Best Compressor Fridge Recommendations 2005 Roadtrek 190 Versatile

[themexicandoctor]

It seems that everyone that is super competent in practical matters, have wrapped their refrigerator units in extra outside insulation achieving a temperature reduction of 10 degrees on average.

And yet most of the fridges I have found (I looked at everything that fit & almost fit, dont allow me with the existing cabinetry to do so other than the Isotherm Cruise 85 which is going to require a lot of cabinetry, approx 2-4 hours worth including the venting, blocking, etc of Marine Carpebter quality work.

I will not ask the question of whether or not the extra insulation is worth it but three questions;

1. Where do you get the right insulation & what do you recommend?

2. I am learning towards the Vitrifrigo C115 only because its marine quality, available to pick up today,, known specs (the nebulous 360 watts), but it probably won't fit by 1/8 & I cannot wrap it.

Then the Isotherm 85 (lots of wrap) & the Novakool R3800 (miniscule wrap).

3. Don't they make them sufficiently insulated at the factory or does the wrapping simply make them far more efficient in our Roadtreks?

[booster]

Originally Posted by themexicandoctor

It seems that everyone that is super competent in practical matters, have wrapped their refrigerator units in extra outside insulation achieving a temperature reduction of 10 degrees on average.

And yet most of the fridges I have found (I looked at everything that fit & almost fit, dont allow me with the existing cabinetry to do so other than the Isotherm Cruise 85 which is going to require a lot of cabinetry, approx 2-4 hours worth including the venting, blocking, etc of Marine Carpebter quality work.

I will not ask the question of whether or not the extra insulation is worth it but three questions;

1. Where do you get the right insulation & what do you recommend?

2. I am learning towards the Vitrifrigo C115 only because its marine quality, available to pick up today,, known specs (the nebulous 360 watts), but it probably won't fit by 1/8 & I cannot wrap it.

Then the Isotherm 85 (lots of wrap) & the Novakool R3800 (miniscule wrap).

3. Don't they make them sufficiently insulated at the factory or does the wrapping simply make them far more efficient in our Roadtreks?

The manufacturers have to thread the needle of limited space for the frigs which limits size, desired extra capacity, cost, and efficiency, so they are well insulated but great insulation. Front door models aren't as well insulated as the chest frigs as they are marketed toward the max efficiency crowd. There are savings with more insulation but we are probably talking 5 or so amp hours per day, maybe a bit more if it is very hot, so not like it is going to save adding a battery or anything like that.


The insulation is quite easy to use and readily available at home stores like Home Depot. I use 1/2" think foil faced urethane board which have a very high insulation value compared to styrofoam. You can cut it with a knife or score and break like sheet rock. To put it together you use no fasteners, just the aluminum duct tape which is very strong and sticky. I think it took me about 30-40 minutes to insulate and make the duct for our frig, once I figured out what I needed to do.


The Ventrifigo is likely a very good frig, but you will still need to do some work in the venting area to make it work properly, I think.

[themexicandoctor]

Thank you Booster - its the quality answer I expected.

Going to make another couple of calls - as it is, when I get up close & personal with the Dometic as it is without moving the fridge out, it appears that I will have to (if I go eith the Vitrifrigo C115IBD4F-1/see photos;

1. Cut the piece of wood out inside the Roadtrek cabinet that upper piece of wood out that divides the Utensil Drawer & the top of fridge all the way back.

My concern is weakening the cabinetry structure?

And because of the width, install the Vitrifrigo without any frame because without pulling the fridge out, do I have enough space for the Fridge at top (& the width) with the slight curvature of the outer Chevy steel frame - unless I have the Fridge sticking an extra inch into the aisle. Two major concerns.

2. Then try to fit a different flange/frame to hold the fridge in place. Medium concern.

3. Take a slice off or two off the bottom of the itensil drawer. Minor concern.

ANY OPINIONS?

Here are the measurements again;

Here are the RM2354 details;
Overall product depth 22 3/4
Overall product height 30 3/16 *
Overall product width 21 7/8 *
Net weight 63.94 lbs
Recess depth 21.34
Recess height 29.76
Recess width 20.51

Vitrifrigo C115
Overall width (In.) 23 1/8 * =2 inches
Overall height (In.) 31 5/8 * = 1 & 1/2
Overall depth (In.) 21 7/8

*height issue
* width issue
*when using Vitrifrigo Frame, without the frame it just involves removing that timber shelf between the fridge & utensil drawer

[themexicandoctor]

PLEASE DISREGARD THE UPPER POST ONLY.

Despite all the experts at Vitrifrigo suggesting this unit would fit, NO IT DOESNT because not only is it too tall, its too wide when I look at the existing cutout dimensions that Dometic provide .

I was
getting confused by the outer dimensions versus the existing cut out (not physically measured because I haven't pulled out the fridge).

Back to the drawing board.

If any of you have owned either the Novakool, Vitrifrigo or Isotherm I would love to hear your experience from real world amp draw, temps involved & general day to day use.

[GallenH]

I'm a bit confused. What I'm seeing is that the cabinet for the Vitrifrigo would fit into the opening vacated by the Dometic but the wall to the right of your current fridge would not allow the extra width of the Vitrifrigo's front flange. Is that correct?

[themexicandoctor]

Originally Posted by GallenH

I'm a bit confused. What I'm seeing is that the cabinet for the Vitrifrigo would fit into the opening vacated by the Dometic but the wall to the right of your current fridge would not allow the extra width of the Vitrifrigo's front flange. Is that correct?

When I look at the Recess (think of the existing space that the cabinet is cut out to), of the Dometic fridge is only 20 & 1/2 Wide versus the 21 & 7/8 of the Vitrifrigo withOUT the flange (with the flange its 23 & 1/.

For a moment I was looking at Overall Product Width of the Dometic which is actually just the outside flange.

If I could cut the cabinet wider I would but there is absolutely no wiggle room on either side, not even 1/4 inch.

[themexicandoctor]

https://www.indelwebastomarine.com/u...e-100-classic/

Has anyone had any experience with this model, the Cruise 100 Classic - it has a different* cooling system than others & the fins are on top of the unit;

"The CR 100 differentiates itself with air ducts and fan ventilated compressor which permits circulation even in tight installations."

And it fits at 29.3 H 19.1 W & 17.9 D into my space of 29.76 H 20.51 W & 21.34 D.

[themexicandoctor]

For Booster & Others,

Only Isotherm print general* wattage usage of thier units in a 24 hour period ie; for the Cruise 85 its 380 watts & for the Cruise 100 its 400 watts.

But West Marine publishes this for the 85;
Amperage 3 Amps at 12 Volts; 1.5 Amps at 24 Volts; 1.2 Amps at 120 Volts

*when using the ISEC Add On, you can see 30-50% savings (additional $173)

These are general conditions, must be some standard.

And 400 watts at 12 volts is 33amps?

With Vitrifrigo they publish a term they call Nomimal Consumption & their figure is for the C115 3.74 amps/45 watts.

Novakool doesn't produce any figures but the Amperage Running of 2.2amps for the R3800 & then it jumps to 4.4 for the R4500

[InterBlog]

General comment, given that multiple fridges are under consideration here --

Be aware also that certain models are rumored to have very high failure rates due to the burn-out of circuit traces. You may have encountered that in your research, but I can't recall it mentioned on this thread. Research each model to see if that's a potential factor for that model.

For example, there has been plenty of bellowing about Norcold on other forums. Reportedly, the issue is that the removal of lead from solder allowed for oxidation which, in turn, forms "tin whiskers" that lead to short circuits, equipment failures, and possible fires.

One poster anecdotally reported that the Norcold failure rate was 80% at one point. I can neither confirm nor deny that statistic. I can neither confirm nor deny whether the problematic components are also used in other brands.

[booster]

Originally Posted by themexicandoctor

For Booster & Others,

Only Isotherm print general* wattage usage of thier units in a 24 hour period ie; for the Cruise 85 its 380 watts & for the Cruise 100 its 400 watts.

But West Marine publishes this for the 85;
Amperage 3 Amps at 12 Volts; 1.5 Amps at 24 Volts; 1.2 Amps at 120 Volts

*when using the ISEC Add On, you can see 30-50% savings (additional $173)

These are general conditions, must be some standard.

And 400 watts at 12 volts is 33amps?

With Vitrifrigo they publish a term they call Nomimal Consumption & their figure is for the C115 3.74 amps/45 watts.

Novakool doesn't produce any figures but the Amperage Running of 2.2amps for the R3800 & then it jumps to 4.4 for the R4500

IMO, most of those specs are dodging so they don't have to give the actual usage over time.


They can get away with calling the amperage average because the running amps will vary some over the day of use because the environmental conditions vary over that day. Warmer or cooler air on the condenser and or evaporator will change the running amps, but it is not an indicator of how much power will be used in a day.


I think the Isotherm data you give will be the best way to look at how the numbers relate. Lets take the Cruise 85.


If you use the running amps of 3 amps from West Marine as what it used all the time, you would use 72ah per day (24X3). This is 864 watt hours (72X12).



The Isotherm 24 hour usage is mentioned at 400 watts, but I would guess it really says watt hours, so that is how I will use it. 400 watt hours over a 24 hr period gives an average watt hours per hour of 16.7 watt hours per hour (400 divided by 24). Which is an average running amperage of 1.4 amps (16.7 divided by 12). That 1.4 amps would mean you would use 33 amp hours per day. You can get it directly by dividing the 24 hour watt hour rating by 12 at 33.3ah per day. This is right about at where our 85 runs in warmer weather, as a confirmation.


This would mean that the 85 would be actually running and using the 3 amps (running amps) 47% of the time (1.4/3=.47) Duty cycle is often used as the term for running time %.



None of the others give you a 24 hour tested usage, so you don't know how much they will be running, just how much power they use while running. The Vitrifigo at 3.74 amps average running spec could use any where from 0 amp hours per day to 89.8ah per day based on how much of the time it ran, so not a useful spec for energy use.


If you look at the Novacool, they say 2.2 running amps, but remember this is very likely the exact same compressor that is used in the other two frigs, so why is the amp rating so low compared to the others? I think what they have done is choose the slowest speed and best conditions to rate it, so it looks good on paper to customers who are comparing running amps. It very likely would either wind up running all the time or using more running amps in the real world of RV use. So again, pretty useless information for trying to make any decision on energy use.



We are all familiar with vehicle mileage ratings, which are determined by testing in identical conditions under identical procedures, on a dynamometer. They do this so the actually mean something for comparison to each other. The same is true for residential frigs which give a controlled conditions test that yields a cost per year to run number. That is the kind of data we need to compare specs on these frigs also, but most manufacturers don't want you to see those test numbers unless they are better than the other brands, I think, so they make up "alternate ratings" to confuse things and make themselves look better.


This thread also again points out the importance of keeping the units of power and energy correct, as in amps vs amp hour and watts vs watt hours. If not listed correctly, the information can become very confusing to others looking at it. And, yes, the manufacturers play that game too, with Roadtrek of old being the premier offender.

[booster]

Here is a statement of the test conditions and spec reference that Isotherm uses to get the 24 hour power use rating they list for those frigs.


Power consumption W / 24 h in operation on 12 Volt with +5 °C in the refrigeration space, ambient temperature +25 °C according to the Standards ISO 15502:2005 and EN 153:2


It would be interesting to send that statement to the other manufacturers and ask for the same data. My bet would be that they have that information, but that you may not be able to get it, but without it you cannot do any reasonable comparison of the units.

[themexicandoctor]

That is Two YESES from I ...

[themexicandoctor]

I was going to start a new thread called; Best Compressor Fridge for Roadtrek 190

But I won't, its too confusing so instead I am going to post here the details of the 3 best units I believe, will fit in our space without spending money, time & energy on reconfiguring our cabinetry.

And hat I discovered after 5 days of going backwards & forwards with Manufacturers, Dealers & Distributors, almost ordering them until discovering that "NO, THEY ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT FIT IN THE SPACE WE ROADTREK 190 OWNERS HAVE, 1999 to 2005 ..." & probably later years.

Forget the outer dimensions, the key measurements we need to know are;

Height 29.76 inches Width 20.5 Depth 21.34

On my 2005, you can take out a piece of timber that runs horizontally from above the fridge at 30 1/2 & below the utensil drawer to gain half an inch. I would be concerned about affecting the structure integrity without this bracing board.

If you also cut shorter the bottom of your utensil drawer end/face plate (where you pull on the knob) & cut shorter the top of the same face plate & also in the process take the drawers out & raise the drawer guides you can probably steal another 1/4 inch - no more & you will surely lose the utility of that slide out board which gives you more prep space.

BUT YOU CANNOT MAKE THE CABINET ANY WIDER - IF THE FRIDGE YOU WANT IS OVER 20.5, PRAYING, LUBE, SALESPEOPLE'S PROMISES, BLACK MAGIC & GRUNT WILL NOT MAKE THE CABINET ANY WIDER.

To the right is the cabinet wall that goes all the way up & to the left, is the center divider which affects heater placement, structural integrity, etc.

Again, this pertains to 1999 to 2005 & possibly later model Roadtrek 190's only.

If you have any recommendations, please leave them on this thread for others and or message me - and please keep up your recommendations for DC Compressors over here because after all, despite what manufacturers of many RV fridges believe, The World we choose as RVer's isn't perfectly flat...

[themexicandoctor]

I hope this helps other owners out there, saving you time & effort.

Dometic RM2354 Fridge Cut Out Dimensions (the true space you have to work with before you have to make Cabinetry changes - I have changed them to a fraction)
Height 29 3/4 Width 20 1/2 Depth 21.34

Novakool R3800 3.5 cubic feet at 2.2amps*
Height 28 3/8 Width 20 1/4 Depth 18

Novakool R4500 4.2 cubic feet at 4.4amps*
Height 28 3/8 Width 20 1/4 Depth 21

Isotherm Cruise 100 Classic 3.5 cubic feet at 400 watts*
Height 29.3 Width 19.1 Depth 20.5

*for a moment, put the electrical draw aside, many people with at least 200 watts of solar, good batteries & a reasonable charge controller seem to be having no issue with electrical drain & like all RV equipment but especially the fridge, the more successful you are at improving ventilation, the better your unit will run & less power drawn.

Here are links to Novakool R3800 & R4500 which use very simple technology, its all analog & from what I gather in my research, very robust. Plus; Stuart the salesperson is very organised, prompt & deliberate in his presentation, the others less so. Lead time is typically 5-6 weeks after payment.
Nova Kool, refrigerators, freezers, Marine, RV, Truck

Here is the Isotherm Cruise 100 Classic & this isnt the top of the line modern tech of the new Isotherms but it still comes with the optional ISEC Power Saving Module which supposedly saves on average of 30-50% electrical consumption. At the same time, Sportsmobile have been buying these by the pallet load every month, 20 plus at a time for the last 7 or so years. The Classic's feature which attracts buyers is; The CR 100 differentiates itself with air ducts and fan ventilated compressor which permits circulation even in tight installations. Which for us Class B owners is a super positive.
https://www.indelwebastomarine.com/u...e-100-classic/

Now for all the other units out there, there are other Novakool's, Isotherm's & Vitrifrigo's out there that are bigger & wont fit our cabinetry & smaller that will, but they represent substantial decrease in cubic feet.

Novakool have always been there but for the Marine industry, Isotherm & Vitrifrigo have been at the lead forever technically - always a good sign.

I know Booster has a smaller 85 Cruise unit that is 3 cubic feet for many years that is performing well plus in the space, he has insulated it really well as found a few more inches for space underneath.

The Vitrifrigo units are a great deal investment wise, the technology is different & they automatically come with an AC / DC module.

However the biggest Vitrifrigo that would fit is the C90IBD4-F with 3.1 cubic feet & 3.3amps which will fit but only if you do not use their mounting flange then it is only 19 1/8 W.

And then there are Norcold* & Dometic who are making the CRX Line of compressor fridges but the biggest unit that will fit our cabinetry is a CRX 65U that is almost 8 inches shorter but the 2.3 cubic feet capacity is probably too much of a hurdle for most of us & they simply don't make anything nothing larger because they are too wide.

The Dometic info online looks great. Great marketing.

But I personally would never personally buy a Norcold, a history of failures.

*I didnt check the Norcold only because of the above.

[themexicandoctor]

Gap between the top of the fridge, the bottom of the timber that goes under the utensil cupboard & the 20 1/2 Width.

I will say that when I took the module off & the air was able to blow flow there was such a hot draught of the air from the back of the fridge into the cabinet.

And you can also see the closeup of the outside upper grill from inside where I think putting a temperature controlled fan to suck the hot air out during the summer might work because either the Novakool motor down below or the Isotherrm motor up top have their own fan that blows when the compressor runs.

I do know with either unit, there will be much more space behind the unit for fan arrangement as well as keeping the back of the unit a little further away from the hot skin of the Roadtrek in summer.

[themexicandoctor]

Here is the horizontal board that runs from the back of the wall all the way to the front, under the cabinet - trust me when I say that the Vitrifrigo C115IBD4F-1 at $1050 & 4.2 Cubic Feet was the ideal unit but again for us 1999-2005 plus (onwards) it was owners it was at least 1/8 inch too tall & 3/4 of an inch too wide WITHOUT the frame).

[themexicandoctor]

Here is the piece of wood above the fridge & below the utensil drawer missing from last post

[themexicandoctor]

By the way, in talking with friends who live in houses, choosing the correct fridge sizes can be just as problematic & for many, also require cabinetry work.

[themexicandoctor]

BOOSTER,

Just got this info from ISOTHERM USA in case you want to invest $129 retrofitting your 85 with this device;



The ISEC only works with DC only electronic modules, so it will not work with an AC/DC one.

The ITC works with both DC only modules and AC/DC modules, specifically the new generation SeCOP control modules 101N0212 (DC only) and 101N510 (AC/DC) for BD35F / BD50F compressors. All new Isotherm fridges come equipped with the new generation SeCOP modules.

The ITC is essentially the newer, updated version of the ASU, and does have the same “Soft start-up” built into it. Newer units that originally came with the ASU, now come with the ITC.

It is not necessary to add either of these components, but there is added benefits when these are installed and used properly. Our literature state you can get energy savings from 30-50%.

[booster]

Originally Posted by themexicandoctor

BOOSTER,

Just got this info from ISOTHERM USA in case you want to invest $129 retrofitting your 85 with this device;



The ISEC only works with DC only electronic modules, so it will not work with an AC/DC one.

The ITC works with both DC only modules and AC/DC modules, specifically the new generation SeCOP control modules 101N0212 (DC only) and 101N510 (AC/DC) for BD35F / BD50F compressors. All new Isotherm fridges come equipped with the new generation SeCOP modules.

The ITC is essentially the newer, updated version of the ASU, and does have the same “Soft start-up” built into it. Newer units that originally came with the ASU, now come with the ITC.

It is not necessary to add either of these components, but there is added benefits when these are installed and used properly. Our literature state you can get energy savings from 30-50%.

I wish I could, as I looked at that about a year ago. It won't work on a compressor control board as old as the one on our 85, and I think I would buy a whole new frig before spending for a board and the the upgrade thermocountrol.