Cassette Toilets - Why Not?

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by Glamper

I think for us (being glampers), we will be at campgrounds hot showers and toilets. We would primarily use Camper toilet during the night, so would expect 'light use' and the reason we want a short Class B (<20 ft) is so that we can bring it into campgrounds that exclude RV's and do not have hookups, like Ventana Campground in Big Sur (which is gorgeous BTW) so the cassette toilet would likely be best option for us. But considering the recent 'issues' (aka execs cooking the books) at North America Hymer and the mess with the Thor acquisition, Hymer may no longer be an option for us, and I believe they are only class B with cassette (?).

Winnebago Revel has one but maybe not what you are looking for...

[Glamper]

Originally Posted by rowiebowie

The Fit RV couple swears by their composting toilet. They tried and HATED a cassette toilet. Me, I'm very happy with my black tank and macerator pump.
.

I saw that Fit RV video, it was a DIY installation, replacing his compost toilet with the cassette makes me wonder if he did it correctly, used the correct chemicals etc. This column talks specifically about the Fit RV couple's experience, his conculsion.. "I don’t know what those people in the video did but I don’t believe their experience is typical if you’re using commercial porta potty chemical. Their video should definitely not be used to make a purchasing decision."
I agree with him! Do Camp Toilets Smell Part Two – The Dumping | My House Has Wheels

[GeorgeRa]

There are differences between portable porta pottis and cassettes. I am familiar with my Thetford C402 cassette toilet and use this to list differences:

- Water tank and toilet seat are mounted permanently with cassettes. It is important because during removal of a cassette there is no need to lift water tank/seat like in a porta potti.

- Most cassette waste tanks have wheels and extendable handle, just like a modern suitcase.

- Some cassettes, like mine C402 has vent line which automatically opens up during cassettes insertion.
These are not huge differences but for someone like FITRV utubing evaluation of a cassette toilet while reviewing a Thetford Curve porta potti without mentioning these differences shows their bias.

Internet is great, I love it, finding an information is easy, but finding truthful information is not so easy.

[BirdMadGirl]

I've noticed some posts that mention cassettes are easier since there are more dumping options...

someone mentioned dumping at home and another said any toilet would do.

Is this practical and safe for plumbing?

Can I really dump at home in my own commode, or visit the in-laws and dump in theirs?

Or will this end up a big mess, getting me in a heap of trouble?

[eric1514]

Originally Posted by BirdMadGirl

I've noticed some posts that mention cassettes are easier since there are more dumping options...

someone mentioned dumping at home and another said any toilet would do.

Is this practical and safe for plumbing? YES

Can I really dump at home in my own commode, or visit the in-laws and dump in theirs? YES

Or will this end up a big mess, getting me in a heap of trouble? NO

I answered in your quoted post. When I had a cassette toilet I can think of only one time that I used a dump station like other RVs with holding tanks. That was not fun. Dumping into a toilet is really easy and I typically did that at rest stops or campground toilets. I don't know your in-laws but I can imagine some folks not wanting you to traipse through their house with a tank full of waste.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by BirdMadGirl

I've noticed some posts that mention cassettes are easier since there are more dumping options...

someone mentioned dumping at home and another said any toilet would do.

Is this practical and safe for plumbing?

Can I really dump at home in my own commode, or visit the in-laws and dump in theirs?

Or will this end up a big mess, getting me in a heap of trouble?

There certainly are more option to dump, rest stops, campground toilettes, dump stations or house toilettes, I use these places without hesitation.

It is as safe for plumbing as direct use of toilets, same s….. The only problem could rise if you dump formaldehyde threated waste (blue stuff) into your own septic system, formaldehyde will kill bacteria.

All cassettes have built in vent to let air in as the tank is drain. This vent button must be pressed when you are ready to dump and the tank is in horizontal position. Toilet bowl will self-drain at some level, if done diligently there will not be any overflow nor splashes.

FIT RV folks did a dishonest video how bad cassettes were a while back while promoting composting toilettes, now they own a cassette system and are back-pedaling.

[JohnnyFry]

I have pumped my Macerator via an old garden hose roughly 50 feet to a friends septic tank opening. No problems, the pump has sufficient pressure to do the job.

[avanti]

I have given up describing my negative experiences with cassettes. These experiences are SO much different (and not in a good way) from those of several usually-reliable contributors that I no longer know what to think. Maybe it was all just one long nightmare...

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by avanti

I have given up describing my negative experiences with cassettes. These experiences are SO much different (and not in a good way) from those of several usually-reliable contributors that I no longer know what to think. Maybe it was all just one long nightmare...

My Thetford 402 cassette toilet is not a heavy-duty design, it is light, and it requires some attention. I always check for leaks, clean and lubricate seals with a black system lubricant to keep it trouble free. A small amount of water in the bowl is a quick indicator of a potentially leaking seal.

Perhaps your experience with a rented unit relates to cassette shape, perhaps it was abused, could heave dry, leaking or missing seals, perhaps it was cracked.

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by avanti

I have given up describing my negative experiences with cassettes. These experiences are SO much different (and not in a good way) from those of several usually-reliable contributors that I no longer know what to think. Maybe it was all just one long nightmare...

Emptying almost 5 gals of poo & urine instantaneously into a public or home toilet designed for one-person/one-flush does indeed seem like a nightmare. And one I never hope to experience in reality.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by rowiebowie

Emptying almost 5 gals of poo & urine instantaneously into a public or home toilet designed for one-person/one-flush does indeed seem like a nightmare. And one I never hope to experience in reality.

With no experience I would call it a “Judgment call”. Small correction, the cassette content Is not only poo-poo and pee-pee but very large clamps of toilet paper saturated with the goodies splashing out into the toilet during dump so eye glasses or a face shield or a Hazmat suit are absolutely necessary.

Most toilets in NA self-drain after reaching minimum level so toilet flush of mostly empty toilet is done AFTER dumping of the goodies.

I wish you would never be the owner or a user of a nightmarish cassette system, Cheers.

[eric1514]

No offense, but if you've never done it, you're both just imagining what might happen. The reality is, and I've emptied a cassette countless times, is that it is not the uncontrolled splashing of waste. You tip the cassette pipe over the toilet bowl and you modulate the angle of the tank and the opening of the air valve to achieve a gentle flow. You don't turn it upside down, push the button and let 'er rip.

[MsNomer]

Or you can empty more often. I've timed myself—from in the door to out the door of a campground toilet, 15 seconds to empty my daily bag, which would be similar to cassette, except that I have less control. My advantage is nothing to rinse.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by eric1514

No offense, but if you've never done it, you're both just imagining what might happen. The reality is, and I've emptied a cassette countless times, is that it is not the uncontrolled splashing of waste. You tip the cassette pipe over the toilet bowl and you modulate the angle of the tank and the opening of the air valve to achieve a gentle flow. You don't turn it upside down, push the button and let 'er rip.

I was facetious in my previous post responding to the post with negative cassette dumping prediction without experience. So, I fantasized about saturated toilet paper clumps projectiles and Hazmat suits.

During the last 7 years of using Thetford 402 Cassette toilet, I never had a spill, splash, leak nor odor problem. Emptying a cassette is not rocket science. For some the disadvantage of weight can be balanced by emptying frequency.

However, during my previous 25 years of using black tanks I had seen plenty of corn kernels processed by others.

[InterBlog]

Originally Posted by avanti

I have given up describing my negative experiences with cassettes. These experiences are SO much different (and not in a good way) from those of several usually-reliable contributors that I no longer know what to think. Maybe it was all just one long nightmare...

+1.

At this point, the best approach might be to simply say,

"It's user-specific, so if you think a cassette toilet might work for you, go ahead and get one.

But with that said, please do everyone on this forum one simple favor: post back your findings, your actual experience. Honestly and unvarnished with no cheerleading of the type that might be stimulated by buyer's remorse."

Because that honesty is what would serve potential new adopters the best. Unfortunately, it's not always what happens.

[GeorgeRa]

Sorting through human waste RV systems information in NA to get an actual data on cassettes usability is difficult. I found that most negatives come from non-users often in defense of black tanks. A way to screen the information is to seek actual user information, info from folks having direct knowhow not from not users.

Any system can outright fail or not perform to user expectation. I recall 2 folks with direct negative experience using cassettes, Pete’s rental unit and another fellow from WA with a large family. Regarding large family, a black tank is likely a better choice.

If I would be doing another conversion, I would most likely use another cassette or a large ceramic toilet with highly engineered, industrial/marine level sanitary discharge system with rotary tank rinsing system and ¾” discharge port. Adding a Barker 5-gal tote could allow to use it as a cassette.

[michaelingp]

Originally Posted by mlts22

1: Trying to dump them in a normal US pipe may lead to a nasty spill. Europe has stainless steel pits that flush just for the purpose of dumping and rinsing cassettes. Trying to dump in a toilet at a bathhouse may get one asked some very pointed questions by camp rangers worried about it overflowing, especially a pit or vault toilet system. Of course, we will get slobs which will drag them near a shower drain in a bathhouse and empty them there.

We have a cassette toilet and love it. Our dumping experience is almost exactly the same as when we had a conventional black tank. We normally dump at campground dump stations, except for the final dump which would be in our toilet at home, which is a big advantage. Yes, we have had an "accident" with the cassette which caused a bit of a mess, but then there was the time our black tank drain hose turned itself into a big slinky at one campground dump station which was an even huger mess. (Stuff happens.)

2: They can be heavy. Factoring 10 pounds per gallon, they can weigh 50+ pounds, so can be unwieldy, especially for older RV-ers.

My wife and I are in our upper 60's and it's never been an issue. The cassette has wheels so it's easy to get over to the dump station. She normally dumps the cassette while I'm getting the gray water tank ready to dump. It has a well balanced handle so it's easy to lift. She just lifts it up and pours it in the dump station opening.

3: They require chemicals, unlike a black water tank which just needs water and perhaps some dish soap or water softener to keep stuff from going solid.

I'm not sure I understand this. When we had a conventional black water tank we used the same chemicals we use in the cassette. If we didn't, it would smell pretty bad. Don't most people use chemicals in their black water tanks?

4: A flush uses the same amount of water regardless if it is a #1 or #2. With my current RV toilet, I can use extremely little water for liquids.

Again, not our experience. Our Thetford cassette only "flushes" in the sense you press a button for water to enter the bowl. Without getting too graphic, I can tell you very little water is needed and you can use as much or as little as you like.

Of course, they have a number of advantages:

1: If it freezes, replacing a cartridge is a lot easier than replacing plumbing and a black tank. To boot, the cartridge is in the vehicle's interior which means that one can function adequately using antifreeze for flushing in below freezing temperatures.

Huge benefit in my view. We live very far from an RV service business, and they typically take weeks to schedule you. I really like it that any problem can be fixed with readily available parts. I had to replace the big valve on my previous black water tank drain, and I did it, but it was a pretty big job underneath the van. If your black water tank is damaged, just try to find a new one, not to mention how big a job it would be to replace.

2: Multiple cartridges can be used or brought along. If boondocking, I could see bringing a few cartridges along, since they are a lot more manageable than a large tote tank.

We don't do this. Storage is way too precious in a class B.

3: They make it easy to do good RV floorplans since a large black tank doesn't have to be underneath the toilet. All is needed is a hatch to pull the cartridge out, and this can be in the back at the van doors, on the side, or even inside.

This is why we have a cassette. We have a Safari Condo motorhome built on an 18' Promaster. There is just no room for a conventional bathroom. The toilet is located in a hassock without even a vent pipe, so it doesn't block any windows, or really take up any room at all. We love having windows all around the van. It allows a very airy, open floor plan that would be impossible with a conventional bathroom in a van this small.

That said, a small van with a cassette is not for everybody. I think most people in the U.S. would prefer a larger van which would have more room, more storage, a bigger bed, and a "real" bathroom. Some people are not comfortable with the degree of intimacy that the cassette toilet requires between the people who use it. Some people don't believe in washing your hands in the kitchen sink after using the toilet. The capacity of the cassette is less than our previous black water tank so we have to dump more often. On the other hand, dumping takes less time, so it kind of works out, we just have to be a little more thoughtful.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by michaelingp

I'm not sure I understand this. When we had a conventional black water tank we used the same chemicals we use in the cassette. If we didn't, it would smell pretty bad. Don't most people use chemicals in their black water tanks?

Absolutely not!
As we have discussed many times, a properly functioning RV black tank system won't smell any more than your home toilet (i.e., not at all). Unlike a cassette, a plumbed toilet is completely and permanently sealed (except during the 1-2 second flush time). We NEVER use chemicals and our bathroom never smells. If yours does, then it is broken and should be repaired.

Of the many things we hated about our cassette experience, by far the worst was that it smelled. We used chemicals (had to add them on each and every of the very frequent dumps, according to the instructions). I suppose it helped, but not nearly enough. It is true that our cassette system did not come with the "optional" exhaust fan. I am quite sure that with a fan, the odor can be mitigated, but IMO a system that requires such a fan and also chemicals is not a great system.

Yes, I understand that others claim that their cassette systems don't smell. This may be true, but it is very difficult for me to accept that a system that depends on sliding rubber seals can be made reliably gas-proof. In any event, given that in our usage pattern, a sealed, macerator-equipped waste tank system has zero disadvantages and many advantages, I am unlikely to ever be tempted. I will dump my last load down the clean-out rather than a toilet, thank you.

Oops! I said I was going to shut up on this topic. Sorry.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by michaelingp

………….. We have a Safari Condo motorhome built on an 18' Promaster. There is just no room for a conventional bathroom. The toilet is located in a hassock without even a vent pipe, so it doesn't block any windows, or really take up any room at all. We love having windows all around the van. It allows a very airy, open floor plan that would be impossible with a conventional bathroom in a van this small…………………..

Our goal was also to have visibility of 360-degree windows. Regarding toilet layout we copied Safari Condo cassette one, except ours is called an Ottoman, so we can call it the Pottoman. As an ottoman it is usable from both front seats.

[avanti]

In what way does a cassette toilet save interior space compared with a plumbed toilet? Couldn't you build the latter into a hassock/ottoman if you wanted to?