Are Class B Transit's here to stay?

[Brodie66]

I have a 2016 Ford Transit Adventurer Okanagan Tribute (2017 Van Conversion). 6 cylinder. Rides like a charm.

[Brodie66]

I have a 2016 Ford Transit Conversion Van (2017). It's an Okanagan Tribute, Adventurer - 6 cylinder, with all the bells & whistles. I'm looking to sell.....

[Bud]

"I know that there's "more drama" with the Mercedes Benz Sprinter emissions, but, at 19-20 MPG... and the performance and driving responsiveness, yeah, I'm glad I got my Sprinter"

- "drama" Calling emissions control reliability drama is just like you.

- "performance" Calling the wimpiest engine in a RV van performance is just like you.

Bud

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by Bud

"I know that there's "more drama" with the Mercedes Benz Sprinter emissions, but, at 19-20 MPG... and the performance and driving responsiveness, yeah, I'm glad I got my Sprinter"

- "drama" Calling emissions control reliability drama is just like you.

- "performance" Calling the wimpiest engine in a RV van performance is just like you.

Bud

It's just the kinds of comments I would have expected from you...

Have you ever owned or even driven a Mercedes Benz Sprinter??

[@Michael]

[Ahem....]

On the topic of Transit Class B's:

The Russo's maintains a pretty accurate list of 'B' manufacturers, for which the Transit based ones are often custom upfitters without bathroom/showers.

As of now they list:

https://www.benchmarkvehicles.com
http://www.blueridgeadventurevehicles.com/
http://www.coachmenrv.com/
https://elkapitan.com
https://gtrv.com
https://www.modvans.com
https://www.new-west.com/
https://pleasureway.com (New)
https://sportsmobile.com
https://www.storytelleroverland.com
https://www.syncvans.com/vans
https://www.vanspecialties.com/
https://www.vandoit.com/
https://vanlifecustoms.com

They don't list the Okanagan Tribute.

It'd be interesting to see Ford bring the Big Nugget to North America.

[carlcavitt]

Starting in 2009, Ram engineers started worked on adapting Fiat vans to American needs. The Ram ProMaster, based on the front-wheel-drive Fiat Ducato, was the first jointly developed product of Ram Truck and Fiat Professional. Production was at Chrysler’s Satillo (Mexico) plant, because it is in two overlapping free trade zones.

[RossWilliams]

You may be missing some options by not considering Sprinter based RV's depending on how you plan to use it. If you are looking for something to take on weekend trips to the beach and tailgating, then a Transit/Roadmaster gas engine model is probably a better option. I think both will be around for a long time. Roadtrek is now talking about a Transit based model next year and the new owner, Rapido, already has one in Europe.

On the other hand, if you plan to travel 20-30,000 miles per year the Sprinter may give you better service and the various models offer a lot of options. Our Roadtrek sprinter has no propane with diesel hot water and heat and everything else runs off electricity. The batteries are recharged by an underhood generator and solar panel. We have had it a year and basically never plugged in to shore power except for a couple winter camping trips where below zero(F) temperatures severely reduced the battery capacity.

I don't know of any non-sprinter version that would give us that same set of features. There are probably other similar feature sets that are hard to find in the Promaster/Transit world unless you go the custom upfitter route.

One of the reasons you see so many Sprinters out there is probably because they are more expensive to start with and don't wear out. When people are done using them they sell them. Having $5000 rig sitting in driveway unused is one thing, having a $50,000 rig is quite another. While that exaggerates the difference, the reality is that the diesel Sprinters are more expensive and hold their value better.

[BillsPaseo]

The diesel being better for higher mileage is an outdated argument. Modern gas engines are good for 300K+ miles between rebuilds, and at 300K, you can drop in a remanufactured replacement for around $4-6k and be good for another 200K+ at which time the rest of the vehicle will be ready for the crusher, no matter what brand of vehicle your talking about.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

You may be missing some options by not considering Sprinter based RV's depending on how you plan to use it. If you are looking for something to take on weekend trips to the beach and tailgating, then a Transit/Roadmaster gas engine model is probably a better option...

On the other hand, if you plan to travel 20-30,000 miles per year the Sprinter may give you better service

Heh. I was thinking just the opposite:
You can make it back from the beach with "10 starts remaining". 15,000 miles away in the middle of nowhere, not so much.

[RossWilliams]

The point was that buying a diesel to sit in the driveway was not a good idea.

Modern gas engines are good for 300K+ miles between rebuilds

I am sure there are some that last that long. I haven't seen any for sale with that many miles. The superior build quality of sprinters is not limited to the diesel engine.

[BillsPaseo]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

The superior build quality of sprinters is not limited to the diesel engine.

That's debatable. The 2002 to 2009 Sprinters are notorious for body rot. Too soon to know if the newer models will have similar issues...

[BillsPaseo]

Another factor to consider when comparing Sprinter to Transit is cost of routine maintenance and also scheduling to get that service done.

In my area, I have 3 Ford dealerships within 15 minutes of my house, but only 1 Mercedes dealership. The Mercedes dealership is notorious for being scheduled out for weeks, even for simple stuff like an oil change. Meanwhile, this week, I made an appointment via the website of my local Ford dealership on Tuesday to have an oil change done on Saturday. Appointment time was 10AM, I was out of there at 11AM, total cost was $61 with tax. Free coffee and wifi in their very comfortable waiting room...

[oilman]

Originally Posted by avanti

Heh. I was thinking just the opposite:
You can make it back from the beach with "10 starts remaining". 15,000 miles away in the middle of nowhere, not so much.

Reminds me of one of my trips . After a string of emission related break downs with my Sprinter I was determined to get through this one trip without spending time at a dealer.

Well I made it to Florida from N.Y. and then like clockwork I got the 10 starts message so I just parked it and rented a car. I saved my 10 starts for the trip home. All you have to do is plan a little more carefully.

But I will say breaking down in the middle of nowhere Utah was definatly more of a challange.

[booster]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

The point was that buying a diesel to sit in the driveway was not a good idea.



I am sure there are some that last that long. I haven't seen any for sale with that many miles. The superior build quality of sprinters is not limited to the diesel engine.

I would suggest that you do some watching of vehicle sales websites, particularly the ones that sell older, more "used" vehicles, like Craigslist.



I have been watching Craigslist for many years as a way to keep a feel for how brands, models, etc of vehicles survive over times, and where there trouble spots are. In the Minneapolis version there is at least on seller that specializes in used service, delivery, passenger, light trucks and vans so you can see a lot of them in one place.


On the vans used for class b RVs, not necessarily the converted ones, I can say with good confidence that I haven't seen an appreciable difference between the Sprinters, Ford E350, or the Chevy Express/GMC Savanna 3500 models.



300K miles is pretty rare on all of them, but does happen, and is just as likely to be on the original engines with all of them. Rarely do I see any of them with a non rebuilt transmission, though. All three brands also show up with early engine replacements in them also, with them usually being in the low 100K mile range. Several Sprinters on Craigslist have been under 100K miles, though, and we just heard of two 5 cylinder Sprinters that were under 100K. Most of the vans of all brands that are showing up for low prices are because they are worn out at somewhere in high 200-250K mile range from what I have seen.


I can recall a Sprinter that had nearly 400K on it, but it didn't state if it was original engine or not. I have seen Ford and Chevy pickups at over 400K that claimed original engines. Of course all of these are the outliers and not typical.


I have said many times that it isn't really the difference between diesel and gas that makes and engine last longer or shorter. It is the difference in the design life used in creating that engine that determines how well they hold up. "Normal" vehicles like cars, SUVs, and lighter duty trucks seem to be designed to last about 200K miles of average use at an average mileage per year. OTR trucks are designed at something like 800K miles and that is why they last that long.


I saw some articles a while back where there is a company making a gas school bus engine that is deigned like a diesel normally would be for that application. Turbo, low rpm range, huge torque, lower hp. Those that drove them said you would not know the difference between them and diesel. It sounded like they are aiming at the cold weather states where getting all the buses running after a long cold weekend can be a horrific adventure if you have 100 or more of them. Too new to know how they hold up yet.

[RossWilliams]

I owned a Fiat once. My local "foreign auto" mechanic refused to work on them. He said FIAT stood for "Fix It Again Tomorrow".

Brand debates are endless and mostly pointless. Ford? Chevy? Which is the better pickup. Who cares?

Limiting your choices based on internet bulletin board complaints is a mistake. People can have bad experiences with any vehicle and some of them will have strong opinions as a result.

[booster]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

I am sure there are some that last that long. I haven't seen any for sale with that many miles. The superior build quality of sprinters is not limited to the diesel engine.

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

Brand debates are endless and mostly pointless. Ford? Chevy? Which is the better pickup. Who cares?

Contradictory???

[avanti]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

Brand debates are endless and mostly pointless. Ford? Chevy? Which is the better pickup. Who cares?

Limiting your choices based on internet bulletin board complaints is a mistake. People can have bad experiences with any vehicle and some of them will have strong opinions as a result.

So, are you suggesting that there is no statistical difference in reliability across the various marques?

Or, are you suggesting that such differences exist but the Internet is not a useful tool in determining those differences?

Or what?

[Davydd]

Meh! My criteria is fixed.

Sprinters are still the best looking vans available and mimic some qualities of their luxury sedans though the recent 2019 upgrade has some mixed reviews in that I think they got a bit plainer. Design is a factor for me.

They have the best options, quality and above all safety features.

I haven't investigated it thoroughly but I think the Sprinter has the best load capacity and I know a Promaster couldn't duplicate what I want in tank capacities.

I plan on possibly buying one more van, a shorty Sprinter, and only Advanced RV will give me everything I want and extreme custom one at that of my design. They only build on the Sprinter platform. No brainer. Yeah, and I'm spoiled.

[Storysrvwego]

There are plenty of all three of these brands on the market today but as someone said, the Sprinter has been around a bit longer. The ProMaster lends to easier fitment from it's more-square cargo area and rear doors for home brew perhaps. Some people (not all) can find the front cabin of the Transit a bit more awkward to go into the coach or back. That totally depends literally on the persons physical makeup whether it is a bit awkward or a non-issue. Some people have a different ratio of upper torso to leg length. Some people have a different girth. And then as a separate issue entirely, some can find the lower dash console and the aisle space between the driver & passenger seat to be an issue with larger feet versus the Sprinter or PM dash and between seat & overhead shelf to be more forgiving for their bodies.

Please don't mistake this for beating up on the FORD. The Transit IS an excellent platform. And if/when the all wheel drive model comes to pass, that could be a feature for some travelers to make use of. And of course with a truck like chassis and heavier driveline to a rear axle, the Sprinter and Transit have a larger towing capacity advantage over the PM.

My wife and I travel to not take everything with us so. That is just us. We are older and want to be ahh, well, tourists these days. Camping, hiking, dune buggies, dirt bikes and dirt in general are behind us as a done that-been there. Enjoyed most of that a bunch. Now we travel to see North America and visit people we know all over the USA. So the PM 3500 EXT basis to our WINNEBAGO Travato is great for us. Transit or Sprinter could be your preferred and logical choice. I'd suspect if we did a Class B years earlier, Sprinter would have been just fine, besides the only real choice at one time for a Class B type.

I will add that we are very VERY happy with our WB Travato. Last trip garnered a 17.1 mpg average. We typically sail with a 15+ mpg result here in the West with a number of road climbs. This last trip was relatively same altitude the entire distance and back and no wind so it gives you an idea what is possible. My wife loves driving it so much, I rarely get to drive it. The V6 in the PM responds very well and the front wheel drive setup is a real joy to drive. You can tow with some limited capacity with a PM but if I really intended to do that, I would look at the Sprinter or Transit for sure as they both are better suited for higher capacity towing.

StorysRVwego

[rockymtnb]

Originally Posted by avanti

... IMO, for the RVer, reliability is more important than gas mileage, it is more important than being able to pass everybody else on the road going uphill, and it is certainly more important than the prestige of a three-sided star.

I think this is the critical issue, at least for those of us that travel to less populated scenic areas and don't have endless free time for repair delays.

As a current Sprinter owner I certainly appreciate the fuel mileage and other Sprinter benefits. But I'm hesitant to purchase another Sprinter based unit, at least until they make available a gas engine version of the 3500 series chassis.