Centralized control systems

[booster]

I watch the posts on the forum that come up as I find it all very interesting from many points of view. Mostly my interest drifts toward the equipment used in vans and what kind of issue folks have with the various brands and styles of class B RVs.


What seems to keep jumping out to me is that there seem to be a rather large amount of issues with the centralized control systems that run pretty much everything in the coach section of the B van.


The issues can be as basic as "my lights don't work" all the way to "I have no 12v power or charging available".


The commonality of it all is that it all goes back to one touch pad controller for it all that is not working correctly.


I am having trouble understanding why it is desirable to run the lights, fan, furnace, ceiling fan, water pump, water heater, furnace, AC, etc through the controller and/or your phone when the controls, if individual, would be literally no more than 3 steps away. Too many failure points in the chain for my liking and no redundancy in most of the systems.


Personally, it would really irritate me to have to cut a trip short because the touch pad failed and I couldn't charge batteries or turn on the heat, but that may be just me.


I am sure there are those that have not have issues as we always hear more about problems than success, but I would like to hear what benefits would overpower the potential risks in such systems.


Yep, I know this is a bit incendiary, but I also think it would be very informational to some of us.

[Boxster1971]

Just saw this on YouTube today - the "Insane DIY Home Automated Van - Welcome to Smarty Van". Totally automated van with integration of some Sprinter functions. Looks similar to forum member @avanti home automation efforts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbZcyWUx9Uo

[@Michael]

A good topic.

I am having trouble understanding why it is desirable to run the lights, fan, furnace, ceiling fan, water pump, water heater, furnace, AC, etc through the controller and/or your phone

As is happening with automobiles, where knobs and buttons are going away, making simple things like turning down the radio or turning up the A/C are touchscreen & distract one from driving. I'll avoid buying those cars as long as possible.

My van has early generation multiplex system for controlling lights, operated by mechanical buttons that send digital signals to the multiplex controller. It's a good compromise - any of the lights can be operated from multiple points around the van without 3-way or 4-way switches and bundles of copper running all over the van. It also has a Bluetooth interface, which I've found to be useless. It's been completely reliable - likely because it's a fairly simple system controlled by well-tested firmware on reliable microcontrollers and IC's.

But I would not want the lights to be on a touch screen - too many touches to do a simple thing like flips the lights, which we do regularly, by feel & in the dark.

It also has separate control panel for the Truma, no remote control for the fan or A/C, mechanical switches for the pump and awning, and for some reason a completely separate mechanical switch for the bathroom light (doh!). Some of that would be better served by a unified touch screen of some sort. Having the Truma, roof fan and A/C on a single graphical interface would be nicer than in three separate places, two of which are up in the ceiling where my wife can't reach them, and each of which has a completely different, confusing, non-intuitive interface.

I've done a whole lot of custom electronics & added a custom touch screen - nearly all of which is oriented toward monitoring, not automation. I like knowing the temperature of my fridge & status of my batteries & whether it's hotter than heck in the van when I'm out hiking 5 miles from the van (because I forgot to open the vent fan), whether the solar is going to top off the battery while I'm out hiking, etc. I also appreciate being able to use my phone app to monitor tanks in real time levels while dumping and filling - especially when filling.

[jjrbus]

An RV is a large assembly of parts bouncing down the highway waiting for the most inopportune time to fail. Why make it worse with advanced technology?? Especially with the issues people have getting common well known repairs done. Does not compute! I am not against new ideas and have TPMS a real blessing. But it is a separate system and I would not want it incorporated into a centralized system. If I have issues with it I can throw it out and buy a new one.

Of course if you are tech savvy and can repair a printed circuit board on the side of the road with aluminum foil and a bobby pin different story.

20 some years ago I had issues with an Onan generator and would not take one for free. Been using Honda's ever since. The portables are a pain but one has never cost me a trip or a $1500 repair!

I have had my 02 Chevy express 5.7 going on 3 years I have had 2 issues, one did not throw a code and the current one showing an intermittent misfire code which the shop cannot find a cause for, it is intermittent and would not happen while the shop had it. Took me a while but I bumbled my way through the first problem, camshaft position sensor and will have to do the same with this one, leaves me missing the simplicity of my Toyota RV. [IMG][/IMG]

[peteco]

Originally Posted by jjrbus

An RV is a large assembly of parts bouncing down the highway waiting for the most inopportune time to fail. Why make it worse with advanced technology?? Especially with the issues people have getting common well known repairs done. Does not compute! I am not against new ideas and have TPMS a real blessing. But it is a separate system and I would not want it incorporated into a centralized system. If I have issues with it I can throw it out and buy a new one.

Of course if you are tech savvy and can repair a printed circuit board on the side of the road with aluminum foil and a bobby pin different story.

20 some years ago I had issues with an Onan generator and would not take one for free. Been using Honda's ever since. The portables are a pain but one has never cost me a trip or a $1500 repair!

I have had my 02 Chevy express 5.7 going on 3 years I have had 2 issues, one did not throw a code and the current one showing an intermittent misfire code which the shop cannot find a cause for, it is intermittent and would not happen while the shop had it. Took me a while but I bumbled my way through the first problem, camshaft position sensor and will have to do the same with this one, leaves me missing the simplicity of my Toyota RV. [IMG][/IMG]

Having the coolant thermometer on top of the radiator in plain view is the ultimate in simplicity; don't need no dang wires to cause problems

https://www.ebay.com/itm/226066105283

Agree with all here; as technology advances sometimes it gets too far ahead, or unnecessarily ahead of what is needed. Ideally there would be a simple backup system in place for when the main monitor/control system fails. But that adds complexity and cost.

[booster]

Originally Posted by peteco

Having the coolant thermometer on top of the radiator in plain view is the ultimate in simplicity; don't need no dang wires to cause problems

https://www.ebay.com/itm/226066105283

Agree with all here; as technology advances sometimes it gets too far ahead, or unnecessarily ahead of what is needed. Ideally there would be a simple backup system in place for when the main monitor/control system fails. But that adds complexity and cost.

Yep, and run it on ethanol instead of ethylene glycol so it you do it stuck you can just drink the radiator coolant to amuse yourself.

[GeorgeRa]

We just came back from great trip to Cape of Disappointment in Washington State. Absolutely great place to visit, but disappointing from a different perspective – our Eberspacher diesel heater. Temperature went down to below 50 at night so for morning breakfast I tried to turn the heater – control panel EasyStart Timer (EST) showed “no signal”. We had a small electric heater which helped. Next morning the same story – “no signal”. A short manual recommended to check the Airtronics heater fuse, it was OK. I didn’t remember how to get into the Diagnostic section of EST and there was no internet coverage.

We got home and I started to read loads of threads regarding “EST – No Signal”, great, I wasn’t alone. While reading these volumes I must have been using no publishable language about German Logic of Eberspacher, I think the Eberspacher heater in the garage was listening. Got back to the van to read the fault list on EST and found the heater was working again and no fault listed, it got scared of being possibly replaced with US made LPG heater with local logic of two wires connection to a thermostat. So, my concussion is to read loudly Eberspacher manual to get the unit getting scared and fixed by itself.

Adding another layer of centralized control panel could cause death by frustration to both, the owner and the Eberspacher heater.
When I built our van I paid attention to ease of troubleshooting, most of my key electrical circuits are on individual labeled CBs. Perhaps a centralized system with a completely automated troubleshooting capabilities is the way of the future but we are still far from it, I couldn’t get into diagnostic section of my heater because I didn’t have and Troubleshooting book feom Eberspacher. Electronics tend to be very reliable but software and electrical wiring need to be very robust especially wiring in the mobile application. A not working heater can ruin a trip.