Bicycle rack conundrum... Continued.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by Etzu

I have to call bull on this. They make class 4 hitches for these and I've seen 170's with motorcycle hitch mounts hauling 500+lb KTMs.

Surely a 30lb bike rack and 50lbs worth of bike should be fine.

I may add a second or third hitch receiver just in case, but I'd do that on any vehicles I was putting a 15k motorcycle on.

I am confused, what are you calling bull on?

The bike rack failures when the rack is far behind the rear wheel? These have nothing to do with the hitch receiver weight carrying capabilities.

[RT.SS]

I was driving south to San Diego yesterday and a Class C RV lost a bike on the freeway and almost caused an accident, I have to swerve hard right to avoid the bike on the pavement. I was able to catch up with the RV as he change lanes to pull over on the freeway shoulder, you can see his remaining bikes (3 of them) bobbing with the Thule hitch rack (hanging type model). The bike strap probably unhooked itself or broke. Be careful out there.

[<<B-Guy>>]

Originally Posted by RT.SS

I was driving south to San Diego yesterday and a Class C RV lost a bike on the freeway and almost caused an accident, I have to swerve hard right to avoid the bike on the pavement. I was able to catch up with the RV as he change lanes to pull over on the freeway shoulder, you can see his remaining bikes (3 of them) bobbing with the Thule hitch rack (hanging type model). The bike strap probably unhooked itself or broke. Be careful out there.

When we had our truck & trailer, I used one of those hanging bike racks on the front of the truck it didn't use straps though - used a clamp that was screwed down on the bike's cross bar. Even so, I used to run a cable lock to try to ensure that if it did come adrift, hopefully it would stay with the truck. Mind you I would be the first to run over it anyway!

I never did have any problems at all with over 20 years carrying the bikes this way.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by Wingeezer

When we had our truck & trailer, I used one of those hanging bike racks on the front of the truck it didn't use straps though - used a clamp that was screwed down on the bike's cross bar. Even so, I used to run a cable lock to try to ensure that if it did come adrift, hopefully it would stay with the truck. Mind you I would be the first to run over it anyway!

I never did have any problems at all with over 20 years carrying the bikes this way.

Originally Posted by RT.SS
I was driving south to San Diego yesterday and a Class C RV lost a bike on the freeway and almost caused an accident, I have to swerve hard right to avoid the bike on the pavement. I was able to catch up with the RV as he change lanes to pull over on the freeway shoulder, you can see his remaining bikes (3 of them) bobbing with the Thule hitch rack (hanging type model). The bike strap probably unhooked itself or broke. Be careful out there.


YES... Thule and Yakima told me this might occur on the 170 inch wheelbase... it's all because of the distance and the forces that go directly behind the rear wheels..


I'm glad you were able to avoid getting entangled in this mess...

Here's the thing …. if you've been advised NOT to do something via email, which I was actually by Thule... and you DO IT ANYWAY.... against professional advice... and this can be documented... believe me... if it's an email it's documented..... AND, you cause a serious accident...

YOU are going to be in some serious ****... found negligent and who knows what's going to happen to your driver's license and insurance. DO you really want to take that risk and risk others??? I do NOT...


If you don't have the 170 inch wheelbase... it's not an issue or use the stationary bike rack that's approved... there's ways around this, but, it's all complicated.

[booster]

I think there are a lot of different things, and problems getting all stirred together here.

First would be that there would not be any problem designing a rear rack for a 170" wheelbase van with a big rear overhang, and have it survive.

Second would be that if a rack was originally designed for less wheelbase and/or smaller overhang, it could easily see forces that could cause harmonic oscillations of some sort, or outright overstress. The acceleration forces go up very quickly with distance from the pivot point.

If a company got a couple of failure complaints from racks on a particular vehicle, it is certainly the responsible thing to do to stop selling them for that application. My bet would be that very few of the racks for sale have had full blown stress anaysis.

I am surprised that more racks don't break or bikes fall off, as there are so many that are bouncing continuously, twisting the hitch mount, or have the bikes moving around a bunch.

IMO, the only thing that anyone would need to be concerned about on the hitch itself would be receiver tightness, which also makes a 2" unit less likely to rotate badly. With any mount of a rack, I would add anti-rotation screws to the receiver to stop any rotation potential.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by booster

I think there are a lot of different things, and problems getting all stirred together here.

First would be that there would not be any problem designing a rear rack for a 170" wheelbase van with a big rear overhang, and have it survive.

Second would be that if a rack was originally designed for less wheelbase and/or smaller overhang, it could easily see forces that could cause harmonic oscillations of some sort, or outright overstress. The acceleration forces go up very quickly with distance from the pivot point.

If a company got a couple of failure complaints from racks on a particular vehicle, it is certainly the responsible thing to do to stop selling them for that application. My bet would be that very few of the racks for sale have had full blown stress anaysis.

I am surprised that more racks don't break or bikes fall off, as there are so many that are bouncing continuously, twisting the hitch mount, or have the bikes moving around a bunch.

IMO, the only thing that anyone would need to be concerned about on the hitch itself would be receiver tightness, which also makes a 2" unit less likely to rotate badly. With any mount of a rack, I would add anti-rotation screws to the receiver to stop any rotation potential.

I have always used one of the various hitch tightener devices on our bike racks or on our stowaway cargo box. Wobble at the hitch receiver can never be a good condition.

[<<B-Guy>>]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

Originally Posted by RT.SS
I was driving south to San Diego yesterday and a Class C RV lost a bike on the freeway and almost caused an accident, I have to swerve hard right to avoid the bike on the pavement. I was able to catch up with the RV as he change lanes to pull over on the freeway shoulder, you can see his remaining bikes (3 of them) bobbing with the Thule hitch rack (hanging type model). The bike strap probably unhooked itself or broke. Be careful out there.


YES... Thule and Yakima told me this might occur on the 170 inch wheelbase... it's all because of the distance and the forces that go directly behind the rear wheels..


I'm glad you were able to avoid getting entangled in this mess...

Here's the thing …. if you've been advised NOT to do something via email, which I was actually by Thule... and you DO IT ANYWAY.... against professional advice... and this can be documented... believe me... if it's an email it's documented..... AND, you cause a serious accident...

YOU are going to be in some serious ****... found negligent and who knows what's going to happen to your driver's license and insurance. DO you really want to take that risk and risk others??? I do NOT...


If you don't have the 170 inch wheelbase... it's not an issue or use the stationary bike rack that's approved... there's ways around this, but, it's all complicated.

Well I guess I won't be going to Thule or Yakima!

Did you happen to look into "Swagman" bike racks?

On their website they have a few models that are specifically listed as "RV Approved." At least one rack approved for 60 lb bikes - ours are 25lbs.

Included are their XP4, DISPATCH, and ESCAPEE Models among others.

Notably they all appear to use a 2" main structure as opposed to some other makes / models that appear designed for 1-1/4" hitches and then have a 2" adapter stuck on the end to make it work with a 2 receiver.

Brian.

[<<B-Guy>>]

Still trying to decide how to deal with our bikes on the 170" WB Sprinter.

The latest rear rack I have looked at is the RockyMounts Backstage 2.

It has an integrated swing mechanism. I do want the ability to access the back doors, especially when sleeping in the van.

If the bikes are on, my thought was to unlatch the mechanism, but not swing the bikes fully aside - I figured that opening the door in an emergency would just swing the bikes away as needed. It doesn't look teh need much effort from videos I saw.

I would likely try to position some sort of padding at the contact point to avoid paint damage if we ever needed to get out this way - but then in an emergency a scratch would be a small price to pay in any event!

The rack is rated for 60lb bikes (ebikes?) and appears pretty substantially made on a
2" drawbar. Our bikes weigh 26lbs

Because the website did not specify, I emailed them about use on a 170" WB sprinter.

The reply I received advised ok on either the 144 and 170, but not recommended on the XL version.

I believe earlier in this thread it was mentioned that someone was using this rack and was happy with it.

I liked the fact that it is fully integrated with its own swing mechanism and the whole thing weighs in at about 57 lbs (two bike rack). I would need to take it off when parked in our driveway due to proximity of a sidewalk crossing the drive. That weight is manageable.

I'll bide my time a bit longer before ordering anything and see what else I can learn on this whole subject, as we don't get our B van until the Fall anyway!

Brian.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by Wingeezer

Still trying to decide how to deal with our bikes on the 170" WB Sprinter.

The latest rear rack I have looked at is the RockyMounts Backstage 2.

It has an integrated swing mechanism. I do want the ability to access the back doors, especially when sleeping in the van.

If the bikes are on, my thought was to unlatch the mechanism, but not swing the bikes fully aside - I figured that opening the door in an emergency would just swing the bikes away as needed. It doesn't look teh need much effort from videos I saw.

I would likely try to position some sort of padding at the contact point to avoid paint damage if we ever needed to get out this way - but then in an emergency a scratch would be a small price to pay in any event!

The rack is rated for 60lb bikes (ebikes?) and appears pretty substantially made on a
2" drawbar. Our bikes weigh 26lbs

Because the website did not specify, I emailed them about use on a 170" WB sprinter.

The reply I received advised ok on either the 144 and 170, but not recommended on the XL version.

I believe earlier in this thread it was mentioned that someone was using this rack and was happy with it.

I liked the fact that it is fully integrated with its own swing mechanism and the whole thing weighs in at about 57 lbs (two bike rack). I would need to take it off when parked in our driveway due to proximity of a sidewalk crossing the drive. That weight is manageable.

I'll bide my time a bit longer before ordering anything and see what else I can learn on this whole subject, as we don't get our B van until the Fall anyway!

Brian.

OK... I would advise you to call Steven Pokorski at Rocky Mounts and explain to him that you are considering putting this on a Sprinter 3500.... 170 inch wheelbase RV.... they would not warranty the product for me...

[eric1514]

I don’t want read every page here again but is there a reason you don’t want to use a Fiamma rear door mounted rack?

[<<B-Guy>>]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

OK... I would advise you to call Steven Pokorski at Rocky Mounts and explain to him that you are considering putting this on a Sprinter 3500.... 170 inch wheelbase RV.... they would not warranty the product for me...

Hi RS1,

Perhaps they have reconsidered since your contact!?

I emailed them very recently and did specifically mention use on a 17O" Wheel base Sprinter. - In fact, I drew to their attention to the fact that I had "Second hand info" indicating that some other manufacturers did not support use of their products on that version of the Sprinter so that I wanted to ensure they were ok with it on the Rockymount Backstage 2.

By the way, did you ever contact Swagman with respect to the various models they produce and advertise specifically as "RV Approved?"

As an RV'er for over 45 years, I know that for sure there are a great many RV's with a Much longer rear overhang than that of the Sprinter 170"WB 3500.

Perhaps that could be a solution that might work for you, if you would still like to take your bikes along on your travels.

Best regards ........ Brian.

[<<B-Guy>>]

Originally Posted by eric1514

I don’t want read every page here again but is there a reason you don’t want to use a Fiamma rear door mounted rack?

Hi Eric,

I have seen it and I'm sure it could be a possibility, looks to be a nice product.

I think the only reasons I preferred a hitch mounted bike rack are:

(a) Familiarity - that is all I have ever used for many many years, and never had the slightest problem with any of them. Mostly used on the front of trucks though, another possibility I have not entirely discarded for the Sprinter - not keen to be pulling off the grill and entire bumper assembly to install the hitch receiver though.

(b) I do have some concern over distortion/damage to the sheet metal of the door - not that I have heard issues in the is regard

(c) As per (b) with respect to door hardware and hinges.

(d) It looks to carry the bikes fairly high on the door, and I am a little old geezer going on 76!

(e) From what I have read, I am still unclear as to whether you need to be drilling holes in the door - not sure I'd want to be doing that on a brand new van! Some say yes, some say no, the instructions make mention of having to drill holes (4 I think it said) for security bolts.

(f) We are really tight for space in our driveway due to it being crossed by a sidewalk, so I only planned on putting the rack on the van when we are ready to leave on a trip. I think the Fiamma sticks out another 10 inches or so when folded up, probably would still be ok given that the bumper likely sticks out further, but something i would need to look into as I don't imagine you'd want to be putting it on and off as you could with a hitch rack.

Do you have the Fiamma? For how long? Any pros and cons to offer?

I guess if I went that route, one advantage would be that I could make a small custom luggage rack to carry via the hitch receiver for a small portable bbq, ground mat and folding chairs to save trying to find space inside for these more bulky yet not heavy items!

I'm still not entirely fixated on any solution yet - but no rush as I don't even have the van yet.

Already traded in the Airstream and truck though, so no RV'ing for us until at least September - Fall colors tour maybe!?

Thanks ............ Brian

[<<B-Guy>>]

Hi again Adv. RS1 !

Well, I checked my original email to Rockymounts and discovered that I had only specified that our van would be a 170" WB - not extended, but I had not specified 3500.

I didn't mention 3500, as at the time I thought that only the 3500 van came in 170" WB.

A bit more checking and I learned that you an also have 2500 with 170" WB.

So in light of your comment, I emailed Rockymounts back again to clarify, and this time, got the same response that you did - i.e. "You can use it on a 3500 / 170, but the warranty will be void."

So I guess I will have to look more into the Swagman "RV approved" racks uness you already have!

I did really want a swing hitch. My "Mrs" is concerned about not having the back doors of the van blocked if we are sleeping overnight at a truck stop!

I did email Wilco Offroad some time back for details of their "Hitchswing" mechanism - sold without a rack telling them that I would install it on a MB 3500 170"wb van.

They told me at that time that it was in fact originally designed around the MB Sprinter. I had specified that ours was a 3500 170'WB Sprinter and that as long as ours had a 2" receiver then I was "Good to go."

Their Hitchswing seems a pretty substantial piece of gear and on its own (with no rack installed), weighs more that the entire Rockymount swinging bike rack.

Hopefully I can get something sorted out that won't void any warranties as - like you - I worry about these things, maybe too much!

As Eric has mentioned, I suppose there is still the Fiamma to consider, but I think I would prefer a hitch mounted rack if possible.

Brian.

[eric1514]

Wingeezer,

Yes, I have a Fiamma bike rack on the rear of my van.

a) Familiarity. It's a bike rack like many others. It just happens to be attached to the door and not the hitch. It is a pretty standard platform type rack.

b,c & e) The rack on my van is clamped onto the door edges where the door is strongest along the pinch weld, not in the center where it is thin skinned. It is not held on with screws/bolts through the door although some installations are done that way, also. If mine was, it wouldn't concern me in the least. There are many holes cut in my van and if the holes are painted, I don't foresee any problems on down the road. The bulk of the weight is still carried by the clamps on the door edges.

Fiamma has been making and selling these racks for many years. I think if there was a problem with door skins and hinges, the issue would have come up. I've heard nothing in any Travato or Promaster forums about door issues. I don't know about Sprinters. The door affixing hardware is also marketed by Fiamma to hold various cargo carriers they make.

d) The rack can hold bikes in an upper or lower position. I need a small 18" step stool to put my bikes on the rack in the upper position. The platform is 60" off the ground. In the lower position, the platforms are 46" inches in the air. I keep mine in the upper position and the difficulty is in attaching the clamps to the bike. The platforms take all the weight once the bike is up. My bikes are in the 25lb range.

f) The rack extends about 6" beyond my rear bumper. I have a Promaster van. The rack is removable from its attachment hardware but it's not something I would do all the time. It takes about 10 minutes.

Cons. It takes some strength to lift your bike up onto the rack and it's a one man job. My wife helps steady the bike while I attach the clamp to the seat post, but two people can't lift the bike. It's awkward.

I don't leave the frame clamps or wheel clamps on the rack unless I'm leaving with my bikes. I don't want them stolen and the sun is not kind to red plastic parts and rubber straps. It only takes a couple minutes to put the clamps back on as I have their position marked.

I bang my head with the rack a lot when closing the rear door when there is no bike mounted. I've take to opening the rack and using it as a door handle to close the door. But I usually have to hit myself on the back of the head, first.

Pros. I don't have to find a place in my garage for the rack and swing arm when it's not attached to the van. And I'll bet that rack and swing arm weighs a hell of a lot more than a bike.

My van is effectively not any longer with bikes on the back. The extra length is carried up high.

My bikes are more secure from folks touching stuff and safer in rear end collisions even in parking lots.

The rack moves with the door. No unlatching necessary.

The receiver is free to use for towing or cargo. If I'm going camping for a while I load up a Stowaway carrier.

[<<B-Guy>>]

Originally Posted by eric1514

Wingeezer,

Yes, I have a Fiamma bike rack on the rear of my van.

a) Familiarity. It's a bike rack like many others. It just happens to be attached to the door and not the hitch. It is a pretty standard platform type rack.

b,c & e) The rack on my van is clamped onto the door edges where the door is strongest along the pinch weld, not in the center where it is thin skinned. It is not held on with screws/bolts through the door although some installations are done that way, also. If mine was, it wouldn't concern me in the least. There are many holes cut in my van and if the holes are painted, I don't foresee any problems on down the road. The bulk of the weight is still carried by the clamps on the door edges.

Fiamma has been making and selling these racks for many years. I think if there was a problem with door skins and hinges, the issue would have come up. I've heard nothing in any Travato or Promaster forums about door issues. I don't know about Sprinters. The door affixing hardware is also marketed by Fiamma to hold various cargo carriers they make.

d) The rack can hold bikes in an upper or lower position. I need a small 18" step stool to put my bikes on the rack in the upper position. The platform is 60" off the ground. In the lower position, the platforms are 46" inches in the air. I keep mine in the upper position and the difficulty is in attaching the clamps to the bike. The platforms take all the weight once the bike is up. My bikes are in the 25lb range.

f) The rack extends about 6" beyond my rear bumper. I have a Promaster van. The rack is removable from its attachment hardware but it's not something I would do all the time. It takes about 10 minutes.

Cons. It takes some strength to lift your bike up onto the rack and it's a one man job. My wife helps steady the bike while I attach the clamp to the seat post, but two people can't lift the bike. It's awkward.

I don't leave the frame clamps or wheel clamps on the rack unless I'm leaving with my bikes. I don't want them stolen and the sun is not kind to red plastic parts and rubber straps. It only takes a couple minutes to put the clamps back on as I have their position marked.

I bang my head with the rack a lot when closing the rear door when there is no bike mounted. I've take to opening the rack and using it as a door handle to close the door. But I usually have to hit myself on the back of the head, first.

Pros. I don't have to find a place in my garage for the rack and swing arm when it's not attached to the van. And I'll bet that rack and swing arm weighs a hell of a lot more than a bike.

My van is effectively not any longer with bikes on the back. The extra length is carried up high.

My bikes are more secure from folks touching stuff and safer in rear end collisions even in parking lots.

The rack moves with the door. No unlatching necessary.

The receiver is free to use for towing or cargo. If I'm going camping for a while I load up a Stowaway carrier.

Many thanks Eric - very helpful, and I will look further into this option base don your info!

Do you use the high position mainly because of your Stowaway? Any other reason why not to use the lower position (other than being less in harms way as you mentioned) - I think it would be easier for me to deal with lower down!

What about the issue of drilling for security bolts - was that not something you had to do? I have heard that Fiamma's instructions are not the best! Also I suppose there may well be different mounting issues between MB and Promaster.

Thx again ........ Brian.

[eric1514]

Brian,

I didn't do the install. Winnebago did. Looking at the instruction PDF, it looks like it is very probable that there are 4 bolt holes drilled through the door. This is in addition to the four door-edge clamps. I don't mind a few extra holes in my van. They are hidden behind some clamps, which is why I have never seen them, and a large rubber seal keeps water out. If you've ever seen a Travato, there's a lot of holes added by Winnebago for things like heat, power, water, windows, antennae (2), A/C, vent, awning supports, outlets, cable, tank washer, portable solar, etc. A couple more is a big so what, for me.


I use the upper position mainly because of the Stowaway, although many times only the bikes are coming with me. If you had something other than the Stowaway or maybe the Sprinter is different, lower might work for you. Lower is easier. I'm 5'6" and I can perform all the hook up tasks standing on the ground in the lower position. Also on the Promaster, the lower position places the wheels in front of the right turn signal. I'd probably be OK but I really prefer the upper position for security reasons.


The first photo shows a bike in the lower position. The second show two bikes up high with the door open.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by eric1514

Brian,

I didn't do the install. Winnebago did. Looking at the instruction PDF, it looks like it is very probable that there are 4 bolt holes drilled through the door. This is in addition to the four door-edge clamps. I don't mind a few extra holes in my van. They are hidden behind some clamps, which is why I have never seen them, and a large rubber seal keeps water out. If you've ever seen a Travato, there's a lot of holes added by Winnebago for things like heat, power, water, windows, antennae (2), A/C, vent, awning supports, outlets, cable, tank washer, portable solar, etc. A couple more is a big so what, for me.


I use the upper position mainly because of the Stowaway, although many times only the bikes are coming with me. If you had something other than the Stowaway or maybe the Sprinter is different, lower might work for you. Lower is easier. I'm 5'6" and I can perform all the hook up tasks standing on the ground in the lower position. Also on the Promaster, the lower position places the wheels in front of the right turn signal. I'd probably be OK but I really prefer the upper position for security reasons.


The first photo shows a bike in the lower position. The second show two bikes up high with the door open.

It's a little high up for me.... I don't think I can handle that....

[Winston]

Here’s a slight permutation on the Fiamma rear door rack. This rack is made for Winnebago (in this case their ProMaster/Travato) and mounts to the passenger rear door, below the window, with 4 thru bolts. A large plastic bushing on the outside and steel reinforcing plates on the inside hold the rack to the door. There are no other clamps.

In addition to the obvious ability to swing the door for rear access without removing the bikes, we like this approach due to its low, below window mounting and the ability to easily remove the whole rack with four thumb screws. And before you panic that thieves would love this easy removal system, too, we replaced two of the thumbscrews with RAM locking screws.

[<<B-Guy>>]

I may have come up with another option today!

Been in touch with Hollywood Racks in Cal. who have supposedly been in the bike rack business since '73.

They tell me no problem at all with the MB 3500 170" WB. on there rack designs. They say that they sell many racks to Sprinter owners.

What looks especially attractive to me is an Hollywood platform-type rack capable of two 80lb Mountain bikes. We don't have mtn bikes - but that is tempting as one assumesit must be pretty hefty - and who knows, perhaps we could get ebikes!

As well, they sell an optional luggage rack that plugs in to the back of this rack. It is rated at something like 100lbs. if you have the bikes on - or you can put it on its own into a 2" receiver than the rating is 300lbs. Of course you need the hitch capacity for it, which I think the Sprinter has.

RAD eBikes apparently recommend Hollywood.

I contacted the Wendlands (They have podcasts/videos etc about Class B's) and in fact they use the Hollywood rack with two RAD ebikes on a Roadtrek XL andso far, o issues at all.

Advent. RS1 - Had you previously contacted Hollywood?

If so, I hope we don't have another situation wherein you were given contradictory information!! (Just kiddin' - you were correct last time about Rockymounts!)


Cheers ........ Brian.

[<<B-Guy>>]

Originally Posted by Winston

Here’s a slight permutation on the Fiamma rear door rack. This rack is made for Winnebago (in this case their ProMaster/Travato) and mounts to the passenger rear door, below the window, with 4 thru bolts. A large plastic bushing on the outside and steel reinforcing plates on the inside hold the rack to the door. There are no other clamps.

In addition to the obvious ability to swing the door for rear access without removing the bikes, we like this approach due to its low, below window mounting and the ability to easily remove the whole rack with four thumb screws. And before you panic that thieves would love this easy removal system, too, we replaced two of the thumbscrews with RAM locking screws.

Looks Good Winston - although I imagine this is strictly for Promaster.

I do wonder what Promaster (Or Sprinter in the case of Fiamma) think about these racks as I wouldn't have thought that their doors were designed with this sort of use in mind. Perhaps it has been all checked out and approved. That may well be the case, you'd think that major manufacturers would want to work that way.

Cheers ............. Brian.