Advancing Alvar

[booster]

I don't want to answer for the folks that actually have the more automated systems, but to me it looks like the only way to get rid of the 110 volt/inverter parasitic losses is to have the 110v off when those loads aren't actually in use.

Unfortunately, that kind of negates one of the big things that Davydd was looking for, and that is being able to use all his 110v stuff, all the time, without switching things all the time.

It may be, that until low draw 110v stuff comes out, the only real way around it is lots of lithium batteries and huge charging rates, as we have seen it can work that way based on Davydd's experience.

I do think think the magnitude of the parasitic losses surprised some of us. I know it did me.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by mojoman

Any suggestions for those building their own? My system will not be automated as yours is and what I take away from reading your threads is the trade off of a bit of parasitic loss. I plan on wiring all individual dc circuits through a circuit breaker switch panels to give me the ability to turn off anything.

That is essentially the approach I took. I used a PanelTronics marine switch panel:

This works very well for us. Unlike in our old rig, my wife is actually willing to turn stuff on and off! Makes it easy to fine-tune parasitic loads. Alvair's touch panel does look like fun, though.

As for inverter parasitic loads: We've found that it makes a big difference having a single, convenient switch to flip, compared to having to sort through the inverter's obtuse menu systems. The Outback has a special input for this purpose, so it is easy to do. This is a place where the nice, big marine toggle switches really shine. The "auto AC detect" feature discussed above may be another option. Haven't tried that one yet.

I also picked up on the noise of the inverter which I'll try to engineer out of my installation.

Well, as DavyDD said, if you are using the Outback, it is really a non-issue.

[booster]

X2 on the single switch controls. Our stuff is basic compared to what we are talking about here, but our inverter is a single remote switch and easy.

Our Blue Sky solar controller has lots of neat information that is useful periodically, but it is, as Avanti said, many screens hidden, and some of the screens you need to go through can do bad things like total reset to default.

Simple is good, we have the same DW scared to turn things on and off issues.

[Davydd]

I have circuit breakers and other monitors and switches where I can shut things off at will as well as a battery disconnect switch. Behind that Silverleaf panel the cabinet door face lifts up and you see all the subset stuff like Avanti is showing underneath with Espar, Outback, circuit panel, etc. Of course, no Onan generator.



I can control the status of the Outback inverter with that same panel controller Avanti shows or I could control it on the Silverleaf touch screen. The Silverleaf panel is just an interface monitor to report statuses and to turn things on and off and sets things via a touch screen. Advanced RV custom designs how it is used. When I went back to ARV on this trip they installed a software update on ours.

Silverleaf Total Coach System

Description from the Silverleaf website:

Total Coach

SilverLeaf has long been providing "one-stop shopping" for all the engine and chassis information that a coach owner could desire. Now we're also offering the same sort of intelligent integration for the rest of the coach. Our Total Coach™ System ties together the Inverter, Generator, Transfer Switch, Tank Levels, and much more to provide a smart, simple way to automate, monitor, and control your coach.

The center of the system is the Total Coach Monitor. This graphic control panel can be compared to an extra-large VMS for the galley. It provides instant indicators of the status of every system, and detailed information is never more than a keystroke away. In fact, a single touch of the screen will start or stop the generator, inverter, water pump, or any other device that is part of the system. It is simple and very convenient.

The Total Coach System is modular, and SilverLeaf customizes the system for each RV manufacturer. The Total Coach System is also appropriate for bus conversions and major coach upgrades.

This is an example of a readout that shows the battery status of each and every cell for voltage and temperature and the aggregate range of all.

[mojoman]

The system is really nice but I am stuck in the dark ages as I refuse to give up my dumb phone. I have mostly Blue sea systems panels and will have quite a few controllers for the various DC charging stuff. It will remind me of my days in the engine rooms of the old navy steamers.

[Davydd]

I understand. I was a Main Propulsion Assistant on a US Navy warship. I suspect today's Navy has Silverleaf equivalent type technology.

I just added another photo to my post to show there is stuff behind the magic curtain. I also discovered that if you take out those four screws you can see and pull that panel out that there is more behind the second curtain.

[mojoman]

Having operated 300-1200lbs plants in the navy, I still remember the automated 600lb plant that would drop the load regularly for no reason at sea, but that was back in the 70's. I imagine things has progressed a bit by now.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by mojoman

I imagine things has progressed a bit by now.

Oh, I'm sure...

My wife took this pic at her ophthalmologist's office:

[pattonsr]

David,

The words you quoted from the Silverleaf website were written in 2006 but the concept hasn't changed. A good example of the usefulness of the Silverleaf monitor is shown by the detailed information on the Lithium cells. I wish Silverleaf would update their website with current examples of what they do. But seeing how they mostly work with Class A vendors directly, the website is an afterthought.

Do you have a screen that shows what amps are going in and out of the batteries? Is there a screen for the solar panels?

.

[markopolo]

I really like the detailed info re: lithium battery status

[Davydd]

I did some experimenting this past week and will do some more when I get home and parked this week. We have been on the road since we got Alvar January 26 and passed 10,000 miles today.

After a "duh!" Moment I realized I could shut off the inverter and 115v systems which would revert us to boondocking capability like 99.9% of Class Bs. The result is we could save about 4-5 amps per hour battery depletion. That kind of battery management would extend a boondocking stay over a week continuously parked which is something I doubt we would ever do.

[pattonsr]

Does the Silverleaf show the amps going into and out of the battery bank? Would you turn off the inverter only at night?

[booster]

Originally Posted by markopolo

I really like the detailed info re: lithium battery status

X2. One of the questions that has been brought up about the lithium batteries is if they will ever need to be rebalanced over time and conditions. With that screen available, keeping track of the that issue is turned into a simple task.

[Davydd]

I'll probably not bother to turn off the inverter since our usage never comes close to needing to. I just know it can be done now.

The Silverleaf shows a constant rate of amperage charge or negative drain. With 600ah of actual battery programmed as available for use I can assume 1% change either direction is 6ah battery capacity in or out. With inverter on I can safely assume a drain of 10ah though actual calculation overnight when solar is not a factor it seems closer to 7ah when not actively using the van (but with refrigerator on). I will just assume 10ah for estimating, planning and anticipating purposes. Simple rule of thumb: one overnight stay with electrically cooking dinner, making four Keurig cups , keeping B at 54 degrees while sleeping (heater on at that temp) and watching a movie or some TV can be replenished driving one hour.

Battery equalizing is constant from what I can tell. We haven't been plugged in since February 23 when it dawned on me, why bother? That's also when it dawned on me I was paying high prices for camp sites for either location convenience or the only available. If we go to Alaska again I will probably never pay for a campground because it is legal to park overnight in a road pullover.

[pattonsr]

Could you post a picture of the Silverleaf screen thats shows the amperage charge or negative drain? The picture of the Lithium status screen was worth a thousand words.

Also is your portable Max Burton induction cooktop the 6200 or 6400 model?

[Davydd]

66 days of ownership, immediately being on the road and 11,033 miles later we are finally home to get organized. We actually worked out well considering we were home long enough in January to load up Alvar in minus 5 degree weather. Now we will have a few weeks before we head out again to get a little bit better organized (I hope.) We have been coast to coast in -5 to 85 degree weather. Oddly, we came home to Minnesota today in the warmest weather of the whole trip. So much for getting away from the cold.

[avanti]

Davydd,
Is there anything more you can tell us about your efforts to further winterize Alvair? I am gearing up to make some mods to this end in our Legend and am looking for ideas to steal. I understand ARV's general approach to this, but you have suggested that you have been doing some tuning.

[mikes47]

I'll share a couple of things ARV did for Imagine. 1) Added a second heat exchanger behind the driver side rear tires to circulate air warmed by the hydronic system (primary heat exchanger remains under the kitchen counter), 2) added snaps to the max-air vent to firmly hold a thick insulating blanket in place to block down-drafts, 3) added a zip-in thick insulated blanket to block drafts from the rear doors ... use instead of the (summertime) zip-in insect screening for the rear doors, 4) the heated floor, 5) insulated reflective cab window inserts that attach with suction cups to front window and both side windows. The lined, heavy drapery-like fabric curtains do a remarkable job of keeping the cold from transferring to the inside via the side windows.

[markopolo]

Those all sound like great ideas to me. The zip in for the rear doors should really help. All of them added together would make for a comfy coach.

[booster]

We saw the suction cup window blankets when we ran across a couple from Germany in their tiny Renault Champion at Devil's tower. They said they really did work well and kept the van much warmer, and cooler. Their only complaint on them was they were pretty bulky to store, which was a big issue in their tiny van, would be much less of an issue in a 24' one. Apparently, per them, the suction cup style is very common in Europe.