Advancing Alvar

[bobojay]

Originally Posted by tinman22

Really appreciate your sharing this information from an owner/driver perspective -first hand! I am very intertested in any comments as to how well the rear axle air ride system is performing. Recently, I viewed the drive video for the Liesure Unity. It appears that there is much sway when exiting a driveway, etc. The comments suggested that their sway condition was normal for their product, and that MB Sprinters all rode rather harshly.

Having owned a class C Sprinter RV like the Leisure Unity, (we had a Winnebago), I can tell you the driveway sway is bad if you are not prepared for it by going slow. It's much worse than it is with a class B van Sprinter

[Davydd]

The VB Air Suspension changes the ride of a Sprinter completely. It was worth every penny. As far as I know right now Advanced RV is the only approved North American RV converter. They are so busy they are no longer doing custom work on other brands and I believe some Bs with the placement of under body improvements would make it impossible without major revisions.

It takes that driveway sway out, smooths the bumps and backend jarring bouncing and makes taking curves easier with less body lean.

[tinman22]

Thanks, Dave, for your reply. That air ride system is a must, for me - so, I guess that cinches what brand I will go with. I also thought that other units' designs might not permit that particular installation.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by Davydd

The VB Air Suspension changes the ride of a Sprinter completely. It was worth every penny. As far as I know right now Advanced RV is the only approved North American RV converter. They are so busy they are no longer doing custom work on other brands and I believe some Bs with the placement of under body improvements would make it impossible without major revisions.

It takes that driveway sway out, smooths the bumps and backend jarring bouncing and makes taking curves easier with less body lean.

It looks like Airstream is also installing the VB Air Suspension. Colonial recently sold an Interstate 9-passenger EXT Lounge model. See this link:
http://www.colonialairstream.com/2015-a ... index.html

They may have had it installed by VB USA before they started the conversion. Hopefully it will soon be a MB option in USA like it is in Europe.


- - Mike
2013 Airstream Interstate from 2012 Sprinter 3500 tall & long

[wincrasher]

Wow, from that price they must be asking $5,000 for that option alone. Airstream always has high prices on options.

[Davydd]

VB Air Suspension is not a Mercedes Benz factory option but there are other certified installers in America that Airstream could go to or they may have gone through the certification themselves. mercedes Benz does approve the after market installation. It is expensive because the whole rear suspension is replaced.

[mlts22]

The last time I saw an air suspension system that good was a Lincoln Town Car I leased for a period of time back in the late 1990s.

VB Air is offered for other makes... but I will be genuinely surprised to see -any- RV place try to upfit anything but Sprinters with them.

[booster]

We have 5000# Airlift bags in out Chevy 190 Roadtrek, and I have been very seriously considering removing the overload spring leaf, and maybe one or two of the lesser spring leafs. It would be very interesting to see how much the ride improved with the much less progressive air bags handling more of of the load. Still may do that mod.

[tmshih]

Just watched the new commercial for the 2015 Sprinter van. I'm trying to picture Davidd doing this on the outskirts of Las Vegas, "Yee haaw! Air Alvar!". Anybody here treat their rigs this way?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUpopjIoS5U

[Davydd]

In reading about needs for a second alternator in various discussions it has come clear in a Sprinter it is a big plus. The Sprinter has very sophisticated computer controls and its alternator is designed to satisfy the engine first. ARV chose to not interfere with that and installed a second alternator for the house batteries and installed its own computerized management system for that task. I can't speak for Promasters and Transits in this.

My experience so far is we can stop in an afternoon, cook a two pot dinner on the electric induction oven, watch prime time TV, not think very much about our electrical usage, run the heater all night (fan mostly) and get up in the morning and brew four cups of Keurig coffee. We even baked scones in the convection oven. What does this mean in layman' terms? It means we use over 200 ah of battery which is equivalent to needing four lead-acid batteries. We have 800ah of lithium ion batteries. I've found that less than an hour on the highway fully recharges the batteries 100%. ARVS says it charges up to 300ah in an ideal condition. In monitoring it I am observing a charge rate consistently over 200ah and so far observed 240. It is hard to monitor as I can't see the Silverleaf readout while driving so we have only spot checked. But one hour a day driving is about all it takes.

I think dwelling on air conditioning is an overly anal thought. We are 22 days on the road in the southwest with temperatures so far up to 85 degrees in the desert. So far we have not used our air conditioning one second. I can guarantee you I will not be here after March. yet we have enough battery reserve for any special circumstance. Even up to 85 degrees so far we can maintain cabin temperature for our cat with 6 window vents and the MaxAir 10 speed fan. Of course, like any normal person, if we absolutely need air conditioning we could simply camp at an electrical hookup CG. If you pay for a campsite today you will more than naught get one. We are running about one day in five so far with electrical hookups. One time we did not bother to hookup. I'm kind of enjoying this electrical independence and having full use of our electrical systems.

I call all this freedom. It changes your traveling style from boondocking on the Las Vegas Strip to driving out into the desert to pulling over wherever you can without hassle. You come out weekly to dump, take on water and do laundry.

[markopolo]

Your lithium batteries are great for what you describe. They don't need to be fully charged ever. Your battery life is still described in "cycles" but you have lots of cycles in those batteries. LiFePO4 batteries in RV's

But, that same use would not be optimum care for lead acid batteries. They need to be fully charged regularly. You can get them up to 90% or so with a few hours driving but repeatedly undercharging them like that will shorten their life. With lead acid batteries and a proper charger I'd plug in when the opportunity arises if you want the batteries to last.

Thanks for sharing the numbers. 200 amps, 240 amps ........ wow! Everything seems to be working great. 22 days on the road already!

[booster]

Originally Posted by markopolo

Your lithium batteries are great for what you describe. They don't need to be fully charged ever. Your battery life is still described in "cycles" but you have lots of cycles in those batteries. LiFePO4 batteries in RV's

But, that same use would not be optimum care for lead acid batteries. They need to be fully charged regularly. You can get them up to 90% or so with a few hours driving but repeatedly undercharging them like that will shorten their life. With lead acid batteries and a proper charger I'd plug in when the opportunity arises if you want the batteries to last.

Thanks for sharing the numbers. 200 amps, 240 amps ........ wow! Everything seems to be working great. 22 days on the road already!

X2 on what Mark says, the being able to be in the middle of state of charge all the time is the huge advantage of the lithiums over lead acid of all types.

It will be interesting to see if the AGM battery manufacturers try to react to the issue as lithium prices come down over time.

The comment of having the right charger if you have lead acid is one, I think, that is severely ignored by most of the RV manufacturers, and even most of the charger manufacturers to this point, and will be critical if the lead acid batteries will be able to compete.

With the way things are right now, if you can't have lithium, about the only way to be able to do the every few days short to moderate drive routine is to have another way to top the batteries, at least once every 7-10 days. A good shore charge with a charger that is capable of filling the batteries is one way, but you need the shore power to do it. The other way that I think would work pretty well is to have a big vehicle alternator to get the batteries to the 90% range Marko mentioned quickly, and also a solar setup that has a very good charging program so it is capable of doing that 2-4 hour topping of the batteries once the alternator has done its thing. That way a couple hours of drive + 2-4 hours of sun would get your batteries full and happy in a span of 4-6 hours.

[Davydd]

Weight and size is another factor. I have the equivalent of about 13 AGM batteries in expected electrical output. I don't think there is any practical way to put that many in a B. My batteries basically fit where an Onan generator would go. We haven't had a need or even came close to needing to do the engine idling which has been another worry and concern of some.

Solar as I guessed may be an after thought. The winter desert sun despite being cloudless doesn't contribute much with the low sun angle and short days, isn't needed while driving in the open and would probably be negligible camping in conifer or diciduos forests. Driving is so efficient that I charged my batteries about 24 ah just changing campsites at Catalina SP in AZ. So even if you long term stay, driving for errands or visiting places most likely will do the job.

I don't think AGM will have an answer to this once people catch on and understand the capabilities of lithium ion. The biggest issue which Technomadia brought out was lithium ion battery efficiency over time might be over estimated. We will see. I think ARV's BMS is a little more sophisticated than theirs. They used the same GBS batteries.

[avanti]

Davydd,
When you get a chance, could you comment on the details of your winter/plumbing experience so far? I understand ARV's approach to heating the pipes and tanks using residual Espar heat, and you have already reported that it worked well. What I am wondering is whether and how they have protected the periphery of the system, e.g. dump valves, outside shower fixture, etc. Are you able to dump in cold weather? Do you have to be careful to keep antifreeze in the tanks? Thanks.

[Davydd]

We put about 20 gallons of water in the tank to start out. For the first 10 days we were always below freezing and camped down t 5 deg. The water system was never a problem. We didn't use any anti-freeze in grey system except for the bathroom floor trap. All the other traps are Hepvo valves. We pretty much kept the van heated including the three days we were at home and didn't sleep in it. For the black tank I would pour a little bit of anti- freeze in with each use. We used a gallon. We didn't do our first dump until we got to Sedona (warm weather). We will do our third dump tomorrow or day 24 on the road.

The outside shower faucet did freeze up on the test at ARV in freezing weather. We are going to change the shower system when we return to ARV March 30. I want an inside shut off. I haven't winterized yet but ARV has a simple system to add anti-freeze to the water lines but not the tank so de winterizing should be easier I hope.

[pattonsr]

Davydd,

What has to be done with the macerator to keep it from freezing?

Going back to the past, did you ever get the small (4.25 lb.) Worthington propane cylinder to put in one of the rear floor compartments so you could use the propane grill?

[Davydd]

Anti-freeze would keep it from freezing. I seriously doubt I would ever try to dump in freezing weather on the road. With over a week capacity one would think they could plan ahead. My idea of cold camping is above freezing during the day in the desert or on top of a mountain and below freezing only at night. We are in Idyllwild, CA on top of San Jacinto Mountain today and it may go below freezing tonight.

We never got the 4 lb propane bottle. We might not. We have been using the electric induction burner outside more than inside. Works better, faster and seems more convenient. Also have been using the convection oven more. We carry an electric crockpot (unused so far this trip) and a Dutch oven for charcoal cooking.

[pattonsr]

Davydd,

If you used the macerator in warm weather, then wouldn't some water be left in the pump? So when you add anti-freeze to the gray water tank via the shower drain, wouldn't running the macerator briefly be a good idea. Or am I over thinking the issue?

The Worthington 4.25 lb cylinder is 11.8 " high and 9.1" in diameter. How deep are the 3 storage compartments in the rear floor?

[Davydd]

You are over thinking but that is quite common in these forums.

The middle compartment will hold the propane canister. I published some dimensions earlier and I think the two small side compartments might be only 11" deep.

[avanti]

Actually, macerators are quite susceptible to freeze damage. Pattonsr's suggested COA is well-advised.