Any updates on Hymer/Roadtrek/Carado future?

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by booster

Interesting specs on the Express with the diesel. ...

... I hope someone has a diesel converter so we can see how it performs in the real class b world.

Also see that the 2.8L Duramax Turbo-Diesel 4-cylinder engine includes an exhaust brake - that would be very useful.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

Fuel mileage could be similar to Sprinter's small diesel or Chevy Colorado rated at about 25 mpg (30 hwy). For a lightweight RV conversion this size engine could be sufficient. But, the complexity of diesel engines fighting NOx with an urea injection and diesel particulate matter with a DPF is very high. Past warranty replacement of NOx sensors or DPF can wipeout all gas mileage savings. And, DPF is about the cost of a new short block 6l GM engine. https://www.gmc.com/gmc-life/trucks/...economy-rating

WOW....so...the DPF is the cost of a new engine block?
You know that replacement can be avoided with proper maintenance.

Just because you don't have a diesel doesn't mean you have to "trash" those of us have them.

As for savings... it's not simply better fuel economy...it's engine longevity...... most diesels can go twice the distance of a gasoline engine....

The RPMs are much lower and generally quieter going uphills.... gasoline engines need much higher RPMs to produce power .. diesels are known for low end torque.

[Bud]

"Just because you don't have a diesel doesn't mean you have to "trash" those of us have them."

That is about as troll like as it gets maybe??

You accuse Mr Boster of 'trashing' you, trashed you by stating a fact.

Bud

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by Bud

"Just because you don't have a diesel doesn't mean you have to "trash" those of us have them."

That is about as troll like as it gets maybe??

You accuse Mr Boster of 'trashing' you, trashed you by stating a fact.

Bud

Please take another look at my post above..

Besides.... how is stating a "fact" trolling someone..... I'm just pushing back...

I don't agree or care about your conclusion.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

........................

Just because you don't have a diesel doesn't mean you have to "trash" those of us have them.

....................

I have one or two diesel vehicles at any time for the last 40 years and the Sprinter since 2013.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Bud

"Just because you don't have a diesel doesn't mean you have to "trash" those of us have them."

That is about as troll like as it gets maybe??

You accuse Mr Boster of 'trashing' you, trashed you by stating a fact.

Bud

Sorry Bud. That was actually a quote from GeorgeRa, not me, but I would agree it is more of an evaluation of easily proven or disproven data plus an opinion and not trashing by any means, IMO, and it doesn't "trash" diesels, just states some costs.


This one is at least as bad or worse in stating data without sources and is in the same post of the one taking issue about "trashing".

As for savings... it's not simply better fuel economy...it's engine longevity...... most diesels can go twice the distance of a gasoline engine....

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

See this article.....

https://www.motherearthnews.com/gree...s-zb0z1204zmat

I've known many people who have gone at least 500,000 miles on their diesel engine.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

More information on this from another source....

https://m.carsdirect.com/used-car-bu...orth-the-price

[booster]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

More information on this from another source....

https://m.carsdirect.com/used-car-bu...orth-the-price

This has been discussed and depending on personal opinion either agreed with or debunked on your other million or so thread comments on this topic. Just dig up those discussions and put one link here, PLEASE.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by booster

This has been discussed and depending on personal opinion either agreed with or debunked on your other million or so thread comments on this topic. Just dig up those discussions and put one link here, PLEASE.

His data is from pre DPF/Urea/SCR era, this was a different world for diesels. I had Ford/International 7.3l Powerstroke, with the exception of cylinder wall perforation due to cavitation it was just about perfect, fortunately a simple coolant additive solved this issue. These were good old times.

[Jon in AZ]

500K miles is great... if you're running a fleet of delivery vans (or if you're one of the truly intrepid travelers who puts 75K+ miles a year on their coach). Based on used Class B sales, the large majority of owners will not use it anywhere near that much nor keep it anywhere near that long. The rest of the van and camper will be very long in the tooth well before the engine gives up.

If you really want to be logical about it, you have to calculate the total cost of ownership over the actual time you will own the van, not the lifespan of the engine. That includes purchase cost, resale value, maintenance and repairs, fuel cost, insurance, registration (which in some states is based on the value of the vehicle). For most people the economics favors gas.

Or just be honest and say "I like the way a diesel feels and performs, and I'm willing to pay more for it." Preferences do not require justification.

I too have been thinking about the GM 2.8L turbo diesel now available in Express vans. IIRC, it's actually heavier than the 6.0L V8 gasser in mine. We may never get to see that combination in a Class B, but logic fails me and it sounds tempting at the moment with gas and diesel prices at parity locally.

[gregmchugh]

Info on applying for a job at the new company if you are interested...

https://www.roadtrek.com/about/careers/

[booster]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

I too have been thinking about the GM 2.8L turbo diesel now available in Express vans. IIRC, it's actually heavier than the 6.0L V8 gasser in mine. We may never get to see that combination in a Class B, but logic fails me and it sounds tempting at the moment while gas and diesel prices are at parity locally.

I listed the weight differences here earlier


http://www.classbforum.com/forums/f5...html#post92673


It is a very heavy engine and costs some capacities, especially on the front I think as most of us are near full axle capacity with the gassers.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Quote,

It is a very heavy engine and costs some capacities, especially on the front I think as most of us are near full axle capacity with the gassers.

Fortunately... I don't have to worry about this.... with my Sprinter 3500. I've never encountered any issues like that.
This is the one golden feature of my setup.

Not to mention the 18+ MPG.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

Fortunately... I don't have to worry about this.... with my Sprinter 3500. I've never encountered any issues like that.
This is the one golden feature of my setup.

Perhaps to keep things in balance, you should include the less than golden features you've experienced. If memory serves, haven't you had a few hiccups on your sojourn to Sprinter Nirvana?

1. You experienced a break down in your emissions system that required Mercedes to replace the entire system which would be over $8000 if out of warranty. I think you could completely replace two gas engines for that amount.

2. The duals certainly increase load capacity but the downside is that the rear of the coach rides like a buck board. Didn't you have to spend upwards of a thousand dollars to get the suspension and steering to behave to your satisfaction?

[RossWilliams]

Like everything else the discussion of diesel vs gas depends on your use and your situation. If you most often are driving somewhere and parking, then gas may be cheaper. But if you are putting on a lot of miles, then diesel may work better for you. The resale value of a diesel will depreciate based on time and wear, a gasoline engine on time, wear and miles.

That reflects a reality. Most people buy a class B to travel in, not to park at a campsite. That makes the reliability of the engine very important to them. With gasoline there is a point where a lot of those people just won't take a risk on an old gas engine, regardless of how nice the coach is.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

Perhaps to keep things in balance, you should include the less than golden features you've experienced. If memory serves, haven't you had a few hiccups on your sojourn to Sprinter Nirvana?

1. You experienced a break down in your emissions system that required Mercedes to replace the entire system which would be over $8000 if out of warranty. I think you could completely replace two gas engines for that amount.

Actually, it was under warranty... but, the cost would have been closer to $4,000 at the dealership... probably would find another way to handle it next time.... still a shock though.....


2. The duals certainly increase load capacity but the downside is that the rear of the coach rides like a buck board. Didn't you have to spend upwards of a thousand dollars to get the suspension and steering to behave to your satisfaction?

Also correct... although, I understand that nearly all coaches with the exception of Advanced RV and Airstream who put in upgraded suspensions from the start and of course they charge a lot for this...so, you are paying up front...

As for the harsh ride.. it's better now, not perfect... but, I'm not riding back there....

We purchased the RS Adventurous used.... I expected some issues.... have pretty much dealt with all of them.
We got it at 26,000 and now have almost 45,000 in two years..... not bad...

These things are certainly expensive... it's the RV experience.. we're going out this weekend again.....

We do use it and enjoy it...

[BillsPaseo]

Modern gas engines are good for about 200K miles if properly maintained. Some go even more, 300K is not unheard of. If the van isn't a completely rusted out wreck by the time you hit those miles, you can drop in a remanufactured engine for $5k and keep on going. It will take us more than 15 years to hit that kind of mileage, so diesel has no real advantage for me.

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by BillsPaseo

Modern gas engines are good for about 200K miles if properly maintained. Some go even more, 300K is not unheard of. If the van isn't a completely rusted out wreck by the time you hit those miles, you can drop in a remanufactured engine for $5k and keep on going. It will take us more than 15 years to hit that kind of mileage, so diesel has no real advantage for me.

200K is the new 100K, and even 300K is no big deal any more. Maybe it's different out here in the Southwest because we tend to drive a lot of miles and rust is not an issue.

Gas or diesel, use is far better for a vehicle than sitting. Like people. Keep the wheels turning!

[booster]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

200K is the new 100K, and even 300K is no big deal any more. Maybe it's different out here in the Southwest because we tend to drive a lot of miles and rust is not an issue.

Gas or diesel, use is far better for a vehicle than sitting. Like people. Keep the wheels turning!

Yep, totally agree. I never thought I would see the day that on Craigslist anything under 200K is listed as "low miles" but that day is here (Craigslist exaggerates everything).



I particularly watch things like the vehicles we or others we know have to see how they are holding up over time, including all the vans like our Chevy, the Fords, Dodges, etc so look at all of them.


200K is getting common on all of them if they are old enough to have that many miles. The ads often mention what has been repaired so very useful to see repeating patterns. Some transits are up there already by delivery services, but haven't seen much in Promasters that high yet.



The old Dodges are pretty rare so limited info on them, but the Fords and Chevies are mostly getting used up somewhere in the 200-300K mile range with original engines and often not even great care it looks like. Over 300K is seen occasionally. I think most of the very high mile stuff probably just goes straight to the junk yard so I don't see them. Looking at the Hollander site can give a good look at mileage on lots of junk yard vehicles very easily, though. Sprinters are also fairly rare on Craiglist, but do show up. They show a similar 200-300K range on the high end as the others for the most part and not higher also like the others. Some engine replacements listed, and also upper engine work on heads and injection systems. These are mostly too old to have the new emissions issues.


When you see 300K+ Lexus and Suburbans selling for over $8K+ and deemed "excellent condition" you know the world has changed.