Are used RVs getting more expensive with the increased price of new RVs????

[Ceci]

I’m not surprised that the sales are down so far. I’m a “late boomer”. I’d love to get into a class b before I retire. But my needs are not met by the currently “mass produced” rigs.

I see vans with way too much complexity: macerator pumps, full plumbing/holding tanks, push button seat reclining, TV antennas etc. The expectation seems to be to sell to people staying in campgrounds or who have lots of money and/or time. I don’t want to hunt for propane, dump stations, have to run a generator, deal with repairing systems that are “needlessly” complex for my needs. I’ll wash my hair over the sink. Get a gym membership and shower there. Potty in a low tech composting toilet or even a bucket and toss it, if it’s legal, in a dumpster. I just don’t get all the luxury except when it comes to electrical (I’m stuck working in the Southeast)

The DIY vans come closest to what this new market is wanting (except for the electrical; Volta and Xantrex).

I wonder if the DIY and custom conversion folks are cutting into sales?

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by Ceci

I’m not surprised that the sales are down so far. I’m a “late boomer”. I’d love to get into a class b before I retire. But my needs are not met by the currently “mass produced” rigs.

I see vans with way too much complexity: macerator pumps, full plumbing/holding tanks, push button seat reclining, TV antennas etc. The expectation seems to be to sell to people staying in campgrounds or who have lots of money and/or time. I don’t want to hunt for propane, dump stations, have to run a generator, deal with repairing systems that are “needlessly” complex for my needs. I’ll wash my hair over the sink. Get a gym membership and shower there. Potty in a low tech composting toilet or even a bucket and toss it, if it’s legal, in a dumpster. I just don’t get all the luxury except when it comes to electrical (I’m stuck working in the Southeast)

The DIY vans come closest to what this new market is wanting (except for the electrical; Volta and Xantrex).

I wonder if the DIY and custom conversion folks are cutting into sales?

I think you pretty much described "Bucky", Sue Valentine's Advanced RV. Sue is a full-timer who has downsized from a Class A and she know her stuff about living simply in a B van. No propane. No generator. Simple elegant, livable design. Composting toilet, but shower that doesn't intrude on livability. Functional bed/couch that doesn't rely on electronics. Advanced electrical needs that you don't have to sacrifice if you boondock. I'll let you review her photo gallery and two videos.

Bucky Photo Gallery

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qs2WLbKsxGw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zv7w..._0Qx9mRnrjhKag

[hepcat]

Originally Posted by Ceci

I’m not surprised that the sales are down so far. I’m a “late boomer”. I’d love to get into a class b before I retire. But my needs are not met by the currently “mass produced” rigs.

I see vans with way too much complexity: macerator pumps, full plumbing/holding tanks, push button seat reclining, TV antennas etc. The expectation seems to be to sell to people staying in campgrounds or who have lots of money and/or time. I don’t want to hunt for propane, dump stations, have to run a generator, deal with repairing systems that are “needlessly” complex for my needs. I’ll wash my hair over the sink. Get a gym membership and shower there. Potty in a low tech composting toilet or even a bucket and toss it, if it’s legal, in a dumpster. I just don’t get all the luxury except when it comes to electrical (I’m stuck working in the Southeast)

The DIY vans come closest to what this new market is wanting (except for the electrical; Volta and Xantrex).

I wonder if the DIY and custom conversion folks are cutting into sales?

I don't get the complex electrical... my perspective is much the same as yours, but propane and standard electrical systems are bone-head simple, safe, and easy to repair. Manual dump valves with gravity tanks function for YEARS and then when they need to be replaced, it's a matter of four screws rather than the complete disassembly of the under-chassis of the van to get to a macerator pump. My last van didn't have a shower... the current one came with one... but it's usable and doesn't take significantly more room than the toilet alone. Why do people think they need power window shades and TVs that power-retract into furniture, or power furniture? What's with eight switches to control the LED lighting? Why use LED fixtures when you can install $0.90 LED bulbs in a G4 halogen fixture? I don't get it either.

After sitting on a tech panel at the International Born Free Rally in Amana IA last month, the bulk of the questions from owners came from 2013 and newer coaches with complex, computerized electronics, solar panels, and inverters... none of which seems to be particularly reliable. Lithium batteries are expensive and dangerous. One man at the Born Free rally was on his fourth inverter... the third failed and he reported that when he found it, it was shooting flames out the side underneath his coach.

No, I'm happy with a $100 Group 29 wet-cell 12v RV battery that I can trace the wires to a mechanical switch when something fails. I'm perfectly competent to manually lower blinds. I don't care of the TV is in view when it's not on. Frankly my last B-Van didn't HAVE a TV and I never missed it. Not once in four years.

That said, it IS convenient to have a shower and toilet with tanks. It IS convenient to have a microwave, propane stove, propane water heater, and a generator. I turn the water heater on once in the morning and once in the evening (unless I'm showering which is infrequent as I generally use shower facilities as well.) I use the generator very infrequently, but when you need to run the roof air in a WalMart parking lot, it's a MARVELOUS luxury.

The best part is that for the most part, I can service those systems when they have issues myself, OR most any RV service can do it and have parts on hand. This new computerized stuff is still in the purview of programmers and electrical engineers... it's NOT user-servicable... and I've found VERY few RV places that have a clue about them, maintenance-wise... INCLUDING, for the most part, the RV manufacturers.

I'll stick with the tried-and-true stuff... thanks...

[dougbaty]

High cost of used Class Bs: One reason could be the shortage of affordable housing in major cities. If you are a 'temp' or contract worker, a camper van allows you to put a roof over your head (so to speak) within a short driving distance of your work site.

An old 'B' plus a gym membership allows people a way to work jobs that otherwise would be infeasible because of multi-hour commutes. Such old vans aren't driven long distances across the country, -just around town. They can be high mileage vehicles and still serve their 'new' purpose. My theory is that old class Bs are being sucked up by those who can't afford prevailing room rates but can park near the city if the vehicle is small.

Background: Google reports that the average price of a San Francisco hotel room has soared to $400. In one month of work you will pay at least $5,000 in charges for even a cut rate hotel. A $20,000 camper van starts to look like a bargain.

To the above I add that rental property is in short supply today and requires 1st & last $, and a 1 year lease. How many jobs today last a full year?
DB

[pasusan]

Originally Posted by Davydd

I think you pretty much described "Bucky", Sue Valentine's Advanced RV. Sue is a full-timer who has downsized from a Class A and she know her stuff about living simply in a B van. No propane. No generator. Simple elegant, livable design. Composting toilet, but shower that doesn't intrude on livability. Functional bed/couch that doesn't rely on electronics. Advanced electrical needs that you don't have to sacrifice if you boondock. I'll let you review her photo gallery and two videos.

Thanks for posting those!

There wasn't enough discussion about using the electrical items - microwave, A/C, water heater, fridge, hot plate (?), and furnace. How long will that stuff run and how long to charge back up with the solar? She says she can boondock for a month!

Love it though!

[cherubtravel]

Originally Posted by hepcat

Both Class A and Class B motorhomes are also down about 25%. In fact the entire industry appears to have shipped about 25% fewer RVs of all types so far this year. So, it would be interesting to know why demand is slowing for RVs of all types. Have we finally hit saturation? Is money tighter? Have the boomers bought all the RVs they want?

i say you hit the nail on the head.
the boomers have bought all the RVs they want, market is saturated.
the younger generations are not keen on RVs

[cherubtravel]

Originally Posted by hepcat

Why do people think they need power window shades and TVs that power-retract into furniture, or power furniture? What's with eight switches to control the LED lighting? Why use LED fixtures when you can install $0.90 LED bulbs in a G4 halogen fixture? I don't get it either.

tell me abt it.
i just want my lights in 1 color.
hot water and I am set.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by pasusan

Thanks for posting those!

There wasn't enough discussion about using the electrical items - microwave, A/C, water heater, fridge, hot plate (?), and furnace. How long will that stuff run and how long to charge back up with the solar? She says she can boondock for a month!

Love it though!

Sue Valentine has 828ah of lithium maganese phosphate batteries (LiFeMgPo4), a Xantrex Freedom 3012 3000 watt inverter and a Delco 330a second alternator. She has no solar panels, no Onan type generator and no propane. Her air conditioner is a Houghton which is considerably more energy efficient than most roof-top AC on the market.

I've had a similar system for 4-1/2 years so I feel can proxy answer you. Running the air conditioner depends but I could safely say more than 4 hours at a time without idling the engine. How much longer? I don't know. That's a subject with considerable speculation. I've gone on several 2-3 month trips without using my air conditioning at all. If you need it, you would need it more than just overnight and that means shore power. Knowing Sue it is probably not a primary concern or objective when full-timing and following the weather.

As far as electrical use you can park use your microwave, electrical induction cooktop, Keurig coffee pot (though I understand she doesn't have one) TV, lights, all 120V outlets, compressive refrigerator and just about anything else electrical that I missed, as transparent as if you are plugged into shore power or not, and have your inverter always on for up to 4 days parked and not idling the engine. If you turn your alternator off when not needing it you could extend your stay. I achieved up to about a week. Say close to a week boondocking without air conditioning, driving anywhere or idling your engine (for the second alternator charging.) If you had a regular black tank toilet and gray tank you probably will have to get up and go to replenish water and dump after that time. I have averaged about 12 days between dumps and replenishments but I have never stayed in one place where I had to use our plumbing facilities that intensely in boondocking. Sue has a composting toilet so water use is less.

There is no amount of solar that can top off 800ah of lithium batteries you could put on a Class B. Idling with a second alternator 15 minutes can replenish your batteries more than your solar panels can in an optimum sunny summer day. Driving every day for just under an hour will top lithium batteries with the electrical use mentioned. I have 420 watts of solar panels on my 24 foot extend Sprinter Class B and they contribute insignificantly. On a 19'-5" Sprinter it would be even more insignificant to where I would not need at all unless for outside storage with no shore power when not occupying the van.

The furnace and hot water (practically instant) is from the Espar diesel-fired heat exchanger. It runs off your chassis diesel tank in a Sprinter. I assume maybe there is a gasoline equivalent.

I guess you could park in BLM or national forest lands for up to a month boondocking. Water is the limiting factor. Electrical use would not be a factor. I can't imagine anyone parking and sitting for a month and most public lands have a 14 day limited stay anyway. That's not the nature of a Class B owner. If you normally drive, you will never have to rely on shore power or need to seek it.