Anyone out there who builds four season Class B vans?

[Santiago]

Originally Posted by avanti

Have you ever lived in a quality European RV?

No Avanti I have not and for the longest time wish the North American manufacturers followed in their manufacturing footprints.

It is because of what you described that I have to build my own. Sure it will be hand made piece by piece as you well described but at least I won't cut corners and make sure it's as good as it can be. When I see the interior components Euro RVs have I know they are engineered and manufactured to equal standards as automobiles, cameras, etc. Not piecemeal. I get it my friend.

What I mentioned earlier is that despite how an RV is built in North America, you can get a decent performing 4 season rig simply by choosing components and designing for 4 season using same chassis the Euros use. We don't see much of that likely because the demand isn't there. Simple example, want 4 season, water tank and house battery goes inside. Insulate a lot and add thermal breaks, etc, etc.

Santiago

[DUTCH in Atlanta]

Originally Posted by Santiago

In Europe, the B class builders use the same chassis we have here.

Santiago

Similar, but not the same. As an example, an MB Sprinter chassis built to US specs cannot be registered in the EU. Vice versa is also true.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Santiago

No Avanti I have not and for the longest time wish the North American manufacturers followed in their manufacturing footprints.

It is because of what you described that I have to build my own. Sure it will be hand made piece by piece as you well described but at least I won't cut corners and make sure it's as good as it can be. When I see the interior components Euro RVs have I know they are engineered and manufactured to equal standards as automobiles, cameras, etc. Not piecemeal. I get it my friend.

What I mentioned earlier is that despite how an RV is built in North America, you can get a decent performing 4 season rig simply by choosing components and designing for 4 season using same chassis the Euros use. We don't see much of that likely because the demand isn't there. Simple example, want 4 season, water tank and house battery goes inside. Insulate a lot and add thermal breaks, etc, etc.

Santiago

I completely agree with the above. I was only reacting to the implication that you could end up with basically the same thing. Looks like we agree that you can't, really.

I was very fortunate to get one of the last GWV Legends. Great West was known for their willingness to customize a special-order build to the customer's specifications. I took aggressive advantage of this: specifying custom modifications of the cabinetry, a seriously-upgraded electrical system, custom bed length, compressor fridge and many other mods. The van as delivered was a great starting point for the many mods I did myself post-delivery. Of these, one of the most significant was that I converted it to full 4-season use, using the hydronic-pipe-heating technique pioneered by ARV. It is still not up to European standards, but it is far better than anything I could have bought off the lot, or had built for me at any reasonable cost.

It is kind of sad that GWV is no longer around to serve this function. If I were starting today, I would most likely have to follow your lead into a full DIY custom build.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by Rebecca.B

... Somehow, I found the blog “wheeling it “ and check a post about European camper vans (10Ways European Motorhomes differ from US RVs). They are all winterized to -15C., have total insulation, double floor s, heated water and grey water holding tanks, total body insulation, double pane windows!! ...

Rebecca,
Thanks for mentioning the Wheelingit blog. Some good ideas in that post. Here is link to the post you mentioned:
https://wheelingit.us/2018/09/16/10-...r-from-us-rvs/

But the details in that blog post are for what we would call Class-C motorhomes. Making a Class-C with better insulation and double pane windows is easier than trying to do the same in a B-van. In the USA/Canada the best way to get a truly winter capable RV is to get a properly built trailer.

There are many available.
https://camperreport.com/best-cold-w...-extreme-cold/

There also after market upgrades typically called Arctic-Packages:
https://kirklandrvsales.com/rv-arcti...-outlast-cold/

Cheers,
- - Mike

[Santiago]

Originally Posted by DUTCH in Atlanta

Similar, but not the same. As an example, an MB Sprinter chassis built to US specs cannot be registered in the EU. Vice versa is also true.

Hi Dutch,

Yes the specs will differ for variety of reasons. EPA, DOT, etc come to mind. In the coach, they like 240vAC which is very nice. In the UK, they drive on the other side so drivers and passenger seats are swapped out, sliding door location, etc. Yes they are different in that regard. What I meant was that aside from a few inches here and there, styling sheet metal bumps and creases for each chassis brand, it's still the same steel van on both sides of the ocean that by DESIGN and with intent can be a three, four season or summer only RV.

I agree with Avanti, the Euro builds are much desired here by some of us but the regulations make that almost impossible and costly.

Santiago

[GeorgeRa]

Campers manufacturing in EU is very different than here, much closer to an automotive level. More effort and money are pumped to R&D and manufacturing automation and tooling upfront. For example plastic molding is used extensively between models making upfront costs for molding high but manufacturing is a “snap”.

I have seen a lot of campers fully equipped for winter camping, many of them traveling in Norway even in summer time.

My choice would be Adria Twin - https://www.adria-mobil.com/vans/twin

Before my own conversion I looked at all options and one of them was bringing one from EU by a very convoluted process.

1. Buy a camper van with an equivalent chassis being available in US, in 2013 only Sprinter and Crafter were possible options. Now we have Fiat.

2. Register one in EU.

3. Bring it for vacation to NA, many Europeans do that.

4. Transfer all inners to a NA registered van.

5. Scrap stripped to bones EU van.

It would be expensive but possible.

For winter this is a good one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34EmkUuhUpo

[mumkin]

Considering all the up-in-the-air issues with Roadtrek/Hymer right now, they have just introduced a new product at the big Florida show. The Roadtrek Haven on the Transit is being advertised as being 4 season.


Not sure if it is standard or an option.

[Knit]

Not stealthy, but the Winnebago Revel has useful four season features such as insulated and heated tanks and pipes. Batteries are outside though.

[VocalVirgo]

I know this is an old thread, but I thought if anyone reading it was looking for a builder to build a 4 Season van, I’d chime in. My van is 4 Season in that I carry water and don’t have any tanks outside of the van. It’s also insulated really well. However, I purposely kept my build simple so there would be less things to go wrong or break, and if something did, it was an easy replacement simply by going to a particular store or ordering the part on Amazon. I’m definitely the “KISS” kind of person. But my builder (TurfVan.com) builds truly 4 Season vans with all the fixin’s. Plumbing, heating, water, and air conditioning all on the inside (except for the air conditioner if you have a rooftop unit installed instead of a portable type). He also built my van so that if I want to upgrade it in the future, or sell it to someone who wants to upgrade it, can do so easily. That’s how we built my now sold (Thank GOD) nightmare Sportsmobile West van. And the girl who bought it is indeed adding propane, proper water tanks/plumbing and hot water. I had both vans built with the same simplicity in mind, because that’s what I wanted and what works for me.

So there are companies and private builders that build 4 Season vans, you just have to look/ask around.

Or you could go out and buy one of the (now defunct) Hymer vans (Sunlight, Axion, Banff) that have no insulation (!!) for cheap, lol. As of today, those POS vans are selling brand new (2019, loaded with everything) for $48,000. So you’d get no insulation AND no warranty, lol! (#SorryTooSoon?). Their quality and reliability was only 1 step below my Sportsmobile West van. #TrueStory.

The takeaway from this comment? Build your own, get it exactly how you want it and have it built by a really reliable and talented private builder. That was the smartest choice I made since I started the full time RV life. Get it done right so you can enjoy your travels! (And I hope we all do!)

[Jostalli]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

Campers manufacturing in EU is very different than here, much closer to an automotive level. More effort and money are pumped to R&D and manufacturing automation and tooling upfront. For example plastic molding is used extensively between models making upfront costs for molding high but manufacturing is a “snap”.

I have seen a lot of campers fully equipped for winter camping, many of them traveling in Norway even in summer time.

My choice would be Adria Twin - https://www.adria-mobil.com/vans/twin

Before my own conversion I looked at all options and one of them was bringing one from EU by a very convoluted process.

1. Buy a camper van with an equivalent chassis being available in US, in 2013 only Sprinter and Crafter were possible options. Now we have Fiat.

2. Register one in EU.

3. Bring it for vacation to NA, many Europeans do that.

4. Transfer all inners to a NA registered van.

5. Scrap stripped to bones EU van.

It would be expensive but possible.

For winter this is a good one:

Please explain how this could be done.

[Davydd]

I posted in this thread in 2017. Since, especially this year, we have boondocked overnighted in somewhere of -9F to -15F a few times with fresh water in the tank. I would consider our van four season. Advanced RV has improved the capability since with more water lines inside. We didn’t opt for any heating pads for the grey and black water tanks that were available. I think on our next van on order we will explore more capabilities. It is inevitable we will have to cold weather camp.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by Jostalli

Please explain how this could be done.

I see three issues, maybe not surmountable...

1. I am not sure that a US citizen can bring the EU RV into the US under the temporary permit that is used by non US citizens to travel for some set time period in the US. Could be doable, I don’t know...

2. Moving all of the installed material into a US model of the same van may seem simple but maybe no so simple if the cabinets are glued in place or if other components are difficult to remove. Reinstallation may have issues if it is not exactly the same model van which happens many times with vehicles that are produced worldwide and they are not always in sync in terms of the model changes.

3. What do you do with the EU van after you have stripped it? I don’t know anything about the legalities involved but if you want to sell it vs scrapping it at a big loss in $$ (not sure the process for scrapping a vehicle in the US on a temporary permit that requires you to get it out of the country by some date), who are you allowed to sell it to? No US citizen can buy it and get it registered over here. Drive it to some other country where you can sell it? Sell it to someone from another country and maybe they can transfer the temporary permit over?

As mentioned in the original post, the whole thing may be possible but not inexpensive...

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Jostalli

Please explain how this could be done.

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

I see three issues, maybe not surmountable...
1. I am not sure that a US citizen can bring the EU RV into the US under the temporary permit that is used by non US citizens to travel for some set time period in the US. Could be doable, I don’t know...
2. Moving all of the installed material into a US model of the same van may seem simple but maybe no so simple if the cabinets are glued in place or if other components are difficult to remove. Reinstallation may have issues if it is not exactly the same model van which happens many times with vehicles that are produced worldwide and they are not always in sync in terms of the model changes.
3. What do you do with the EU van after you have stripped it? I don’t know anything about the legalities involved but if you want to sell it vs scrapping it at a big loss in $$ (not sure the process for scrapping a vehicle in the US on a temporary permit that requires you to get it out of the country by some date), who are you allowed to sell it to? No US citizen can buy it and get it registered over here. Drive it to some other country where you can sell it? Sell it to someone from another country and maybe they can transfer the temporary permit over?
As mentioned in the original post, the whole thing may be possible but not inexpensive...

All good points. Registration in EU would most likely be necessary and for me it would be easier having a residence there. From talking with folks who brought their RV to US with a temporary permit about 3 months is the financial threshold for bringing their own or renting a unit in US. Europeans realized that camping in US is an absolute haven, and there is a trend there to come for extended vacation by either renting or bringing their own campers. Renting an US RV from EU is often 30% less expensive than from here, bulk folks I met were renting US RVs. This trend is mostly popular among French, Dutch, and Germans. Temporary permits are issued for one year maximum.

A few years ago, we camped in a private campground in the Monument Valley where I noticed a sign “To Shower” with attached sign “Douche”, so it must be popular.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

All good points. Registration in EU would most likely be necessary and for me it would be easier having a residence there. From talking with folks who brought their RV to US with a temporary permit about 3 months is the financial threshold for bringing their own or renting a unit in US. Europeans realized that camping in US is an absolute haven, and there is a trend there to come for extended vacation by either renting or bringing their own campers. Renting an US RV from EU is often 30% less expensive than from here, bulk folks I met were renting US RVs. This trend is mostly popular among French, Dutch, and Germans. Temporary permits are issued for one year maximum.

A few years ago, we camped in a private campground in the Monument Valley where I noticed a sign “To Shower” with attached sign “Douche”, so it must be popular.

We met a lot of Europeans on our trip to Alaska last year. Some bought a used RV or van or car, usually in Canada, some rented an RV, and there were some who had shipped their RV over under the 1 year permit for US travel. Several times we met expedition truck owners who had shipped to Halifax, crossed over Canada and up to Alaska, and were going to head to South America. With our style of expedition truck we get a lot of people who assume we are from Europe until they see our Florida license plate or hear us talk...

[Jostalli]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

All good points. Registration in EU would most likely be necessary and for me it would be easier having a residence there. From talking with folks who brought their RV to US with a temporary permit about 3 months is the financial threshold for bringing their own or renting a unit in US. Europeans realized that camping in US is an absolute haven, and there is a trend there to come for extended vacation by either renting or bringing their own campers. Renting an US RV from EU is often 30% less expensive than from here, bulk folks I met were renting US RVs. This trend is mostly popular among French, Dutch, and Germans. Temporary permits are issued for one year maximum.

A few years ago, we camped in a private campground in the Monument Valley where I noticed a sign “To Shower” with attached sign “Douche”, so it must be popular.

The answer is you cannot do what you said was possible. If you are a US citizen you cannot buy a new Adria Twin and bring it into the US. Foreigners who are driving their foreign plated vehicles in the US are using a temporary import permit. As a US citizen you cannot file for a temporary import permit to your own country.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Jostalli

The answer is you cannot do what you said was possible. If you are a US citizen you cannot buy a new Adria Twin and bring it into the US. Foreigners who are driving their foreign plated vehicles in the US are using a temporary import permit. As a US citizen you cannot file for a temporary import permit to your own country.

In my first post regarding 4 season Adria Twin I was not proposing this process for everyone, for me it would be possible but likely too difficult to justify do to its complexity and cost, but it was an option. Will it be possible for you, I have no clue.

There is however one way anyone could do it: buy a camper in EU, strip it, load a container with goodies, ship it to NA and junk/sell the van there. With recent B-class RVs’ costs going down in NA this adventure could be prohibitively expensive. My choice was to built my own with top notch equipment.

[Jostalli]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

In my first post regarding 4 season Adria Twin I was not proposing this process for everyone, for me it would be possible but likely too difficult to justify do to its complexity and cost, but it was an option. Will it be possible for you, I have no clue.

There is however one way anyone could do it: buy a camper in EU, strip it, load a container with goodies, ship it to NA and junk/sell the van there. With recent B-class RVs’ costs going down in NA this adventure could be prohibitively expensive. My choice was to built my own with top notch equipment.

My apologies. I should not have assumed you were a US citizen.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Jostalli

My apologies. I should not have assumed you were a US citizen.

I am, 3 month in EU 9 month in US, no apology needed.

[Jostalli]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

I am, 3 month in EU 9 month in US, no apology needed.

Then as a US citizen YOU cannot bring a new Adria Twin into the US.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Jostalli

Then as a US citizen YOU cannot bring a new Adria Twin into the US.

I don’t believe that this back and force arguing has value for this forum, if I couldn’t do it directly I would help a friend to have a great vacation, over and out.