Advancing Alvar

[Boxster1971]

David - thanks for posting more details about ARV systems. They truly make a remarkably capable B-van. The 48V systems save significant weight. Also 48V has been the standard in the Telephone industry for decades.


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[jaak1993]

Switching from 12V to 48V reduces the AH rating by 75% to get the same wattage storage. 800AH of batteries at 12V is 9600 watts stored. 48V batteries would require 200AH capacity to equal the same 9600 watts.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by jaak1993

Switching from 12V to 48V reduces the AH rating by 75% to get the same wattage storage. 800AH of batteries at 12V is 9600 watts stored. 48V batteries would require 200AH capacity to equal the same 9600 watts.

???

The same lithium cell count in both cases just configured for 12v output in one case and 48v output in the other case.

Assuming you were using 200AH lithium cells, there would be 16 of these cells in both cases. Four cells in series to get 12v and four of these sets in parallel to get an 800AH 12v bank. For the 48v bank the 16 cells would all be in series to get 200AH at 48v.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by booster

At least while I was still working industrial factories until 2013, the safety rules for AC and DC started at 50v, so I wouldn't be surprised to see the 48v get to be pretty standard as it would take no real added wiring methods compared to the 12v.

Don't remote audio lines deliver at 70 volts?

[booster]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

Don't remote audio lines deliver at 70 volts?

Don't know about that, as we didn't have any of them. I am going by the arcflash rules that came out a few years ago that required all the horribly inconvenient safety gear. Rubber jacket, special gloves, face shield, etc. The worst was they didn't just apply to the stuff you were working on. If there was anything in the cabinet of 50v+ you had to suit up if you followed the rules. Our main control circuits were all in the same cabinets as the power wiring and motor controllers, etc, so there you were with all this stuff on and meter trying to measure things on a plc tiny little pins and terminals. It actually made it more dangerous, I think.

[FlyingDiver]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

Perhaps I'm mising something here, but I don't see the 48 Volt (Volta) charging system glued to 800ah of batteries accomplishing anything that the Delco 330A alternator already does other than reducing the duration of the charge cycle a little.To get any significant advantage with Volta, wouldn't you want to augment battery capacity way above 800ah?

The Volta system costs more, so it's the buyer's choice if they want it or not. It is being installed in many of the units built since Escape. I don't know the exact percentage.

Charging is faster. The entire Volta system weighs considerably less than the equivalent in a 12V system. Part of that is the batteries, part is the wiring.

We're still waiting for our chassis to get delivered to ARV, but they're building cabinets for it already.

[Davydd]

This is one I didn't know that I got off a Facebook comment:

"ARV actually has a third option. Clients can have LiFeMgPO4 batteries from Valence Technology installed. Unlike the standard LiFePO4 batteries, the Valence batteries can be safely stored down to -40 C."

My system is the first build of the GBS batteries from Elite Power Systems over 3 years ago now. The new 48v system is by Volta Power Systems. Now this one is from:

https://www.valence.com

It would answer any storage problems of lithium ion over the winter though I have solved that in another way. I have no knowledge yet of the configuration Advanced RV is using. I assume a 12V system with Valence to Elite substitution of batteries unless they have other Advancements.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by FlyingDiver

The Volta system costs more, so it's the buyer's choice if they want it or not. It is being installed in many of the units built since Escape. I don't know the exact percentage.

Charging is faster. The entire Volta system weighs considerably less than the equivalent in a 12V system. Part of that is the batteries, part is the wiring.

We're still waiting for our chassis to get delivered to ARV, but they're building cabinets for it already.

are you getting the volta system?

[FlyingDiver]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

are you getting the volta system?

Yes we are.

[Davydd]

Advanced RV released a video. The cats out of the bag on what I am attempting to do with a 144" WB Sprinter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsD4UvfLVAA&t=4s

[B Eventually]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Advanced RV released a video. The cats out of the bag on what I am attempting to do with a 144" WB Sprinter.

I saw the video earlier this morning. Looks very interesting. How long until you commission the build? I wasn't around to follow Alvar's build, so I'm really looking forward to the next one.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Advanced RV released a video. The cats out of the bag on what I am attempting to do with a 144" WB Sprinter.

Regarding climbing into the upper bunk.
Was there no way you could either hang the upper bunk with cables at the corners and use some sort of remote controlled winch to allow it to lower to a comfortable height to allow ingress/egress? Like the over cab beds that raise/lower in some of the class A units? Or, some way to use hydraulic supports at the 4 corners of the bed to lower/raise it for the occupant? All controlled by remote control, with some sort of auto-stop facility to keep you from getting squished if the bed needed to be lowered, while the lower berth is occupied?
Rather than have to climb into and out of the top berth at it's full raised height?

[Davydd]

The beds are still being studied.

[GeorgeRa]

We are a little younger but we wouldn’t consider a bunk beds arrangement. Convenience and safety would be more important.

A year ago, I installed the Rockler library ladder for 12’ high shelves in the garage. You could consider this type of ladder, it can move up and down on the upper hinges so it can be stored against the shelves after use. Vibration could be an issue but it is likely solvable.

Good luck.

[B Eventually]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

We are a little younger but we wouldn’t consider a bunk beds arrangement. Convenience and safety would be more important.

I'm a lot younger and would seriously consider a bunk arrangement once the kids are grown. Even though I'm younger, I don't think bunks are inherently less safe. I'm 6'2" and my wife is a foot shorter. I could see bunks working very well for us. With her bunk close to the floor, I'd only need one step to get into my bed.

If people are concerned about rolling out of the top bunk, a small guard rail or netting should suffice.

[avanti]

When I was designing our rig, I played a little bit with bunk beds. One idea that intrigued me was bunks at the front of the van with the upper one sliding over the driver's seat. That would allow the occupant of the lower bed the head room to sit up and thus allow the upper bed to be somewhat lower. I abandoned the work because the GWV trifold bed is so wonderful, but I found no show-stoppers.

[Davydd]

Testing the bed. The top of the bed will be about 50" high. Yes my wife has claimed dibs on the upper bunk. I plan to put a skylight up there similar maybe to the one in ARVs bathroom to make a sense of more space. We first got interested in upper bunks with the 2005 Airstream Sprinter Westfalia still sold as the James Cook in Europe. Of course that had a fiberglass top and was not in the confines of the steel unibody Sprinter. But the idea of a short van with not a lot of sacrifice in the kitchen and bathroom still intrigued me.

Then in 2012 at Muncho Lake heading up the Alaska Highway I visited a couple of Germans who brought over their CS Reisemobile DUO short Sprinter. It had bunk beds that were somewhat satisfactory. And again there was no sacrifice in the kitchen galley and especially the bathroom.

It struck me that all short Sprinters so far had really lousy kitchen galleys with no space and ill-placed refrigerators. The Travato had a fairly decent sized bathroom but a lousy bed setup for two people and it was nearly as high as an upper bunk because of the toy hauler concept.

My kitchen design is ample as described in the video with a Novakool 2 door refrigerator/freezer and Microwave similar to the longer ARVs and the pull-out Keurig. I will also have a tall cabinet as before with pantry.

The living area will have to depend on turned around cab seats for sitting. As explained in the video I will have more space for the driver side than I had in Alvar with the computer desk. TV is a minor consideration and my go with iPads. Many ARVs have been built with them instead of TVs. We just don't watch TV much on the road. I'm exploring tables. The Lagun tables may be winners if they can be stored in place.

The batteries will be inside under the lower bed and I will get a minimum of 800ah of lithium batteries. Any of the three lithium solutions ARV offers will fit.

My preliminary design has 3 large skylights, one in the bathroom, one over the upper bunk and one in the kitchen/living area. I may revisit the latter one now that ARV has a very quiet air conditioner. I just used air conditioning rarely because I hated the sound. I am thinking of not having solar. Solar is not a very big contributor when you have over 800ah of battery and a second alternator. I do have another air conditioner alternative not on the roof. Yeah, a split system but maybe technically not a split system but 3-way ducted distribution to beds and living area.

For the beds my articulating design won't work but I have ideas for manual articulating beds but not as sophisticated. High end adjustable hardwood slats will be utilized. I find them more space saving that Froli and more comfortable.

My bathroom is bigger than ARV's bathroom in the longer Sprinter at 2'-6" deep by 3'-2" wide in my preliminary design. We are not sacrificing much in F, B and G tank capacities.

For back storage. Think vertically. I got Mike Neundorfer excited when he realized we could get two bikes in the back just like their Dugan short sprinter design. The storage will be a minimum of 1'-5" deep shelves because that is the magic number for many large storage boxes and a Yeti type cooler. Also it is the magic number to hang two bikes or two stacked folding bikes we have or two inflatable kayaks we have. It will be a flexible space. The space is bigger than most every Sprinter on the market with under bed storage and probably more organizable.

I think I've met most of my objectives with a 5 foot shorter sprinter that I presently have. That's why its dubbed Mies - "less is more". My wife has named it "Get Shorty".

[Mike]

Originally Posted by Davydd

The beds are still being studied.

Of course.
I just thought a ladder was a bit mundane from an engineering perspective, whereas something techie and gadgety would be far more interesting. Since you're designing the beds from the ground up (pun respectfully intended) with the ARV people assisting, why not add a little architectural bling?
However you do it, I'm sure the finished product will be unique.
Good luck. Have fun.

[B Eventually]

Originally Posted by Davydd

The batteries will be inside under the lower bed and I will get a minimum of 800ah of lithium batteries. Any of the three lithium solutions ARV offers will fit.

Why not under the floor? Are you moving them up to preserve your F, B, & G tank capacities?

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by B Eventually

Why not under the floor? Are you moving them up to preserve your F, B, & G tank capacities?

In a preliminary analysis ARV has determined you can't get enough battery capacity I want under the floor in a short Sprinter behind the rear axle. The F, B and G tanks will all be forward of the axle so will have no effect on battery placement. There are advocates for storing in a conditioned space. I'm not all that convinced for cold weather storage with the inefficiency of keeping a whole van warm unoccupied, but with a heated garage I am not that worried now. I can save weight as well. Those ARV batteries under the floor are protected by a heavy steel cage and a large aluminum skid plate. You can eliminate both.