go when you need it, not on a monthly plan. That is long gone. My cell plan does not allow me to use the phone as a hot spot. Am seriously looking at Visble! Still have the old jetpack taking up space and not being used.

[joelm]

Interesting. Any idea if visible will allow you to put the SIM card in a MiFi?

[Winston]

Originally Posted by wny-pat

Am seriously looking at Visble!

Just checked the Visible site and the "Unlimited Wifi" had an asterisk . . . but couldn't find the meaning of that asterisk. Also, are we talking "phone use" unlimited or "hot spot" unlimited?

Also, their map shows US coverage (we assume, Verizon's). But no indication that Canada is part of the package . . .

It's hard to understand how a 'licensee' under Verizon's network could offer services at half the price of Verizon . . .

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Winston

Just checked the Visible site and the "Unlimited Wifi" had an asterisk . . . but couldn't find the meaning of that asterisk. Also, are we talking "phone use" unlimited or "hot spot" unlimited?

There is no such thing as "unlimited WiFi" from a mobile carrier.
There ARE plans that don't limit the number of bytes you use, but they ALL necessarily reserve the right to throttle and/or limit the number of devices. If they didn't, people would use them for their home Internet and overtax the nearby towers.
Calling it "unlimited" doesn't make it so.

[wny-pat]

Originally Posted by Winston

It's hard to understand how a 'licensee' under Verizon's network could offer services at half the price of Verizon . . .

Visible is a Verizon start up. That makes it understandable!!

My cell carrier, Puppy Wireless, is on the Verizon Network. I pay $26.00 total a month for unlimited calling, unlimited text, and 2 GB of data. But I am not permitted to use my phone as a hot spot. My rate has not gone up since they started the service.

[Winston]

Originally Posted by wny-pat

My cell carrier, Puppy Wireless . . . I pay $26.00 total a month for unlimited calling, unlimited text, and 2 GB of data. But I am not permitted to use my phone as a hot spot.

Guess we won't be looking for a Puppy. We hardly 'talk', virtually never text and use little direct cell phone data (on the phone itself). For us, our cell phone is essentially used for one thing: hotspot.

Originally Posted by avanti

There is no such thing as "unlimited WiFi" from a mobile carrier . . . Calling it "unlimited" doesn't make it so.

And therein lies our question . . . as we agree there isn’t such a thing as “unlimited WiFi”, then what does Visible mean when it says it offers “unlimited WiFi”?

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Winston

And therein lies our question . . . as we agree there isn’t such a thing as “unlimited WiFi”, then what does Visible mean when it says it offers “unlimited WiFi”?

I have not looked at this one in particular--I have stopped searching for unicorns. However, if it is like all the others in the world, it probably means that they don't limit bytes but reserve the right to throttle, either after a certain number of bytes or due to traffic conditions at the tower.

[avanti]

The Starlink engineering team had a major Q&A today on Reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Starlink/co...k_us_anything/

Lots of questions about use on a Sailboat and quite a few about RVs.

Summary:
--The current restriction on use away from the billing address is a beta thing--not a technical issue. The restriction will go away.
--Use at campgrounds will probably be totally practical eventually. It does require a clear view of the sky, but setting up the dish is trivial--just point it "up" and it takes it from there.
--The beam is very narrow, and is constantly tracking a fast-moving satellite, so a tree-branch is likely to cause a brief data outage.
--There is no basic issue with use on a moving vehicle (the vehicle motion would be negligible relative to the satellites'). However, the current antenna (which is the size of a medium-sized pizza) is not mechanically suitable for this usage scenario. Elon is also not particularly interested in this--he thinks that the needs of a vehicle are well-served with existing cell technology. He does say that smaller (10" or even 5") dishes are technically feasible at reduced (but still significant) bandwidth.

[Winston]

Originally Posted by avanti

Elon is also not particularly interested in this--he thinks that the needs of a vehicle are well-served with existing cell technology.

Thanks for the update.

But . . . if existing cell is meeting our needs, why do we need an additional $100/month Elon system?

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Winston

Thanks for the update.

But . . . if existing cell is meeting our needs, why do we need an additional $100/month Elon system?

He meant that cell bandwidth is adequate for moving cars on the highways, almost all of which have service.

The exciting part is the prospect of incredibly fast internet at any campsite with a view of the sky. No cell service or crappy campground WiFi required.

[wny-pat]

Originally Posted by avanti

There is no such thing as "unlimited WiFi" from a mobile carrier.
There ARE plans that don't limit the number of bytes you use, but they ALL necessarily reserve the right to throttle and/or limit the number of devices. If they didn't, people would use them for their home Internet and overtax the nearby towers.
Calling it "unlimited" doesn't make it so.

With Visible, during peak times when the system is really busy, they throttle everybody back. They don't throttle back individual customers back for using to much data!

[avanti]

Originally Posted by wny-pat

With Visible, during peak times when the system is really busy, they throttle everybody back. They don't throttle back individual customers back for using to much data!

That's not what their website says:

*In times of traffic, your data may be temporarily slower than other traffic.

https://www.visible.com/plan

I suppose that might mean that ALL Visible customers get slowed down WRT all Verizon customers, but that seems worse, not better.

There is no such thing as "unlimited WiFi" from a mobile carrier.