Camping in a Class B when it gets cold...

[ballbraindogs]

I tried to attach my procedure for my 2000 Pleasure Way Excel TD for Fall and Spring but it wouldn't work. So, here is the not so pretty version...

Winterizing and De-winterizing - 2000 Pleasure Way Excel TD

Winterizing:
Fill: Gas Tank
Drain: water heater tank
Drain: freshwater tank (leave valve open)
Open: Hot and Cold valves under camper (red and blue lines)
Attach: Hose with special fitting to city water valve. Blow out each zone, one at a time, with hand pump.
• Zone 1: Kitchen faucets
• Zone 2: Bath faucets
• Zone 3: Outdoor shower faucets
• Zone 4: Toilet water
Empty: Water jugs
Remove: Anything that might freeze (food, bottled water, lotion, soap, shampoo, toothpaste, etc.)
***Note: Leave valves and faucets open!!!***
Pour 1 cup RV antifreeze down: Kitchen drain, Bath sink drain, Shower drain, Toilet
Turn RED switch off
Cover tires

De-winterizing:
Turn RED switch on
Replace: Anode in water heater tank (only if needed)
Close:
• Freshwater tank faucet
• Hot and cold valves under camper (red and blue lines)
• Kitchen faucets
• Bath faucets
• Outdoor shower faucets
Fill:
• Freshwater tank
• Water jugs
Test all systems! (Refrigerator, Stove, Furnace, Water Pump, Water Heater)

[hbn7hj]

Most of us didn’t set out to find the cold limits. We just wanted a fully functioning RV and gave it a try. That is how we found our limits. Just have to make sure the water pump, macerator, and toilet valves don’t freeze. If the water doesn’t run the next morning then you have exceeded your temperature limit for a fully functional water system.

A fully functional RV in freezing weather is certainly a pleasure. It does require a working generator, furnace and a lot of propane if you are off grid.

If you want colder then it is bottled water and bagged toilet. For traveling in the winter a car and motel are my choice.

[Kevin Graves]

I live at 8,000 feet and use my Roadtrek 190 plus year round. In winter, I drain all tanks, open up faucets and use anti freeze in the black and gray tanks. I installed a 10 gallon water tank in the wardrobe closet behind the driver seat with a water fill on the outer wall of the van and hooked it up to the water pump with a valve (up is inside tank; down is RT outside tank). Since the new tank is inside; it does not freeze up so I still have running water. I do not have hot water--but this setup was much better than using water bottles.

[Bogues]

Hi Ross Williams,

We were talking about using our 1989 Camper Van in the winter season as well and you are right about not being able to find a dump station in the winter (we are in the Truro area of Nova Scotia and was planning on staying in the Halifax area in the winter) How much RV anti-freeze did you find you needed to use to dilute grey water and the toilet? Same - only will be using the sink for dishes/brushing teeth (using bottled water) but will need to use the washroom in the middle of the night here and there.

Thank you,
Connie

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

You can winterize and still use your RV. We have camped in -20F fully winterized. The only real issue is not having running water assuming your heater will keep you warm. Disposing of dish water etc can be a pain. You need to add enough RV antifreeze to prevent your gray water freezing even when diluted. Same with toilet. We have never tried to dump our tanks while winterized, largely because its hard to find a dump station open when its that cold. But without running water that hasn't been an issue.

[RossWilliams]

Originally Posted by Bogues

Hi Ross Williams,

We were talking about using our 1989 Camper Van in the winter season as well and you are right about not being able to find a dump station in the winter (we are in the Truro area of Nova Scotia and was planning on staying in the Halifax area in the winter) How much RV anti-freeze did you find you needed to use to dilute grey water and the toilet? Same - only will be using the sink for dishes/brushing teeth (using bottled water) but will need to use the washroom in the middle of the night here and there.

Thank you,
Connie

Connie -

We only used enough to cover the toilet valve each time. So maybe 1 cup. As I recall, we went through two four gallons of anti-freeze, so even with our 10 gallon black water tank we never really stretched its capabilities. That was a few weekend trips in -0F and one week to Texas before we de-winterized.

The grey water is harder. For one thing you are diluting the anti-freeze a lot more. If you are going to wash dishes and pour the water down the drain, I would get the lower temperature (-75F) rv antifreeze and flush the water from the trap with an equal amount to the water you are poured down the drain. But that isn't really based on any experience. We are backpacker/tent campers, so not using much water is pretty natural.

[Bogues]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

Connie -

We only used enough to cover the toilet valve each time. So maybe 1 cup. As I recall, we went through two four gallons of anti-freeze, so even with our 10 gallon black water tank we never really stretched its capabilities. That was a few weekend trips in -0F and one week to Texas before we de-winterized.

The grey water is harder. For one thing you are diluting the anti-freeze a lot more. If you are going to wash dishes and pour the water down the drain, I would get the lower temperature (-75F) rv antifreeze and flush the water from the trap with an equal amount to the water you are poured down the drain. But that isn't really based on any experience. We are backpacker/tent campers, so not using much water is pretty natural.

Thank you for that - very helpful

[Layton100@gmail.com]

Hi, mind sharing what you did to your van to make it 4 Season?

[NFRicaS]

I travel in the winter to Oklahoma, Kansas, and Iowa...just carry enough water for basics, so don’t even need much in the way of antifreeze...of course, I am not in Nova Scotia..

[Bogues]

Originally Posted by Layton100@gmail.com

Hi, mind sharing what you did to your van to make it 4 Season?

Myself - stilll working on it So nothing solid yet.

[Bogues]

Originally Posted by NFRicaS

I travel in the winter to Oklahoma, Kansas, and Iowa...just carry enough water for basics, so don’t even need much in the way of antifreeze...of course, I am not in Nova Scotia..

Very true

[Bogues]

Hi there,

Just an update on what I did through the winter - well I only camped from October up until Christmas in the Dartmouth, NS area. Some days were pretty cold - The Van itself could use a lot of insulation - I will tell you that much. I liked it when it snowed as it made it cozier in the van - I didn't do too much driving during that time as my work let me park in the parking lot (as I stayed in it from Monday to Friday to work in the city). I would only drive to go to have a shower at the gym I had a membership at (sadly I wasn't ready to work out yet so that is all I used that membership for), get some food at Walmart (where I was staying - but I felt more comfortable at my work - so I moved to there to sleep), or go to the library or a friends house in the area sometimes - where she would let me hole up on some cold nights. One night my propane ran out (I should have gotten it filled the weekend before but I was being lazy about it) - thankfully it was my last night there during that week and thankfully I had the Mr. Buddy (with a window cracked open) to keep me warm. It took me way too long to get it lighted though as I was freezing and my hands were shaking. The coldest day I believe was -10 Celcius...I can't remember but that might have been a day where I stayed on my friends couch - lol.

So...seeing as I have only had the van since October - does anyone know how to properly get the anti-freeze out of your system - so you don't taste it on your dishes etc...?

[PaC]

I just did mine today. Basically just flush the antifreeze out then sanitize the freshwater system with chlorine. Each unit may have a little different procedure. Probably best to go online and download the manual for your rig and follow their instructions.

[jrobe]

The trick for next year is to winterize the van without putting RV antifreeze into the freshwater tank or the water heater tank. I first drain the two tanks and then blow everything out with compressed air. Then I close the two tanks off from the water system and use a very small amount of antifreeze through the water lines and through the water pump to protect it. In the spring I can simply and quickly flush the antifreeze out of the water lines before I reopen and fill the two tanks. Keeping the antifreeze out of the tanks in the fall is the key.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by jrobe

The trick for next year is to winterize the van without putting RV antifreeze into the freshwater tank or the water heater tank. I first drain the two tanks and then blow everything out with compressed air. Then I close the two tanks off from the water system and use a very small amount of antifreeze through the water lines and through the water pump to protect it. In the spring I can simply and quickly flush the antifreeze out of the water lines before I reopen and fill the two tanks. Keeping the antifreeze out of the tanks in the fall is the key.

...or, just skip the antifreeze altogether. Remove the clear plastic strainer cap that most pumps have, take any removable plastic fixtures such as shower heads indoors, and all will be well.

You do still need some in the drain traps, but anywhere else is pointless after a proper blow-out.

[Davydd]

I used anti-freeze just one winter in my water lines over 14 years. Never again. I blew out the lines just once too. My water lines all had low point drain cocks which I opened up on my final drive home (jostling the lines) after emptying water as much as possible in the black and grey tanks for the final dump. It seem to have worked when I stored outside in a Minnesota winter.

Now I don't winterize since I store in a heated garage.

[avanti]

PEX pipes and fittings are unlikely to be damaged even if you don't do anything. They are quite robust. The problem with not blowing out the lines isn't the piping, it is the fixtures. Modern plastic spray heads often (a) are made of brittle plastic and (b) have fancy spray and/or shut-off mechanisms that contain internal nooks and crannies that don't drain well. And, as I mentioned there is also the clear plastic dome over the screen in many pumps. even when properly blown out, there is risk at these locations. Fortunately, most of them are easily removed and taken indoors for the duration. There is also the Keurig coffeemaker if you have one. Many of them cannot be properly drained and so should also be taken indoors.

BTW: Don't think you have to live in Minnesota for this to be an issue. The danger zone is not in extreme cold, but rather just below freezing. That is where maximum expansion occurs. This can happen most anywhere.

[PaC]

Originally Posted by Davydd

I used anti-freeze just one winter in my water lines over 14 years. Never again. I blew out the lines just once too. My water lines all had low point drain cocks which I opened up on my final drive home (jostling the lines) after emptying water as much as possible in the black and grey tanks for the final dump. It seem to have worked when I stored outside in a Minnesota winter.

Now I don't winterize since I store in a heated garage.

I guess it’s overkill but I don’t trust just blowing out the lines with our northern Mn winter temps so I blow out the lines and use antifreeze. Sometimes I have to do a quick winterization while traveling and antifreeze comes in handy then.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by PaC

I guess it’s overkill but I don’t trust just blowing out the lines with our northern Mn winter temps so I blow out the lines and use antifreeze. Sometimes I have to do a quick winterization while traveling and antifreeze comes in handy then.

As I said, freeze damage is not particularly related to frigid northern temperatures. Ice shrinks when it gets colder, just like any other solid. It is at the freezing point that the damage occurs, so you are actually SAFER where it gets cold and stays there. After a little practice, I have found blowing out is a LOT faster than screwing around with antifreeze.

[PaC]

Originally Posted by avanti

As I said, freeze damage is not particularly related to frigid northern temperatures. Ice shrinks when it gets colder, just like any other solid. It is at the freezing point that the damage occurs, so you are actually SAFER where it gets cold and stays there. After a little practice, I have found blowing out is a LOT faster than screwing around with antifreeze.

Yes, but antifreeze is inexpensive and easy to winterize with after blowing out the lines and whether it makes sense or not it gives me peace of mind when it’s -20 or colder. Just my little routine.

[@Michael]

Originally Posted by avanti

As I said, freeze damage is not particularly related to frigid northern temperatures. Ice shrinks when it gets colder, just like any other solid. It is at the freezing point that the damage occurs, so you are actually SAFER where it gets cold and stays there. After a little practice, I have found blowing out is a LOT faster than screwing around with antifreeze.

I had a shower valve crack once - the compressed air didn't clear it completely and enough water settled in it to bust it. Sprayed a ton of water inside one of the walls. Trailer was an all-aluminum Livinlite Camplite so no damage was done.

Originally Posted by PaC

Yes, but antifreeze is inexpensive and easy to winterize with after blowing out the lines and whether it makes sense or not it gives me peace of mind when it’s -20 or colder. Just my little routine.

I usually blow the lines then fill with antifreeze, then blow the antifreeze out an let it fill the traps and coat the tank valves.

Double-extra protection.

But I never put any antifreeze in the Truma hot water tank or fresh tank.