Airstream Atlas Murphy bed

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

The Sprinters come in three GVWR's 8550, 9900 and 11030, depending on model.

Roadtrek Adventurous RS1 - your Sprinter likely has a GVWR of 11,030 lbs. Have you weighed your van? It probably weighs over 9,500 lbs empty. So you can carry about 1,500 lbs, not 3,000.


- - Mike
2012 Sprinter 3500 Extended converted B-Van by Airstream

Take a look at this picture.... Weight of cargo and passengers is 2,691....

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

Take a look at this picture.... Weight of cargo and passengers is 2,691....

The 2,691 is the out-of-factory-door figure.
Probably the empty weight?


For real world application,
you need to weigh your RV.
Go to a truck weigh station; it only costs ~$17.

You should weigh it with full water, empty gray/black tanks, full diesel, full propane, but no food, clothing etc.,

Your REAL OCCC = GVWR - RV weight.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by BBQ

The 2,691 is the out-of-factory-door figure.
Probably the empty weight?


For real world application,
you need to weigh your RV.
Go to a truck weigh station; it only costs ~$17.

You should weigh it with full water, empty gray/black tanks, full diesel, full propane, but no food, clothing etc.,

Your REAL OCCC = GVWR - RV weight.

OK... I see the statement dealer installed options may reduce the overall carry weight... HOWEVER, it's interesting that it's designed to carry up to 7 passengers...at an average of 200 pounds per person that would be 1,400 pounds ...

Mike, honestly, this is in reality NOT a major issue for me...WHY?? My wife and I primarily use the vehicle ourselves... maybe we carry two people occasionally... On long trips, it's just the two of us plus clothes, gear, and food.....I can assure you were never going to be over the limit....... not possible.... even if I added our bicycles....

It's my understanding that the vehicle can in addition tow up to 5,000 pounds.... but, I hate towing..and will probably NEVER do that...

So, at 15,250 total weight... again.. never going to happen.....

If it's convenient..yeah, I could get it weighed....I know a place nearby...and the price you stated is very reasonable indeed...

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

Take a look at this picture.... Weight of cargo and passengers is 2,691....

OCCC is an RV Industry marketing game even though it is defined by NHTSA. They don't tell you how they calculated it. It all depends on what UVW (Unloaded Vehicle Weight) they use. UVW is defined by RVIA but they have no enforcement power and manufactures can do as they please.

Here are the RV weight definitions.

https://rvsafety.com/weighing/weighing-glossary

Getting your van weighed is the only truth. Overweight RVs are an industry disaster. If you have a serious accident and the insurance or opposing lawyers find out you are over weight it will be real trouble.


- - Mike
2012 Sprinter 3500 Extended converted B-Van by Airstream

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

OCCC is an RV Industry marketing game even though it is defined by NHTSA. They don't tell you how they calculated it. It all depends on what UVW (Unloaded Vehicle Weight) they use. UVW is defined by RVIA but they have no enforcement power and manufactures can do as they please.

Here are the RV weight definitions.

https://rvsafety.com/weighing/weighing-glossary

Getting your van weighed is the only truth. Overweight RVs are an industry disaster. If you have a serious accident and the insurance or opposing lawyers find out you are over weight it will be real trouble.


- - Mike
2012 Sprinter 3500 Extended converted B-Van by Airstream

Mike, you seriously think I could be overloaded with two people.... two bicycles, haven't even done that yet, food and clothes..... plus some electronics....????

---MARK

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

OK... I see the statement dealer installed options may reduce the overall carry weight... HOWEVER, it's interesting that it's designed to carry up to 7 passengers...at an average of 200 pounds per person that would be 1,400 pounds ...



Mike, honestly, this is in reality NOT a major issue for me...WHY?? My wife and I primarily use the vehicle ourselves... maybe we carry two people occasionally... On long trips, it's just the two of us plus clothes, gear, and food.....I can assure you were never going to be over the limit....... not possible.... even if I added our bicycles....



It's my understanding that the vehicle can in addition tow up to 5,000 pounds.... but, I hate towing..and will probably NEVER do that...



So, at 15,250 total weight... again.. never going to happen.....



If it's convenient..yeah, I could get it weighed....I know a place nearby...and the price you stated is very reasonable indeed...

I should have read your post before my last reply. You would be surprised how close the GVWR you might be. Mine is also a seven passenger van. I've had mine weighed three times now. Mostly because I've added 400W of solar panels, more batteries and larger inverter. But I've also removed stuff in Airstream base line.

My last weighing was at the recent FMCA Perry rally by RVSEF. They used individual calibrated scales under each wheel on a flat airport ramp, very accurate. With wife and I plus our normal gear and food for a month on the road I was 155 lbs under GVWR. That was with full fuel, water and LP.

Safe travels,


- - Mike
2012 Sprinter 3500 Extended converted B-Van by Airstream

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

Mike, you seriously think I could be overloaded with two people.... two bicycles, haven't even done that yet, food and clothes..... plus some electronics....????



---MARK

I have no idea - but then neither do you until you get it weighed. It's just too bad that RVIA doesn't require the RV manufactures to weigh each unit they sell exactly as sold.

The good news is the Sprinter dually has the highest GVWR of any available van and the new model for 2019 will have increase GVWR to 12,125 lbs.

https://www.mbvans.com/sprinter/comm...s/new-sprinter


- - Mike
2012 Sprinter 3500 Extended converted B-Van by Airstream

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

I have no idea - but then neither do you until you get it weighed. It's just too bad that RVIA doesn't require the RV manufactures to weigh each unit they sell exactly as sold.

The good news is the Sprinter dually has the highest GVWR of any available van and the new model for 2019 will have increase GVWR to 12,125 lbs.

https://www.mbvans.com/sprinter/comm...s/new-sprinter


- - Mike
2012 Sprinter 3500 Extended converted B-Van by Airstream

Thanks.. but, I probably won't be able to consider this...
At some point... yes, I'll stop and get the rig weighed...

I don't have extra solar panels.. just one 160 watt... and the standard inverter...
Sounds like you have done a few more custom things to your rig.....

I did have the new KONI FSD shocks installed, and the upgraded Roadmaster Sway Bar..and the Super Steer Trac Bar... that did add some additional weight...

Otherwise it's all standard stuff... one thing that did catch my attention is ...the vehicle has this sticker from Roadtrek...and I presume you have one from Airstream..? Are you saying that they are just out right lying about these numbers?? Just asking because that would be very disingenuous... and meant to confuse people who are trying to do the right thing..... what's the point of even having the sticker with these numbers if they are so WRONG???

You said that after you weighed everything...you were maybe 150 pounds under the acceptable weight... that makes those stickers look foolish.... don't you think?

Now, is it possible that your published numbers on the Airstream are significantly different than the Roadtrek??

The only thing I have not done yet is add on the bicycle rack and bicycles...the rack weighs 60 pounds, and the two bikes are another 65-70 pounds..so, by my estimation.. I would be extremely close to the upper end of the weight capacity if I followed exactly what you were telling me.....

I certainly don't like the sound of that.... let me know if I got this wrong??? Thank you.

---MARK

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

OK... I see the statement dealer installed options may reduce the overall carry weight... HOWEVER, it's interesting that it's designed to carry up to 7 passengers...at an average of 200 pounds per person that would be 1,400 pounds ...

...

That's not a marketing gimmick.
That's flexibility for you to do what you want.
eg... You can take more people, but less water... or remove the microwave


eg.
A large truck with a small engine?
Yeah... that's for flower delivery, not lumber delivery.

eg2.
Ask any private plane owner, they will tell you their small private planes...
Many have 4 seats. But with full fuel and/or high temp and/or high altitude, they can only carry 2 people and a puke bag.

YMMV

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

OK... I see...

Mike, honestly, this is in reality NOT a major issue for me...WHY?? My wife and I primarily use the vehicle ourselves... maybe we carry two people occasionally... On long trips, it's just the two of us plus clothes, gear, and food.....I can assure you were never going to be over the limit....... not possible.... even if I added our bicycles....

...

Many people are surprised when they weighed their RV.

Can't wait to see yours


Don't forget, RT use solid maple to build their cabinets.

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

OK...

It's my understanding that the vehicle can in addition tow up to 5,000 pounds.... but, I hate towing..and will probably NEVER do that...

. . .

That "5,000 lb" is a marketing gimmick. An intentional misleading wordcraft.

They are alluding to the HITCH ability, not how much the RV can actually tow in real life.

[SteveJ]

I was recently in Oregon. I found a closed state weigh station to weigh my RT as the read out was on a post plainy visible. It was on the east edge of Sisters.

And yes, it was free and easy/convenient.

BTW, I was told by a Wisconsin state weigh master that CAT scales tend toward the high side of the tolerance to avoid paying out on their overweight guarantee. It's not much, but his scale showed me a bit less than the CAT scale weigh ticket. It was about a thousand lbs difference at the 70 thousand lbs range.

On TDY near Lake Tahoe.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

Thanks.. but, I probably won't be able to consider this...

At some point... yes, I'll stop and get the rig weighed...



I don't have extra solar panels.. just one 160 watt... and the standard inverter...

Sounds like you have done a few more custom things to your rig.....



I did have the new KONI FSD shocks installed, and the upgraded Roadmaster Sway Bar..and the Super Steer Trac Bar... that did add some additional weight...



Otherwise it's all standard stuff... one thing that did catch my attention is ...the vehicle has this sticker from Roadtrek...and I presume you have one from Airstream..? Are you saying that they are just out right lying about these numbers?? Just asking because that would be very disingenuous... and meant to confuse people who are trying to do the right thing..... what's the point of even having the sticker with these numbers if they are so WRONG???



You said that after you weighed everything...you were maybe 150 pounds under the acceptable weight... that makes those stickers look foolish.... don't you think?



Now, is it possible that your published numbers on the Airstream are significantly different than the Roadtrek??



The only thing I have not done yet is add on the bicycle rack and bicycles...the rack weighs 60 pounds, and the two bikes are another 65-70 pounds..so, by my estimation.. I would be extremely close to the upper end of the weight capacity if I followed exactly what you were telling me.....



I certainly don't like the sound of that.... let me know if I got this wrong??? Thank you.



---MARK

Mark - I woke up this morning realizing I have overstated the weight issue for you. Always helps to sleep on a thought to get clarity. Your Roadtrek, if I recall correctly, is a normal length 170" WB Sprinter at about 22 feet overall. My Airstream is an Extended model just over 24 feet. That makes a big difference.

For your indicated travel your weight is likely well within the GVWR limits. It would still be a good idea to get weighed so you have a solid baseline.

My apologies for being overly alarmist last night.

Safe travels,

- - Mike
2012 Sprinter 3500 Extended converted B-Van by Airstream

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

Mark - I woke up this morning realizing I have overstated the weight issue for you. Always helps to sleep on a thought to get clarity. Your Roadtrek, if I recall correctly, is a normal length 170" WB Sprinter at about 22 feet overall. My Airstream is an Extended model just over 24 feet. That makes a big difference.

For your indicated travel your weight is likely well within the GVWR limits. It would still be a good idea to get weighed so you have a solid baseline.

My apologies for being overly alarmist last night.

Safe travels,

- - Mike
2012 Sprinter 3500 Extended converted B-Van by Airstream

Mike,

THANKS...I will get it weighed.. just to validate what I already know....

I'm VERY CURIOUS to know what AIRSTREAM posted on your vehicle.... could you please provide a photo of the sticker on your vehicle?????

YES...I can see how the extended Sprinter van would add extra weight??

What is your number compared to my 2,691....???

I had a very candid conversation this morning with Nevin at Roadtrek.. he's a technician there and we discussed a number of issues including weight...

Yes, my vehicle is the 22 foot 9 inch model... Some people call it 23 feet... when I crossed Lake Michigan last year the ferry measured it at exactly 23 feet from the front to back..

Anyway... Nevin was "supremely confident" that the 2,691 stated on the sticker is correct... apparently, they weigh the vehicle right after the conversion...

Here's the thing.... Roadtrek is putting their name on the sticker to verify their work... and people like this rarely get it wrong.... Here's WHY....

Could you imagine the law suits from something like that.... Look what happened to VW...and diesel gate....? I seriously doubt that Roadtrek wants this kind of blow back....

Talk about who's responsible here... again, their name is on the line here..... we're just the consumer here.... when you place the responsibility in this light..the company is on the hot seat here.....

Now... about the weight.. YES...it's absolutely correct to start deducting for people, water, clothes, gear, food, fluids in the tanks etc... SO... this is where the consumer responsibility comes in..... you're absolutely correct....you have to deduct for the following.....

Conservative numbers....

200 pounds per person... 400
full tank of fresh water... 300

Beefed up sway bar and Trac Bar. 100 pounds...


Bicycles and rack 150

Extra water bottles. 50

Clothes, food, extra gear, chairs,
electronics, extra supplies. Dishes, cookware 200 pounds.. ( probably not even close, much lower). Clothes don't weigh much at all...

Full tank of diesel and propane. 200 pounds probably way over....

Total extra weight...............................1,400 pounds ..

SO..... 2,691 minus 1,400 =. 1,291 pounds under the threshold.....

After this conversation... I'm pretty sure that when I do get this weighed... I'll find out this is all a " tempest in a teapot"..... IF you know what I mean.....

I'm CERTAINLY glad that I have the dual wheels on the Sprinter....it makes a huge difference.

---MARK

[GeorgeRa]

I had 21ft. Bigfoot trailer, it supposed to be a light weight but its weight wasn’t even close to the one on the sticker. I found out why and wasn’t happy.

During installation of a 2500 Onan generator into the optional factory ready mount for routing cables I needed to drill through the frame crossbars to install cable clamps. This drilling turned into an ordeal. First, I thought they were just 5” x 2” x 1/8” steel tubes, but they were not, they were solid steel bars adding about 400 lbs. of weight.

Bigfoot placed black/grey/fresh tanks behind rear axle which could cause major sway with low hitch weight, so their remedy was adding 400 lbs. heavy steel bars.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

I had 21ft. Bigfoot trailer, it supposed to be a light weight but its weight wasn’t even close to the one on the sticker. I found out why and wasn’t happy.

During installation of a 2500 Onan generator into the optional factory ready mount for routing cables I needed to drill through the frame crossbars to install cable clamps. This drilling turned into an ordeal. First, I thought they were just 5” x 2” x 1/8” steel tubes, but they were not, they were solid steel bars adding about 400 lbs. of weight.

Bigfoot placed black/grey/fresh tanks behind rear axle which could cause major sway with low hitch weight, so their remedy was adding 400 lbs. heavy steel bars.

How's this reference to a 21 foot trailer relevant to this conversation???

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by roadtrek adventuous rs1

how's this reference to a 21 foot trailer relevant to this conversation???

? ? ? ?

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Roadtrek Adventuous RS1

How's this reference to a 21 foot trailer relevant to this conversation???

Weight accuracy on a sticker in an RV.

[Boxster1971]

My 2013 Airstream Interstate does not have a sticker with OCCC. Mine only has the GVWR on the Airstream sticker that has same 11,030 GVWR as the Mercedes sticker on the driver seat base.

The 2013's owners manual does have carry capacity info that looks a lot like your Roadtrek with a Net Carrying Capacity (NCC) of 2,900 lbs., but that was for a 22"-9" Sprinter. Mine was the first year they offered the 24'-5" Sprinters. But even the newest Airstream manuals don't use the term OCCC. Aistream is still using NCC. The 2018 manual for a van like mine says the NCC is only 1,643 lbs. Much more realistic

The labeling of OCCC was first required in 2007 by a rule from NHTSA at this link if you want the gory details and commnets made by the RVDA (RV Dealers Association) and RVIA (RV Industry Association).
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-200...f/E7-22962.pdf

I did find several bits of correspondence between Thor and NHTSA that indicate they have a lot of flexibility on OCCC labeling, especially with regard to passengers. NHTSA ultimately wants to be sure the GVWR is clearly labled.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/public-insp...2014-21884.pdf

... and this one from 2009
https://isearch.nhtsa.gov/files/08-003469drn-rev.htm

RVIA and RVDA asked for reconsiderations of the 2007 ruling that NHTSA denied in 2010. Your government in action from a petition submitted by an RV owner in 2000 got final decison 10 years later in 2010. All this because RV owners are not required to get their rigs weighed like commercial trucks. So owners expect to get labels to tell them how much they can carry. But its all a smoke screen as neither the RVDA and RVIA want NHTSA to impose a rule that RV must get weight checked like commercial trucks. Not unlike the fact that most states let you drive a big RV rig with no special license.

Here is link to a long discussion on OCCC in Unity subforum of the Sprinter-Source forum.
https://sprinter-source.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=31868

My impression is Roadtrek and LTV as Canadian companies are just following the letter of the NHTSA ruling. While Thor and Aistream just continuing their own CCC or NCC labels.

Its all a game as I discovered in a NHTSA posting some weeks back while searching for some unrelated information on vehicle safety standards. I stumbled across the paragraph below on a NHTSA FAQ web page.

https://icsw.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/im...ges/page4.html

8. Overloaded Recreational Vehicle (RV).
The FMVSS have requirements for the manufacturer to use proper tires and rims for the gross axle weight rating (GAWR) and the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR). The manufacturer may determine the GVWR by adding cargo capacity (if any) to the curb weight of the vehicle as manufactured. The wise consumer, before purchase, will determine if the vehicle has sufficient cargo capacity to carry the weight of water, additional equipment (such as televisions, and microwave ovens), and luggage. The manufacturer’s certification label must show the GVWR. The GVWR must not be exceeded by overloading the vehicle. There is little the government can do to assist a consumer who has purchased a vehicle that has insufficient cargo capacity for its intended use.

The highlighted red text above is all you will get from our government regarding Overloaded RVs.

I'll get off my soap box now.

[Davydd]

My Sprinter weighed 9.420 lbs. on delivery. Thus I could fill it with 1,610 more pounds before I exceeded 11,030 lbs. The tanks were empty with the exception of diesel fuel when it was weighed.