Cassette Toilets - Why Not?

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by W9TR

Thanks for posting the pix. That solution is worse than the problem it is trying to solve. No easy way to clean out the flexible hose, which will harbor bacteria and toxins. One more thing to store. No thanks.

I agree and can’t imagine why anyone would use it rather than just dumping the cassette into the dump hole.

[avanti]

BTW, this is what a typical European-style dump station looks like, at least in Iceland:

IMG_8291.jpg

That is greywater coming out of the rig and into a grate. The pipe sticking up is for the cassette.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by avanti

Yeah. When I saw that my first thought was how much I hated touching the little 1" cap at the end of my sealed macerator hose. Now we are supposed to remove and replace (a) the cap on the cassette; (b) the adaptor; and (c) the stinky slinky.



I understand the logic of your enthusiasm, but I think you significantly overestimate the average RVer's tolerance for making an already unpleasant task more complex. One can certainly imagine science coming to the rescue with a highly-automated George Jetson solution, but I am just not seeing the demand that would be needed to motivate the necessary development.

An incinerating toilet seems like a viable solution except for the amount of electric or propane energy they use. As battery costs continue to fall an electric incinerator toilet may be the way to go.

[MsNomer]

His adapter is designed wrong. No way can he cleanly empty that hose. First, the hose is too long. Second, it should not have the 90° at the end. Instead, it should be a length that allows the hose to be straight in use—ship it longer with instructions for cutting to fit customer's arm height. The end fitting should be straight with a wide collar to keep it in place.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by MsNomer

His adapter is designed wrong. No way can he cleanly empty that hose. First, the hose is too long. Second, it should not have the 90° at the end. Instead, it should be a length that allows the hose to be straight in use—ship it longer with instructions for cutting to fit customer's arm height. The end fitting should be straight with a wide collar to keep it in place.

He is just selling the adapter and something like this would be the way to go for a hose...

http://www.camco.net/rhino-sewer-hos...YG6oCq7jyfgFrM

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Davydd

……………………..
The capacity of cassettes are still unsolvable vs. black tanks and carrying a spare as suggested still doesn't get you up to the minimum capacity of any black tank upfitters offer. Of course, where are you going to store it especially in a camper van that is dear on space? More frequency between dumps.
…………..

I have a second cassette stored in the back od the van, it is for emergency only but it gives more 10 gal of waste volume. The smallest black tank in my previous RVs was 16 gal, so even at 10 gal. I am not near 16 gal.

There is another possible way to extract benefits of black tank and cassette, a hybrid system I believe mentioned in the past by Pete.

An ideal combo from a user perspective:

- Black or Black/Grey tank with a power discharge system, centrifugal pump magnetically coupled (no shaft seals) with macerator blades/prongs. I don’t think a positive displacement impeller pump is necessary with pump located below the tank.
- A 5-gal emergency cassette, a modified Barker, on wheels with spout allowing to dump the waste into a toilet, mounted under the van in a place where permanent location wouldn’t be allowed. If MB needs to access that particular place just remove the cassette.

From a design perspective it will be complex, agree. A self-contain cassette can be located anywhere and it is four seasons ready. Black tank needs to be under the toilet unless additional pump is used.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

I have a second cassette stored in the back od the van, it is for emergency only but it gives more 10 gal of waste volume. The smallest black tank in my previous RVs was 16 gal, so even at 10 gal. I am not near 16 gal.

There is another possible way to extract benefits of black tank and cassette, a hybrid system I believe mentioned in the past by Pete.

An ideal combo from a user perspective:

- Black or Black/Grey tank with a power discharge system, centrifugal pump magnetically coupled (no shaft seals) with macerator blades/prongs. I don’t think a positive displacement impeller pump is necessary with pump located below the tank.
- A 5-gal emergency cassette, a modified Barker, on wheels with spout allowing to dump the waste into a toilet, mounted under the van in a place where permanent location wouldn’t be allowed. If MB needs to access that particular place just remove the cassette.

From a design perspective it will be complex, agree. A self-contain cassette can be located anywhere and it is four seasons ready. Black tank needs to be under the toilet unless additional pump is used.

I carry a spare cassette and when we are traveling away from anyplace to dump I also carry 2 Scepter wide mouth 5 gal military water carriers. Cassette spout fits into the wide mouth opening...

https://www.scepter.com/products/mil...ntainer-05935/

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

I carry a spare cassette and when we are traveling away from anyplace to dump I also carry 2 Scepter wide mouth 5 gal military water carriers. Cassette spout fits into the wide mouth opening...

https://www.scepter.com/products/mil...ntainer-05935/

Thank you, this container will fit the space behind the sofa bed and I could use it for extra water storage until switching to a waste tank giving me 15 gal max.

[Davydd]

So those with spare cassettes I guess you double your dump action efforts at one stop but carry poop and urine around wherever you store it. I hope not inside. If outside then you would probably have to have a hitch carrier with all the inconveniences just to carry that. I'm glad we are "15 years behind the Europeans" as I probably won't be RVing when America catches up.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by Bud

"No one mentions the grey water. Unless you are an environmental abuser especially when boondocking or more so at a campground, you still have to go to a dump station to dispose of grey water."

David, do you recall whatever happened with George dumping his gray water while driving? That was the plan at one time as I recall.

Bud

I don't know if he was being facetious or not, but I have witnessed people doing that and they don't get out on the road before doing it as they leave a streak through the campground. I did see one German with a Mann RV in an Anchorage, Alaska campground slowly drain to buckets several times and take take them to the dump station. It was my entertainment one afternoon watching him.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by Davydd

So those with spare cassettes I guess you double your dump action efforts at one stop but carry poop and urine around wherever you store it. I hope not inside. If outside then you would probably have to have a hitch carrier with all the inconveniences just to carry that. I'm glad we are "15 years behind the Europeans" as I probably won't be RVing when America catches up.

We carry our spare cassette in a rubbermaid tote in our rear storage compartment along with a ton of other stuff but we are not in a Class B. Never have had any issues with it leaking or smelling or anything but sitting in there waiting for us to dump it. Not sure why there is so much obsessing about something as simple as a cassette toilet...

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by Davydd

I don't know if he was being facetious or not, but I have witnessed people doing that and they don't get out on the road before doing it as they leave a streak through the campground. I did see one German with a Mann RV in an Anchorage, Alaska campground slowly drain to buckets several times and take take them to the dump station. It was my entertainment one afternoon watching him.

I guess you would be wildly entertained watching me fill 5 gal water jugs with grey water and carrying them to a vault toilet to dump them along with the cassette at a campground with no dump station. You seem to be easily entertained...

If there is dump station I simply drive over and attach a short length of garden hose to the grey tank outlet and drain it into the dump outlet. Not nearly as entertaining...

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Davydd

So those with spare cassettes I guess you double your dump action efforts at one stop but carry poop and urine around wherever you store it. I hope not inside. If outside then you would probably have to have a hitch carrier with all the inconveniences just to carry that. I'm glad we are "15 years behind the Europeans" as I probably won't be RVing when America catches up.

I store it outside until we leave and then store it inside to travel to a nearest dumping facility. I don’t have much experience using second cassette so statistically my sample is small, but I never had an issue with a leaking cassette the primary one or the secondary.

I think you are correct, 15 years from know cassettes will get more popular as they are gaining popularity now, even FIT RV folks are backpedaling. Perhaps 15 years from now you will be backpedaling as well. Never say never.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Davydd

.................Alaska campground slowly drain to buckets several times and take take them to the dump station. It was my entertainment one afternoon watching him.

Why was it an entertainment for you Dave? - because he carried buckets, or because he was German, or superiority complex.

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

An incinerating toilet seems like a viable solution except for the amount of electric or propane energy they use. As battery costs continue to fall an electric incinerator toilet may be the way to go.

We have a 50-post thread on incinerator toilets here on the Air Forums Sprinter and Class B subforum.

The energetics might become viable upon hooking up auxiliary propane either via a conventional manifold or the external plumbing that my husband and I put in place during the Texas freeze of 2021, but there are other considerations such as odor that owners of such systems have objected to.

That thread was an interesting exercise because it allowed a degree of quantitation. The OP had a very specific scenario of multiple toilet users and limited toileting alternatives on a small piece of land where they intended to vacation. The energy consumption projection was indeed significant. A port-a-john would have been their best option, but reportedly they could not get one delivered to, or serviced at, their location. Well, if a rental crapper was out of reach, where in the heck would they have been able to procure this much propane?

[MsNomer]

Originally Posted by Davydd

It was my entertainment one afternoon watching him.

I guess you would really be entertained by me and my 2-gallon (never full) Sherwin Williams bucket parading by every morning. Can I charge admission? I bought a new one, and on the side opposite the SW logo, it says "Purdy".

[tgregg]

Originally Posted by Davydd

....... Is that what Europeans have...... 15 years ahead of us or 15 years behind?

Dump and rinse clean in a vending machine....

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...tail&FORM=VIRE

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by avanti

.....
I understand the logic of your enthusiasm, but I think you significantly overestimate the average RVer's tolerance .....

There's a growing market segment that doesn't wish to deal in averages. I agree - most RV owners won't want to go that route. But we have seen a steady increase in full-timers, tiny home owners, and the like. I think it will continue.

Case in point. Given that the pandemic put so many activities off-limits, my husband and I are renovating a type of tiny home that could become our eventual place of retirement. We are still a long ways off from retirement, but with the confluence of forcings - the inflation we suspect will happen, and the soaring cost of building materials, and the prohibition on many other pursuits, we carpe diem'd to make use of our time.

It's about 530 square feet of full-ceiling height, with a partial height loft that I plan to use for sleeping and storage, putting it at the upper end of what is considered a "tiny home". After 6.5 years living part time in a van, it feels like the Taj Mahal.

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by tgregg

Dump and rinse clean in a vending machine....
....

It's a great concept, but in practical terms, it would be limited to the highest-population areas. Otherwise it would never generate enough revenue to pay for itself.

That scenario is antithetical to so many travel objectives, which involve getting *away* from population centers. Where I go, there's one hole-in-the-ground dump station for 25 miles in every direction, and only because there's a provincial park and campground there. There is no way any sparsely-visited location such as that could support such infrastructure.

[Davydd]

George, I probably should say I was amused, not entertained, with a simple task of emptying tanks that can be done with most RV systems with black and grey tanks in just 5 minutes every two weeks (for me) with no lifting of up to 50 lbs of unwieldy weight.

The FitRV people are backpedalling because they evidently didn't have a choice. They tied most of their influencing fortunes to Winnebago and it is obvious with two "loaners" so far. So they got what they got. Cripe! they abandon camper vans just as #vanlife took fancy because they evidently failed to achieve their checklist with Winnebago.

Now don't get me started on composting or water separation toilets like some influencers extoll. Like one video of a tippy tow influencer (James) carrying pee buckets or this merry lass preparing the poop bucket. They never show what they are really dealing with after actually using them.



As close to what one has at home, flush and forget, is the best system. Right now I think it is high capacity, fresh grey and black tanks with a closed system using a macerator. I have historically attended to the task every two weeks and I hope with my new van at least a minimum of every three weeks with a 5-10 minute clean operation.