Any updates on Hymer/Roadtrek/Carado future?

[avanti]

Yes, modern engines are a triumph of metallurgy, CAD, precision machining, and chemistry. I chuckle at the folks who second-guess the engineers when it comes to oil change intervals. The performance and longevity of these machines is, in my mind, ample evidence that the engineers know what they are doing. These technologies are so far beyond the point where the opinions of shade tree mechanics have any relevance whatsoever.

Of course, another modern miracle is the triumph over body rust. As others have mentioned, increases in engine life would have little relevance but for this. For those of us who owned cars in the 1970s, seeing 15 year old vehicles rust free is just amazing.

[booster]

Originally Posted by avanti

Yes, modern engines are a triumph of metallurgy, CAD, precision machining, and chemistry. I chuckle at the folks who second-guess the engineers when it comes to oil change intervals. The performance and longevity of these machines is, in my mind, ample evidence that the engineers know what they are doing. These technologies are so far beyond the point where the opinions of shade tree mechanics have any relevance whatsoever.

Of course, another modern miracle is the triumph over body rust. As others have mentioned, increases in engine life would have little relevance but for this. For those of us who owned cars in the 1970s, seeing 15 year old vehicles rust free is just amazing.

I have not had the opportunity to disassemble a new engine or long block to check all the dimensions and finishes, but it sure would be fun to do. The stuff I have read by those who have done it were very surprised by how good they were. Back in the day, you had to leave the bores very rough so they would wear the rings and themselves to a good mating surface. Of course this is also wear and shortens life, plus the material had to be made to wear. Now the finishes are much smoother and materials more wear resistant and they fit well right out of the box without a lot of wear needed. All the rest of the engine is similar.


I have always believed that getting a high end machining job and checking and assembling your own rebuilds was best, but now I think I would buy a factory new assembly instead if they are available. Everyone should be aware, though, that after a few years new engines may not be available, and the "factory" rebuilt ones are mass rebuilder engines of questionable quality in most cases. I would build my own before using a factory supplied rebuild.

[RossWilliams]

"For most people the economics favors gas."

Sure. Most people don't drive an RV very much. So the cheaper the engine and other motor vehicle components, the better. Which is why most people buy trailers.

[avanti]

The nightmare of owning and maintaining a modern DEF-equipped diesel emissions system so far outweighs any other consideration that might favor diesel vs petrol as to make the whole question moot, IMO.

I am one of the many, many diesel owners who thought that these engines were simply amazing until I began to experience the true implications of multiple "10 starts remaining" and limp-home failures while on important trips and far from a dealer. I have changed my tune, as have so many others.

Keep the nickels you save by owning diesel. Never again -- at least not if I can find a half-reasonable alternative.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by avanti

The nightmare of owning and maintaining a modern DEF-equipped diesel emissions system so far outweighs any other consideration that might favor diesel vs petrol as to make the whole question moot, IMO.

I am one of the many, many diesel owners who thought that these engines were simply amazing until I began to experience the true implications of multiple "10 starts remaining" and limp-home failures while on important trips and far from a dealer. I have changed my tune, as have so many others.

Keep the nickels you save by owning diesel. Never again -- at least not if I can find a half-reasonable alternative.

How many times have you experienced a limp home situation or been out of range for a Sprinter dealership?

I have to agree that not every Mercedes Benz dealership has the capability to service these and that's a problem.

I've only experienced the "countdown" one time.... before that I was noticing what seemingly was a larger than normal DEF consumption.... since the updated software and new emissions system replacement I haven't had any issues.

Regardless of how much you characterize it, the OM642 V6 turbo diesel is an amazing engine...

I'm sorry that you're disappointed ... don't you actually have the OM 651 FOUR cylinder..... I've heard many great things about that engine as well... Plus, you have better MPG...

Aside from the dealership network which could certainly be better, I have an independent mechanic who can do regular service, oil changes etc.

Good luck.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

How many times have you experienced a limp home situation or been out of range for a Sprinter dealership?

I have had THREE major trip-ruining incidents. I have been out of reasonable Sprinter service range countless times.

Worse, we can never again be comfortable on an adventurous trip. The prospect of an emissions event is like a Sword of Damocles over our heads. We have long planned an Alaska trip. I am now not certain that it would be prudent.

The Mercedes diesel emissions systems are a disgrace.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by avanti

The nightmare of owning and maintaining a modern DEF-equipped diesel emissions system so far outweighs any other consideration that might favor diesel vs petrol as to make the whole question moot, IMO.

I am one of the many, many diesel owners who thought that these engines were simply amazing until I began to experience the true implications of multiple "10 starts remaining" and limp-home failures while on important trips and far from a dealer. I have changed my tune, as have so many others.

Keep the nickels you save by owning diesel. Never again -- at least not if I can find a half-reasonable alternative.

Indeed, modern diesel have a very sophisticated NOx and particulates emission control. But it seems as the learning curve for Mercedes was just a little too steep. As far as I know Mercedes is on the fifth revision of NOx sensors and they just introduced fluid level gauges for DEF tanks. Just to be sure not to run dry I am adding DEF frequently and never more than 2 gal. DEF to full (my van has 3.2-gal tank) but with a gauge I could add less frequently. Not having a level gauge in my 2013 is shocking.

Any time new technology is introduced it comes with pains, in 1980 we had a Toyota Celica with the catalytic converter and the exhaust air pump, this graphite vanes air pump was a major pain, snap belts, noisy just nightmare.

I don’t know which company started using Urea Injection/SCR and DPF on diesels, if it was Mercedes Benz their learning curve was steep indeed. As the diesel emission control technology becomes more mature reliability will go up and I have no doubt that current Sprinters have emission systems more reliable than in older ones, but, replacing Urea Injection System and a SCR and a DPF (no engine nor tranny) will likely cost more than a complete powertrain from GM.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by avanti

I have had THREE major trip-ruining incidents. I have been out of reasonable Sprinter service range countless times.

Worse, we can never again be comfortable on an adventurous trip. The prospect of an emissions event is like a Sword of Damocles over our heads. We have long planned an Alaska trip. I am now not certain that it would be prudent.

The Mercedes diesel emissions systems are a disgrace.

To top off or wait for the DEF light?

I noticed that the last time I drove 700 miles... I hardly used an entire 1/2 gallon of DEF...

Mercedes Benz says don't keep it filled up..it will "fool the system" and cause it to overheat.....

But... without a DEF gauge...it makes me nervous about running too low.....

So, keep it topped off or wait for the light????

Your thoughts????

[RossWilliams]

"I've only experienced the "countdown" one time.... before that I was noticing what seemingly was a larger than normal DEF consumption.... since the updated software and new emissions system replacement I haven't had any issues."

In the eyes of its critics, that's once too often. I think that is especially true for old diesel users which just ran and ran with no problems except for the trail of asthma sufferers they left in their exhaust.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

SO.. do you think it's better to keep it topped off or wait for the light????

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

...............................

Mercedes Benz says don't keep it filled up..it will "fool the system" and cause it to overheat.....

..................................

Cause it to overheat, overheat what? This just doesn’t make any sense. I recently talked to the service manager from Midland Texas who told me to fill DEF every fuel fill.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

Cause it to overheat, overheat what? This just doesn’t make any sense. I recently talked to the service manager from Midland Texas who told me to fill DEF every fuel fill.

George, I understand. I think I'd rather be safe and not run low...

Thanks.. yeah, I'm leaning towards topping up.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

Cause it to overheat, overheat what? This just doesn’t make any sense. I recently talked to the service manager from Midland Texas who told me to fill DEF every fuel fill.

Do you have any idea what they are talking about?

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

Do you have any idea what they are talking about?

If you are referring to overheating (of what?) by keeping DEF tank full, I am absolutely clueless, it just makes no sense, perhaps it is an Internet wisdom.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

If you are referring to overheating (of what?) by keeping DEF tank full, I am absolutely clueless, it just makes no sense, perhaps it is an Internet wisdom.

Not sure I understand why they painted a dark picture.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

Not sure I understand why they painted a dark picture.

Whom are you referring to?

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

Whom are you referring to?

The service advisor at the local Mercedes Benz dealership...I don't trust that person anymore..... gave me some bad advice.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

My personal mechanic just advised me that topping up the fluid is absolutely no problem ��.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

Indeed, modern diesel have a very sophisticated NOx and particulates emission control. But it seems as the learning curve for Mercedes was just a little too steep. As far as I know Mercedes is on the fifth revision of NOx sensors and they just introduced fluid level gauges for DEF tanks. Just to be sure not to run dry I am adding DEF frequently and never more than 2 gal. DEF to full (my van has 3.2-gal tank) but with a gauge I could add less frequently. Not having a level gauge in my 2013 is shocking. ...


...I don’t know which company started using Urea Injection/SCR and DPF on diesels, if it was Mercedes Benz their learning curve was steep indeed. ...

I agree that the Mercedes implementation of SCR/DEF systems has been shocking for a company that prides itself on a tradition of automotive diesel engines. IMHO - they really underestimated the complexity and user information required to make these systems work properly.

You might be interested to know that the SCR/DEF system was invented in 1957 by a USA company, Engelhard Corporation, later bought by German chemical manufacturer BASF for $US5 billion in 2006.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Select...ytic_reduction

Cummins was one of the first to adapt the system for vehicles. In 2006, Cummins launched its midrange engine certified to the Euro 4 standard using SCR for commercial vehicle applications in Europe.

https://www.cumminsfiltration.com/si...es/MB10033.pdf

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

I agree that the Mercedes implementation of SCR/DEF systems has been shocking for a company that prides itself on a tradition of automotive diesel engines. IMHO - they really underestimated the complexity and user information required to make these systems work properly.

You might be interested to know that the SCR/DEF system was invented in 1957 by a USA company, Engelhard Corporation, later bought by German chemical manufacturer BASF for $US5 billion in 2006.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Select...ytic_reduction

Cummins was one of the first to adapt the system for vehicles. In 2006, Cummins launched its midrange engine certified to the Euro 4 standard using SCR for commercial vehicle applications in Europe.

https://www.cumminsfiltration.com/si...es/MB10033.pdf

Thank you for this bit of info, it is surprising that with Cummins earlier experience Mercedes didn’t perfected this technology before releasing it to commercial and consumer markets, fluid level measurement is not rocket science even with corrosive liquids.

The DEF/SCR is reasonably simple technology, mist injection into catalytic reactor. NOx sensors are technologically advanced but very similar to oxygen sensors used on gas engines for years. https://www.dieselnet.com/tech/sensors_nox.php