Cassette Toilets - Why Not?

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by Davydd

I watched the FitRV video on the EKKO. I get the feeling they excuse a lot of stuff and rationalize acceptance like they went overboard on a previous video justifying a composting toilet that totally turned me off on one. It's a Class C with much greater room than a van and they accepted the concept of a cassette toilet saying it was just a reverse curl to take the cassette out? Laden with chemicals so they don't have to smell it when discharging? What is with that? Don't rinse it every time? They are both exercise fanatics didn't they say before and you drink a lot of water and eat a lot of calories needing a lot of capacity? Dump every day or water a lot of trees in the woods? That bathroom toilet is a contortionist dream for leg space. So much for their vaunted checklist for the perfect RV.

The EKKO bathroom seems pretty clever to me. Leg space seems fine and similar to our setup. The rotating shower wall provides a semi dry bathroom with the toilet side not getting wet during a shower. Only negative I see is the lack of a bathroom vent fan. The MaxxFan is just outside the bath and with the bathroom window open you can get an airflow through the bathroom. There could be a wall mounted vent fan in the bath but a ceiling fan is a problem with roof mounted solar panels. Solar panels on the roof rack option could possibly allow a small ceiling vent fan.

I think the EKKO is a pretty good design and good value for a true 4 season RV in a small outside footprint and ample inside space and nice bed setup and big rear storage on an AWD chassis. Discounted base price seems to be around $125,000.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Davydd

I watched the FitRV video on the EKKO. I get the feeling they excuse a lot of stuff and rationalize acceptance like they went overboard on a previous video justifying a composting toilet that totally turned me off on one. It's a Class C with much greater room than a van and they accepted the concept of a cassette toilet saying it was just a reverse curl to take the cassette out? Laden with chemicals so they don't have to smell it when discharging? What is with that? Don't rinse it every time? They are both exercise fanatics didn't they say before and you drink a lot of water and eat a lot of calories needing a lot of capacity? Dump every day or water a lot of trees in the woods? That bathroom toilet is a contortionist dream for leg space. So much for their vaunted checklist for the perfect RV.

There video is very likely a part of the price reduction for their new EKKO, so whatever it takes.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Davydd

The road clearance is ample and as far as I can tell the tanks are not as low as the Sprinter diesel tank itself and definitely well above the the MB body, the side skirts or add on nerf bar sides. You can see that in various ARV videos on YouTube. I'm not getting four wheel drive but am lifting my van about 2" with Sumo springs. So I anticipate about a minimum 8" clearance for my side nerf bars that hide the macerator, dump hose, dump pull handles, outdoor shower, and city water fill. The passenger side is the added fixed step for the sliding door. In other words, the tanks will be no problem for clearance.

8" clearance will be impressive. I am sure these tanks have very complex shape.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

There video is very likely a part of the price reduction for their new EKKO, so whatever it takes.

While they are clearly brand ambassadors for Winnebago I don’t believe they get any type of monetary benefit including any price reduction from Winnebago on their vehicle purchases. If you know otherwise then I am wrong...

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

While they are clearly brand ambassadors for Winnebago I don’t believe they get any type of monetary benefit including any price reduction from Winnebago on their vehicle purchases. If you know otherwise then I am wrong...

I don’t know specifically about them but do know that brand ambassadors or influencers get some kind of perks, could be discounts, freebies, or early access. Neither ambassadors nor influencers wouldn’t do it for free, it is a business. I looked into this topic once regarding Sony Alpha cameras, ambassadors or influencers get perks, and influencers get more with larger media followers and being perceived to be less biased.

FIT RV admits to their failure of evaluating the Porta Potty they claimed to be a cassette, it was clearly biased, OK, can happen. But cutting folks off from valid questioning wasn’t right.

This whole YouTube or other social media is just absolutely amazing in our 21st Century, but I am absolutely floored by new box openers videos, believe or not they are popular.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

I don’t know specifically about them but do know that brand ambassadors or influencers get some kind of perks, could be discounts, freebies, or early access. Neither ambassadors nor influencers wouldn’t do it for free, it is a business. I looked into this topic once regarding Sony Alpha cameras, ambassadors or influencers get perks, and influencers get more with larger media followers and being perceived to be less biased.

FIT RV admits to their failure of evaluating the Porta Potty they claimed to be a cassette, it was clearly biased, OK, can happen. But cutting folks off from valid questioning wasn’t right.

This whole YouTube or other social media is just absolutely amazing in our 21st Century, but I am absolutely floored by new box openers videos, believe or not they are popular.

Got it, you are simply lumping them in with other “influencers” who you think would never do what they are doing except as a business venture and have no info to support that in their specific case. I get why you don’t like them but I don’t think they do what they do in the RV world to make significant income. It is possible they do it because they enjoy interacting with their followers and provided useful info for them. I know James has a regular job for an IT company and I think Stefany is a fitness coach. They surely get some income from what they do, for example when people use their Amazon links to purchase stuff they recommend. But they are transparent about that and similar income sources. I have not seen any of the type of blatant advertising for their sponsors that you get from other “influencers”.

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by Davydd

I watched the FitRV video on the EKKO. I get the feeling they excuse a lot of stuff and rationalize acceptance ....

They are getting paid (it says so on the video). Historically they have been candid even as they are compensated, but there's a limit to how much of that the medium will bear.

Edit: To be specific, because I know someone will ask, the words "includes paid promotion" pop out of the lower left corner and hover on that part of the screen when I start up the video, and then disappear. I assume that means the presentation itself, as there are no embedded commercials.

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

They are keeping the cassette in their actual EKKO and James has invented a connector to attach to the cassette spout that allows you to connect a regular sewer hose to the cassette to dump into a dump station. .....

Creating the same functionality of a black tank *without* the larger volume needed for long trips and off-gridding?

Although, hose or no hose, I suppose it could still be removed manually by those who wish to do so.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

Creating the same functionality of a black tank *without* the larger volume needed for long trips and off-gridding?

Although, hose or no hose, I suppose it could still be removed manually by those who wish to do so.

https://www.thefitrv.com/rv-tips/cassette-toilet-adapter-solution-the-americanizer/

[avanti]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

They are keeping the cassette in their actual EKKO and James has invented a connector to attach to the cassette spout that allows you to connect a regular sewer hose to the cassette to dump into a dump station.

Originally Posted by InterBlog

Creating the same functionality of a black tank *without* the larger volume needed for long trips and off-gridding?

Although, hose or no hose, I suppose it could still be removed manually by those who wish to do so.

Wait... Am I confused?
You guys aren't saying that the purpose of this device is to leave the cassette inside the van while dumping, are you? I can't picture that at all.

According to one of their videos, the Embassy RV guys (who keep trying to innovate with various exotic toilets) apparently attempted to modify a standard cassette toilet by adding a macerator that would empty the tank in place. I don't think it worked out, and doesn't make much sense anyway. They appear to have been trying to reinvent the macerating toilet.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by avanti

Wait... Am I confused?
You guys aren't saying that the purpose of this device is to leave the cassette inside the van while dumping, are you? I can't picture that at all.

According to one of their videos, the Embassy RV guys (who keep trying to innovate with various exotic toilets) apparently attempted to modify a standard cassette toilet by adding a macerator that would empty the tank in place. I don't think it worked out, and doesn't make much sense anyway. They appear to have been trying to reinvent the macerating toilet.

The FitRV adapter is used when you get the cassette to where you are going to dump not while it is still in place in the van.

[gregmchugh]

https://www.thefitrv.com/rv-tips/cas...-americanizer/

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

https://www.thefitrv.com/rv-tips/cassette-toilet-adapter-solution-the-americanizer/

Ingenuous, but doesn't it once again rationalize faults of their settling for a cassette system in providing a solution.

That funnel idea would be easier to store than a slinky. Is that what Europeans have, a bowl like receptor with splashing? 15 years ahead of us or 15 years behind?

Slinkies definitely have to be rinsed. Can't do that easily in a vault toilet or bathroom so you may have to find a dump station anyway with a rinse hose and splashing. You have to lift the cassette higher with a slinky instead of tilting it at a dump station.

Slinkies are a poor solution for dumping a black tank since most have gone to macerators and 1-1/2 hoses with closed ends so you don't have to smell, splash, or rinse anything at anytime.

The capacity of cassettes are still unsolvable vs. black tanks and carrying a spare as suggested still doesn't get you up to the minimum capacity of any black tank upfitters offer. Of course, where are you going to store it especially in a camper van that is dear on space? More frequency between dumps.

No one mentions the grey water. Unless you are an environmental abuser especially when boondocking or more so at a campground, you still have to go to a dump station to dispose of grey water. Just another frequent disposal task that people with macerators as I pointed out with my overly large tanks for a van can do in two valve pulls in 5 minutes every two weeks, a quarter turn twist shut off valve at the disposal end of the hose and then shove into a storage compartment. Glove free, but I would recommend washing your hands as you should do anyway.

[Bud]

"No one mentions the grey water. Unless you are an environmental abuser especially when boondocking or more so at a campground, you still have to go to a dump station to dispose of grey water."

David, do you recall whatever happened with George dumping his gray water while driving? That was the plan at one time as I recall.

Bud

[Bud]

Originally Posted by Bud

"No one mentions the grey water. Unless you are an environmental abuser especially when boondocking or more so at a campground, you still have to go to a dump station to dispose of grey water."

David, do you recall whatever happened with George dumping his gray water while driving? That was the plan at one time as I recall.

Bud

Forgot, 'Humble Road' George.

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

https://www.thefitrv.com/rv-tips/cas...-americanizer/

What is the harm in showing how this device integrates in actual use? On that web page, all I saw was a spinning injection molded piece that told me nothing. I had to slog through the vid to find the pictures that told a thousand words, one two three:

[W9TR]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

What is the harm in showing how this device integrates in actual use? On that web page, all I saw was a spinning injection molded piece that told me nothing. I had to slog through the vid to find the pictures that told a thousand words, one two three:

Thanks for posting the pix. That solution is worse than the problem it is trying to solve. No easy way to clean out the flexible hose, which will harbor bacteria and toxins. One more thing to store. No thanks.

[InterBlog]

An additional two cents which I hope nobody will consider a thread hijack:

I went 5 years with a conventional black system and was happy with it, unconvinced of any other option. Only upon being forced to segregate urine and feces because of pandemic-related restrictions (specifically the prohibition against emerging prematurely from federally-enforced quarantine in order to dump wastewater in Canada)... only upon that titanic change in circumstances did I begin to see the merits of waste segregation.

I still think the future of vanning will encompass a larger component of waste separation. The tech is not yet where it needs to be, but hopefully it will improve.

^^ Comes to mind because, as James was dumping his plain water in his illustration video, I was envisioning a urine-only transaction, which wouldn't come with as many hazards, either pathologically or aesthetically.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Ingenuous, but doesn't it once again rationalize faults of their settling for a cassette system in providing a solution.

That funnel idea would be easier to store than a slinky. Is that what Europeans have, a bowl like receptor with splashing? 15 years ahead of us or 15 years behind?

Slinkies definitely have to be rinsed. Can't do that easily in a vault toilet or bathroom so you may have to find a dump station anyway with a rinse hose and splashing. You have to lift the cassette higher with a slinky instead of tilting it at a dump station.

Slinkies are a poor solution for dumping a black tank since most have gone to macerators and 1-1/2 hoses with closed ends so you don't have to smell, splash, or rinse anything at anytime.

The capacity of cassettes are still unsolvable vs. black tanks and carrying a spare as suggested still doesn't get you up to the minimum capacity of any black tank upfitters offer. Of course, where are you going to store it especially in a camper van that is dear on space? More frequency between dumps.

No one mentions the grey water. Unless you are an environmental abuser especially when boondocking or more so at a campground, you still have to go to a dump station to dispose of grey water. Just another frequent disposal task that people with macerators as I pointed out with my overly large tanks for a van can do in two valve pulls in 5 minutes every two weeks, a quarter turn twist shut off valve at the disposal end of the hose and then shove into a storage compartment. Glove free, but I would recommend washing your hands as you should do anyway.

I dump grey water into vault toilets along with the cassette when I am away from dump stations. I have never seen restrictions against this but there may be some in certain places.

I do know people who have a remote grey tank dump switch in the cab and dump on the move but not something I would ever consider doing.

The first EKKO model with the cassette toilet has a 50 gal fresh water tank and a 50 gal grey tank so extended periods between grey tank dumps is possible.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by W9TR

Thanks for posting the pix. That solution is worse than the problem it is trying to solve. No easy way to clean out the flexible hose, which will harbor bacteria and toxins. One more thing to store. No thanks.

Yeah. When I saw that my first thought was how much I hated touching the little 1" cap at the end of my sealed macerator hose. Now we are supposed to remove and replace (a) the cap on the cassette; (b) the adaptor; and (c) the stinky slinky.

Originally Posted by InterBlog

I went 5 years with a conventional black system and was happy with it, unconvinced of any other option. Only upon being forced to segregate urine and feces because of pandemic-related restrictions (specifically the prohibition against emerging prematurely from federally-enforced quarantine in order to dump wastewater in Canada)... only upon that titanic change in circumstances did I begin to see the merits of waste segregation.

I still think the future of vanning will encompass a larger component of waste separation. The tech is not yet where it needs to be, but hopefully it will improve.

I understand the logic of your enthusiasm, but I think you significantly overestimate the average RVer's tolerance for making an already unpleasant task more complex. One can certainly imagine science coming to the rescue with a highly-automated George Jetson solution, but I am just not seeing the demand that would be needed to motivate the necessary development.