Better information and the future of Ecotrek

[Davydd]

When is the date on the receivership that is either s--- or get off the pot to end all this speculating?

My speculation is if there is a positive outcome and Roadtrek remains as a brand the new ownership probably will not retain the Ecotrek system as configured and opt for a more simpler system that is available now and not 5 years down the road as the Wendlands now say.

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

We still have our 08 RS for sale and it will be interesting to see what price we end up getting for it...

I predict the price you get for your '08 will be affected little to none by the current RT situation. The brand new and very recent models will take a substantial hit in sales price. But I also predict that in 5-10 years that difference will disappear.

I say this because there are many out of business rv companies whose products are just as desireable and highly regarded as those from companies still in business. Pleasureway and Leisure Travel have discontinued many models, but it has not soured the values on those. Things come and go.

Once the warranty period expires (etreks being the possible exception), it will come down to condition and mileage more so than brand. Just my prediction and my hope.
.

[Knit]

Originally Posted by booster

We have a 2007 Roadtrek that we would not trade for anything we have seen and find it very sad that a great company was destroyed by a small group of people who were either totally incompetent, crooked, or both, IMO, so others will not get the chance to experience what we have.

So Roadtrek was perfect when you bought yours, but everything they have ever done since has been bad. They’ve made thousands of great class Bs since 2007. Only a fraction have the battery system you complain about non-stop.

[Knit]

Originally Posted by Davydd

When is the date on the receivership...

60 days from February 15th IIRC

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by Knit

60 days from February 15th IIRC

The report I recall said that there would be a 6 week period after Feb 15 where there would be a search for a buyer and if none found then the receiver would move into the next step. Not sure what the next step in Canada at that point??

[booster]

Originally Posted by Knit

So Roadtrek was perfect when you bought yours, but everything they have ever done since has been bad. They’ve made thousands of great class Bs since 2007. Only a fraction have the battery system you complain about non-stop.

No, what I said was we wouldn't want anything else. Ours was a near first off of model upgrade, at the beginning of the recession, and also when the new management had put their stamp on customer service, to the bad side. We had some normal type issues that one would expect of a new RV and a near first build of pretty major changes. If the repairs had been handled well, there would be no complaint at all about that stuff, although any problems are great to have. The fit and finish of ours was probably a bit lower than the older version, also, but tolerable, and after ours the quality kept getting noticeably worse in the visuals that you can see.



Of course not all of the units had the new electronics, nobody said that either, and certainly the old technology performed as it always did, bu that didn't help those that were hung out with new tech. The issues is that management blatantly lied to the potential customers about the system capabilities, chastised and booted anyone who questioned them from the websites they controlled and chased them around other forums trying to quiet them, and didn't support them besides when there where issues of not making the promised capabilities. Most certainly, the fit and finish deteriorated also, as we watched it happen on new units at the shows and dealers, but those are minor compared to system issues, even if it is not all units.



You seen to be just interested in a an insult match or fight here, for some reason. Why is your opinion that all has been rosy is fine and should be unquestioned and mine that there were some major issues, wrong, as they are both opinions? Misquoting and intentionally misstating things to create conflicts is really not what this forum is about.



This is not about your van being bad, or ours being something special, and as I have said many times the criticisms of Roadtrek products were not aimed at the brand or people other than the management that was, IMO, causing the issues. I have also repeated often that once any given issue is fixed, there are very, very, few people that are very happy with their Roadtreks.



This will all shake out in the end, and if the stars align Roadtrek may be reborn as a company of note, like it always had been before all this started. If there are criminal things, we know that when the are charged, if not it goes back to mismanagement from whomever you may think caused it. Companies of this type and market don't just go broke in a hot economy and when they are claiming to have long waits from demand. Something had to happen that caused it.

[Knit]

Originally Posted by booster

I have also repeated often that once any given issue is fixed, there are very, very, few people that are very happy with their Roadtreks.
it.

I and many others love our Roadtrek’s after your pristine 2007. Stop trampling on newer Roadtrek’s than yours all because of some imagined conspiracy against everything except what you own.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Knit

I and many others love our Roadtrek’s after your pristine 2007. Stop trampling on newer Roadtrek’s than yours all because of some imagined conspiracy against everything except what you own.

You obviously didn't read my previous post or chose not to understand it.



Don't you get tired of just repeating the same old lines?



I will very plainly say one thing. Nobody here should be able to tell anyone else their OPINIONS are wrong. Disagree, sure. Give evidence, yep.



[QUOTE ]Stop trampling on newer Roadtrek’s than yours all because of some imagined conspiracy against everything except what you own [/QUOTE]



This is a totally inappropriate statement, and there is no place for it on a forum that is supposed to be for helping people, which we have done for many years here.

[markopolo]

Knit - suppressing a problem or information about problems doesn't help anyone in the end. You are probably upset about your Roadtrek or that EHGNA has been placed in receivership and likely worried about future repairs and parts availability for your unit. You're probably worried that its value might drop. You seem very upset and that is understandable. Your anger is misdirected IMO.

The depth of knowledge on this forum is incredible. Booster in particular has an extraordinary grasp on many subject matters.

If you are looking to hang out with folks who only praise things then this is not the place for you. You will continue to get upset here I'm sure.

Problems can be fixed but you still need to know about the problem to get it fixed. We just had someone post the other day that he was completely unaware of the problems that had occurred and was caught off guard that his brand new rig had those same problems and was unusable. Even though it is unclear at this time that another Roadtrek will ever be manufactured it is still important that the problems are known so that folks buying used rigs can make sure that they don't get stuck with a huge repair bill.

I recall that Booster's brand new Roadtrek came off the dealer lot with two near end of life batteries (ruined batteries) because the dealer hadn't kept them charged. That it itself is not unusual. Neither Roadtrek, the battery manufacturer or the dealer would step up to take care of the end customer though. Booster's sharing of that experience no doubt made a few other folks insist on getting new batteries if needed before closing the deal. By sharing his misfortune other folks benefited and saved money.

[RossWilliams]

Originally Posted by Davydd

When is the date on the receivership that is either s--- or get off the pot to end all this speculating?

My speculation is if there is a positive outcome and Roadtrek remains as a brand the new ownership probably will not retain the Ecotrek system as configured and opt for a more simpler system that is available now and not 5 years down the road as the Wendlands now say.

The receivership filing said they had six weeks to find a buyer as a going concern.

As for the Ecotrek system, I would expect that depends on the market. Lithium is the future and there are a lot of early adopters out there who are ready to buy it. The new owners will also have clear numbers on the real extent of the problems and whether they are continiuing with current models, which none of us do.

[TerrierTude]

Here's the list of people Erwin Hymer is stiffing. Among the usual parts and components manufacturers are a lot of individuals, what looks like small bakeries and groceries, and independent contractors like Dan Neeley.

List of Hymer Creditors:
https://www.alvarezandmarsal.com/…/a...-_creditor_li…
Including familiar names like MW.

[wincrasher]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

The receivership filing said they had six weeks to find a buyer as a going concern.

As for the Ecotrek system, I would expect that depends on the market. Lithium is the future and there are a lot of early adopters out there who are ready to buy it. The new owners will also have clear numbers on the real extent of the problems and whether they are continiuing with current models, which none of us do.

if you think alittle about what is facing a new owner of Roadtrek, there will be many challenges. RV production is a very cash intensive business. Even after you get over the hurdles of buying the company, you are going to need a sizeable cash cushion to get going - my guess is 10-20 million USD.

first, you are going to be facing industry suppliers in every category that got stiffed by Roadtrek - all the big players like Truma, Suburban, Coleman, etc. that you now want to do business with. So probably they will have to be pay in advance or cash on delivery type supply agreements. Especially the chassis suppliers - that would get expensive rather quick.

second, they will have to weigh which is the more economical way to go - continue with their in-house lithium system, or go with a supplied system like from Xantrax, Victron or Volta or some other. Considering the inventory costs, I'd bet they would abandon their in-house system and go with something from a vendor. You would also be able to offload the warranty costs onto that vendor as well - something Roadtrek/Hymer should have done over a year ago.

[MobileCabin]

Wincrasher,

I agree about the move to a respected vendor like Volta. If a new owner of the RT component of the former HymerNA could keep everything close to the pre-meltdown price point but with a Volta system, I think it would attract customers. If they could come up with an upgrade path to Volta for those with current lithium systems, that might also create some much needed goodwill.

[booster]

Of course this is all assuming that someone buys Roadtrek, which is far from certain.



They could also go back to basics for a while like Pleasureway has with just some drop in lithiums or even AGM like Leisure is still doing, until they get back up to speed. Most of the existing models would likely be easy switch to AGM, or already have the option so very little engineering cost.



I think it is more likely that the way the Roadtrek name is again on the market is if an existing RV maker buys the name and maybe inventory and produces it along with their existing stuff.



Time will tell, the clock is ticking.

[RossWilliams]

Originally Posted by TerrierTude

Here's the list of people Erwin Hymer is stiffing. Among the usual parts and components manufacturers are a lot of individuals, what looks like small bakeries and groceries, and independent contractors like Dan Neeley.

List of Hymer Creditors:
https://www.alvarezandmarsal.com/…/a...-_creditor_li…
Including familiar names like MW.

I hate to say this, but who do you think gets stiffed in bankruptcy. Hint - its usually not the bank. They have collateral. Its the guys that provide services and bill for them. But EGHNA isn't in bankruptcy yet. If the company returns any value to its owners, then those bills will have to be paid first.

I suspect the biggest issue is going to be those debts to EHG, now Thor. They were structured as loans, but they came from the company's owner. I am not sure how Canadian bankruptcy law treats those.

Whoever buys EHGNA is going to have to infuse cash into the operation. They had $1 million per week payroll when they closed.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

I suspect the biggest issue is going to be those debts to EHG, now Thor.

What are you referring to here? I am unaware of anybody involved owing anything to Thor.

[B Eventually]

Here's the list of people the Hymer family is stiffing. Among the usual parts and components manufacturers are a lot of individuals, what looks like small bakeries and groceries, and independent contractors like Dan Neeley.

List of Hymer Creditors:
https://www.alvarezandmarsal.com/…/a...-_creditor_li…
Including familiar names like MW.

I fixed it for you.

[RossWilliams]

Originally Posted by avanti

What are you referring to here? I am unaware of anybody involved owing anything to Thor.

I may have misunderstood, but the receivership documents indicated EHG had made loans to EHGNA. I assume, if that is the case, those debts are now owed to Thor. Or, put another way, Thor is EHGNA's largest creditor. But that could be totally wrong.

update: According to the (incomplete) creditor list EHGNA owes EHG $191 million. The other creditors total about $82 million and the company assets have a book value of $121 million. Absent its debt to EHG, apparently EHGNA was solvent.

[Knit]

Originally Posted by markopolo

Knit - suppressing a problem or information about problems doesn't help anyone in the end. You are probably upset about your Roadtrek or that EHGNA has been placed in receivership and likely worried about future repairs and parts availability for your unit. You're probably worried that its value might drop. You seem very upset and that is understandable. Your anger is misdirected IMO.

The depth of knowledge on this forum is incredible. Booster in particular has an extraordinary grasp on many subject matters.

My Roadtrek is out of warranty. And as you know, a majority of the things that break are off the shelf parts. Value impact to me is minimal as I anticipate keeping it for a long time.

I have read many posts by Booster and find them useful and reliable. Right up until the word Roadtrek/EHGNA is mentioned where the rant about management and Etrek is sure to be mentioned again.

[markopolo]

Creditor list: https://www.alvarezandmarsal.com/sit..._listing_2.pdf

and https://www.alvarezandmarsal.com/con...tice-creditors


Those links should work ....