Advancing Alvar

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by Mike

Of course.
I just thought a ladder was a bit mundane from an engineering perspective, whereas something techie and gadgety would be far more interesting. Since you're designing the beds from the ground up (pun respectfully intended) with the ARV people assisting, why not add a little architectural bling?
However you do it, I'm sure the finished product will be unique.
Good luck. Have fun.

That Airstream Sprinter Westfalia I mentioned had built into the cabinetry strategically placed steps to get into a higher bunk. I was intrigued by that idea. I have some ideas.

An old idea dating from Benjamin Franklin is a "library ladder chair". Google that.

[BBQ]

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This is exciting. Thanks for sharing.

[Mfturner]

Great fun, thanks for sharing your floorplan and design process. Will the bathroom be a full wet bath with shower, and has the plumbing been worked out to the tanks around the axle?

Nice that they have access to the super single, I wasn't sure about availability in the US.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by Mfturner

Great fun, thanks for sharing your floorplan and design process. Will the bathroom be a full wet bath with shower, and has the plumbing been worked out to the tanks around the axle?

Nice that they have access to the super single, I wasn't sure about availability in the US.

It will be a wet bath with plenty of elbow room at 30" x 38". The ARV standard bath is longer but only 23" inside at the widest point from the outside wall. The black tank has to be worked out but preliminary design will be 12 gal. vs 18 gal. we presently have. We could put a cassette in that will have access without having to go through an outside wall but through the back inset wall so it is more stealthy.

The Super Single wheel is available. ARV hasn't had one and I don't know if I've ever seen one from any other converter. The tires are wider than the front tires so you would have two different sizes. I've never carried a spare so that doesn't bother me. What bothers me is I don't think Michelin has that back tire size in their Defender series and few other tire manufacturers other than Continental has it. It does give you a 9,900 GVWR as opposed to Duallys that give you 11,030. I am still hoping a 2500 chassis will be adequate. Super Singles are not available in 4x4.

[avanti]

How will your one-off bathroom be fabricated? Will it be one-piece fiberglass? I ask because I think that this issue is one of the biggest impediments to interesting DIY projects, and have been wondering how ARV approaches situations like this.

I agree that you should try hard to stick with a 2500. I have nothing against super-singles, but they will NEVER be common. I know from experience how much of a hassle finding an oddball tire can be when you are stuck in the middle of nowhere.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by avanti

How will your one-off bathroom be fabricated? Will it be one-piece fiberglass? I ask because I think that this issue is one of the biggest impediments to interesting DIY projects, and have been wondering how ARV approaches situations like this.

I agree that you should try hard to stick with a 2500. I have nothing against super-singles, but they will NEVER be common. I know from experience how much of a hassle finding an oddball tire can be when you are stuck in the middle of nowhere.

I don't know how ARV would handle the one-off bathroom. They handled to one-off electrical articulating beds by building several others and offering them as an option. As the video mentioned they have quite a few short vans underway and none of them are alike. Maybe they will settle out and offer a base one or two. Of course I am hoping they adopt my design.

The Super Single concerns me too, but dually's won't work in my design for the bathroom. A vanity will cover the single wheel well but not the dually. Besides, if I can do without a dually that is much preferred for me. They can get fresh water in at about 38 gallon in the location of the longer vans (40 gal.) and a grey tank at 26 gallons the same as the longer vans. This is way more than typical short Sprinters or any Promaster and may be the factor for seeking a Super Single. The black tank calculates out (prelim.) at 12-15 gallons which is less than my current 18 gallon tank but experience leads me to believe I can easily live with 12 gal. and go a week or more. Dumping history as been 13 day intervals with the black tank not as full (%) as the grey tank.

I save weight on the beds from my present articulating without the steel base, a steel beam spanning the width of the van, actuators, motor and plywood base without out any of that and wood slats instead of plywood.

Obviously less weight in a 5 foot shorter van and fewer cabinets.

Having batteries inside leaves out that steel cage and skid plate I mentioned. If I go to a Volta battery system I would if lighter and that may be the case in wiring alone (4/0) and the huge Delco alternator.

Alvar at 24'-1" length weighed about 9,400 pounds with fresh water tank filled for reference.

[AlexJ]

Love your ideas. What are the dimensions of the rear storage area for your folding bikes?

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by AlexJ

Love your ideas. What are the dimensions of the rear storage area for your folding bikes?

17" deep to the plywood floor edge and about 35" wide. The back doors are beyond that so there are a few more inches in depth, and to the height of the van about 75". My Dahon Mariner D7 folding bikes are 33" wide, 15" deep and 25" high in the folded position. I am thinking adjustable shelving so you can get whatever you want to store in that space or no shelving if you want which ARV claims they can get two regular bikes hanging in the space. This is Advanced RV's Dugan video, their first short Sprinter with talk about hanging bikes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZbwHH5Szfo

[GeorgeRa]

My conversion was based on 2500 144” WB passenger van. All windows and softer rear suspension were the key reasons. Windows can be blocked with a reflective mylar in case of being blocked by a cabinet.

I weighed it when it was practically finished (didn’t have Espar D5 yet), lightly loaded with both of us was just shy of 7,5K lbs. allowing us to enjoy the Old Priest Grade Rd. shortcut on the route to Yosemite. Recently I weighed fully loaded van, 20 gal. water (12G fresh/4G hot water tank/4G cassette flush), full diesel tank, loaded Stowaway 2 hitch container with both of us was 8K lbs. The functional difference between your goal and my conversion is inside shower, I only have the transom one.

I contribute my key weight saving to use of 8020 aluminum framing, weight is in a very strong frame not in walls. Cabinet walls are to contain cargo and for esthetics, for example most of my cabinets don’t have rear walls. Choice of 8020 aluminum profiles was one of the best decision for conversion, if I would be doing again I would likely use various profile sizes but settling on one 1.5” profile was easier. I used HDPE to match MB color and it doesn’t require any finish work. My other choice was prefinished bamboo but I felt that marine material like HDPE was better for van conversion.

Did you consider installation of a Dometic marine vacuum toilet, the vacuum and holding tanks can be located far away from the toilet? It is way more complex than cassette or black tank but allows design flexibility, low water usage and pumping out of the holding tank. https://www.marinesan.com/VacuFlush-...tems-s/214.htm

[Davydd]

The toilet in the video, BTW, was a spare toilet they had on hand to sit on to get a feel for the clearance dimensions. It was a macerator toilet so you could pump to a more remote storage tank. I don't know if I would need it but the outlet would be behind the rear axle. Right now the tank could be above the floor.

Rob, the carpenter in the video, is about 6'-3" and based on him sitting I increased the bathroom 2" to 2'-6". I'm 5'-8" so it would have been adequate for me.

I don't know if ARV has worked with 8020 aluminum framing. That's up to them. They now have a state of the art cabinet shop at their main building and their standard is laminate on plywood to get the vacuum formed round corners they are known for. I have 11 rounded corners in Alvar. I do know they've worked with those honeycomb core lightweight panels.

As I said in the previous post, the higher capacity tanks may govern what I do. Also, though 40% of AGMs in weight, 800ah of lithium ion batteries are still going to be about 240 lbs.

[mp33golf]

I thought you may want to look into this for your new design. I am think of doing it on my future Rv.
Cinderella Motion Toilet - https://www.cinderellaeco.com/us/cinderella-motion/
and also Osys Mobile Showering systems - Home - OSYS Mobile
truly could help with the water tanks and being able to stay out there longer.
best of luck with your new project and thanks for sharing.
MP

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by mp33golf

I thought you may want to look into this for your new design. I am think of doing it on my future Rv.
Cinderella Motion Toilet - https://www.cinderellaeco.com/us/cinderella-motion/
and also Osys Mobile Showering systems - Home - OSYS Mobile
truly could help with the water tanks and being able to stay out there longer.
best of luck with your new project and thanks for sharing.
MP

Those are interesting concepts. Has anyone installed either in a Class B?

The incinerator toilet is more honest than a so called composting toilet that doesn't compost at all at least in the time you have to empty it and create a problem of disposal for someone else. I would need more information about it's use, energy requirements and reliability.

The water saving shower is far out. I can see it at a space station but water is plentiful on earth and RV water saving is vastly superior to home use as it is. I cheat when I can if decent showers are available and take showers outside the van mainly because of guilty pleasure of showering for 5 minutes at an extreme water flow you can't get from a pump.

I've mastered the navy shower serving 3 years in the US Navy. One thing ARV does is provide a shower head with a dead lever like a garden hose. There is no fumbling around with a cylindrical poke back and forth shut off that almost requires two hands.

[mp33golf]

I know both concepts are new to north America - but have been around Europe for a while now. I just thought for going off grid they are great ideas.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by mp33golf

I know both concepts are new to north America - but have been around Europe for a while now. I just thought for going off grid they are great ideas.

My average for dumping and picking up fresh water is an average of about 13 days. Even if you wanted to go off-grid you still have to come into civilization for food, gas, laundry, water, dumping, etc. within that time or maybe sooner like a week or less. Also, I don't stay in one place more than four days usually and those instances are usually more civilized places. So when you are on the move you are going to have access to civilization. Then there is still grey water disposal that doesn't go down a shower drain. I don't believe in the Dave Matthews Band idea for dumping on the ground. Unless there is a compelling reason I probably wouldn't consider at least in the north American hemisphere.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by mp33golf

I thought you may want to look into this for your new design. I am think of doing it on my future Rv.
Cinderella Motion Toilet - https://www.cinderellaeco.com/us/cinderella-motion/
and also Osys Mobile Showering systems - Home - OSYS Mobile
truly could help with the water tanks and being able to stay out there longer.
best of luck with your new project and thanks for sharing.
MP

My only issue with incinerator toilet is required Propane fuel which I'm planning to avoid in my next van. I'd guess it doesn't use much Propane, but that would be a trade-off against a black holding tank.


- - Mike
2012 Sprinter 3500 Extended converted B-Van by Airstream

[mp33golf]

great points all around - thanks for the great insight!

[Boxster1971]

Just looked closer at Cinderella toilets. They also make electric versions that require up to 1.5 KW per flush.


- - Mike
2012 Sprinter 3500 Extended converted B-Van by Airstream

[Davydd]

I don't have any propane in my current Class B and I am certainly not going to in my next one. So the incinerator toilet is out. BTW, 90% use is peeing. How do you incinerate that?

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by Davydd

17" deep to the plywood floor edge and about 35" wide. The back doors are beyond that so there are a few more inches in depth, and to the height of the van about 75". My Dahon Mariner D7 folding bikes are 33" wide, 15" deep and 25" high in the folded position. I am thinking adjustable shelving so you can get whatever you want to store in that space or no shelving if you want which ARV claims they can get two regular bikes hanging in the space. This is Advanced RV's Dugan video, their first short Sprinter with talk about hanging bikes.

In this video ARV claims they designed a short Sprinter that can store 4 bicycles inside though they don't show them but show people standing in the space in the back where they would hang.

I am proposing a back storage space where I said think vertical with adjustable shelving. in this rendering I show my two Dahon folding bicycles. I suppose one could get two hanging standard bicycles in that space. The passenger side would have the two bunk beds. The battery bank underneath the bed is an 800ah GBS lithium block that I have in Alvar. One of my design goals is with a short Sprinter I will not have a compromise hitch received bike rack or storage box which defeats the purpose of seeking a shorter van, IMO. You might as well go to a regular body van when adding 3 feet or more on the back.

I seriously doubt we will carry bicycles and use that space with just more storage on most trips. I'm a hiker not a biker.

[Winston]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

Just looked closer at Cinderella toilets. They also make electric versions that require up to 1.5 KW per flush.

KW or KWh? How much energy does this really require?