Batteries gone ...

[themexicandoctor]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

I can't see where cooling air flows, is fan pushing air down?, hot air goes up so is the fan preventing convection flow?

I wondered that perhaps it is drawing already super heated air from outside & then blowing it at the rear of the fridge but its not cooling the condenser per se.

Everyone else had it blowing air against the condenser & cooling fins.

[themexicandoctor]

Originally Posted by avanti

It is worth noting that the theoretically most efficient way to run a cooling system is to arrange for it to be sized such that it just barely runs continuously. The reason is that starting up a compressor takes significantly more power than running one. This is why installing an oversized A/C is considered bad form in the HVAC world. A huge A/C that runs infrequently is horribly inefficient. It is also less effective as a dehumidifier, since it can't remove moisture when it isn't running. So, having an A/C that never turns off is not in itself a bad thing.

The problem, of course, is that it is very difficult to follow this advice in a situation in which the ambient temperature fluctuates wildly. You tend to either be in a situation in which you are running continuously and not keeping up, or shutting down due to excessive cooling.

A sufficiently agile variable-capacity compressor could address this problem: You would use temperature feedback to continuously modulate an always-running compressor, rather than a Bang-Bang on/off thermostat. Some systems attempt to approximate this. I really don't know how well they do or what the practical difficulties turn out to be.

Excellent point.

But then my unit is running 62amp hours per 24 hour period & 31 or so at night when there is no solar to mitigate the draw.

My Solar probably cannot keep up & I do not have the use of Shore Power & running a generator, not possible in an urban setting.

Notwithstanding that this might be an Electrical Issue because as the Engineer stated, its theoretically impossible for you to use 52 amps in a 12 hour period even though your system shows the data, in a unit that only draws 2.2amps unless it is constantly being switched on & off.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by themexicandoctor

I wondered that perhaps it is drawing already super heated air from outside & then blowing it at the rear of the fridge but its not cooling the condenser per se.

Everyone else had it blowing air against the condenser & cooling fins.

This picture shows air being blown downwards on the opposite side of the compressor/condenser, I think; it is possible that the condenser is “cooking in its own juice” instead of hot air being vented to outside.

Can you make a picture from further away, or wider angle, so we can see full outside opening?

I agree with Avanti, measuring of temperatures in condenser area will very likely identify if condenser cooling is the problem. Do you have access to an IR camera?

[themexicandoctor]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

This picture shows air being blown downwards on the opposite side of the compressor/condenser, I think; it is possible that the condenser is “cooking in its own juice” instead of hot air being vented to outside.

Can you make a picture from further away, or wider angle, so we can see full outside opening?

I agree with Avanti, measuring of temperatures in condenser area will very likely identify if condenser cooling is the problem. Do you have access to an IR camera?

Do these help, any other angles you recommend.

No I do not have a IR Camera but I could move one of my Sensorpush units back there.

I am not an engineer but I did send them a question as to the fan placement at the day of unboxing. To me, it seems it blew the air directly into the back of the lower part of the fridge & not the condenser.

[themexicandoctor]

I want to give them the benefit of the doubt as to other main considerations they wanted me to examine first.

Plus I don't think my installer would knowingly attach undersized wires.

But the more I think about it, it seems my original suspicion about the fan placement was warranted.

[booster]

Yep, bad fan placement and baffling. In a 190 like that you need to baffle it properly to isolate the top and bottom vents from each other and direct the air to the compressor and condenser, either with or without a fan.



A fan blowing hot air down is going to just draw back in the hot air. The fan should be blowing up towards the upper vent to get the air out.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by themexicandoctor

Do you have a link as to what you recommend if in fact this is also part of the issue? I will repeat it was running all night even with the ac on.

Here's the one I use:

fan controller.jpg

Just think of it as an example, though. There are dozens of them and availability changes all the time. Do a search on Google or Amazon to find out what is currently available.

I don't like to post eBay links--they expire too quickly.

[themexicandoctor]

I hope to have my rig at the fridge installer by the am.

Unfortunately he is not a Victron expert so the chargibg part of the puzzle will have to be divined by another person.

But he can certainly determine wire gauge & any faults with the negative side & then I will delve further into the fan placement but for a simple person, it does seem odd as it is simply blowing on nothing of consequence - perhaps it works for everyone but Roadtrek 190 owners?

[GeorgeRa]

A potential simple solution would be to flip the fan 180 degree on two upper screws so it blows air upwards and bend their brackets up so fan is as horizontal is it is possible. This change should force moving air upwards from the lower air entry to the upper exit.

[themexicandoctor]

Thank you Gentlemen.

I usually start at the most simple end of the horse.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by themexicandoctor

I hope to have my rig at the fridge installer by the am.

Unfortunately he is not a Victron expert so the chargibg part of the puzzle will have to be divined by another person.

But he can certainly determine wire gauge & any faults with the negative side & then I will delve further into the fan placement but for a simple person, it does seem odd as it is simply blowing on nothing of consequence - perhaps it works for everyone but Roadtrek 190 owners?

You will likely need new battery cables. I had some bad experience with RV folks crimping battery lugs, some using a pliers or a wire cutter or a hammer. There are special tools for crimping, hydraulic or mechanical crimpers are good. One way to test a good crimp it to try to pull out the crimped lug from the cable, good crimp will survive.

[peteco]

Originally Posted by themexicandoctor

Do these help, any other angles you recommend.

No I do not have a IR Camera but I could move one of my Sensorpush units back there.

I am not an engineer but I did send them a question as to the fan placement at the day of unboxing. To me, it seems it blew the air directly into the back of the lower part of the fridge & not the condenser.

Where is the condenser? I don’t see it in any of the pictures. The fan should be blowing air across it.

[themexicandoctor]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

A potential simple solution would be to flip the fan 180 degree on two upper screws so it blows air upwards and bend their brackets up so fan is as horizontal is it is possible. This change should force moving air upwards from the lower air entry to the upper exit.

This I will do, only after agreement with the Novakool Engineers.

After scuttling the other what is.

There is plenty of space to reposition it.

At the beginning I thought perhaps having the fan blow against the condenser might cause it to not perform because it needed to reach a certain temperature & the Novakool Engineering Team had already worked this out.

But on all other DC units, including previous Novakool units it would appear that the fan blows across the compressor unit.

I have sent these links to Novakool.

[themexicandoctor]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

You will likely need new battery cables. I had some bad experience with RV folks crimping battery lugs, some using a pliers or a wire cutter or a hammer. There are special tools for crimping, hydraulic or mechanical crimpers are good. One way to test a good crimp it to try to pull out the crimped lug from the cable, good crimp will survive.

This too I will ask him to check.

When it comes to fridges or anything RV, this guy knows his stuff. There are people lined up outside his place who have been loyal customers of him & his father (deceased), for 50 plus years.

[themexicandoctor]

Originally Posted by peteco

Where is the condenser? I don’t see it in any of the pictures. The fan should be blowing air across it.

This photo is clearer.

Looking at the photo I can see that the electrical block (?), that splits the space up doesn't allow for fan driven air to even touch the condenser but for a swirling effect of drawing the air up?

[Bud]

Maybe it would assist in understanding where a fan gets it's air. We know by looking where it is blowing, where it's pointed.

The fan gets the air from the path of least resistance. The fan gets the air from the path of least resistance.

Look at that fan, Way Too Much air is coming from inside the cabinet going round and round. How much air from inside feeds the fan vs outside when it is 100 degrees outside. You need to get the air from outside, cool whatever and get it out of the van, that simple. Someone it seems did not understand when installing the thing.

As booster mentioned two different and separate things need the same thing. NO LOOPING of hot air around and around blowing hot air on the hot stuff.

Bud

[GeorgeRa]

This is the condenser. Just wonder if this fan is helping at all. A uniform flow of air across the condenser is needed. 2 vertical pancake fans located on the bottom would enhance convection flow.

[themexicandoctor]

On a positive note, early this am, probably while I was asleep, the Batteries reached FULL Status.

Plus I have enjoyed the benefits of the AC Unit, which is a rare joy for me indeed.

Our rigs are Heat Magnets, my Sensorpush telling me that regularly my;

1. Front Cab area is around 115%

2. The area underneath the bed where my inverter is situated is usually at 100%

3. That the rear area where the bed is, even with the Fantasfic Fan at 1 or 2, is averaging 105% if the Generator & or Inverter is running.

4. Whereas the fridge has to run around 34% average.

[themexicandoctor]

I hear you Gentlemen.

Working on it.

And I do realise unless I can blow air conditiomed cold air on the condenser, bringing in air that is 116% outside, not accounting for the increased heat off the surface be it concrete or the road, any DC Unit is going to struggle.

As it is, in La Mirada CA, its 97% outside & 73% at night.

[Bud]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

This is the condenser. Just wonder if this fan is helping at all. A uniform flow of air across the condenser is needed. 2 vertical pancake fans located on the bottom would enhance convection flow.

George, I wonder too.

This is simple. Bring the air in the bottom, don't let it start not leaving the top vent looping around inside the van getting hotter. A one way flow without looping around inside, whatever it takes to do that.