Advancing Alvar

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by Mike

My microwave is at eye level in my Roadtrek.

Certain Sprinter models by Roadtrek, Airstream and Winnebago equate sales as good with that design with the same theory a McDonalds hamburger is good.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Certain Sprinter models by Roadtrek, Airstream and Winnebago equate sales as good with that design with the same theory a McDonalds hamburger is good.

I like McDonalds hambugers but I LOVE burger king whoppers.

[booster]

Lithium Ion batteries can be discharged down to 20% safely so you actually get more amp hours than AGMs.

I know almost nothing about lithium batteries (as they are beyond my reach anyway) except that you have to have a low voltage shutoff on them because if they go totally dead they are ruined.

I did see this about cycle life vs depth of discharge. IIRC they look a better than the AGM or wet cells for number of cycles, but like the others, get many more cycles at the lower depths of discharge.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a...ased_batteries

[pattonsr]

Davydd,

I believe your solar uses an Outback FLEXmax 60 charge controller. It can be monitored by the MATE display which is usually mounted on the side of the refrigerator. The Silverleaf HMS360 touch screen monitor talks to the MATE via a serial interface. I don't think the serial interface includes the charge controller. So I would assume one can use the MATE to see what is happening with the solar charge or maybe Advanced RV mounts the charge controller so it can be seen?

One thing I would want for sure on an Advanced RV with a large battery bank is a DC monitoring device. Most people are used to a Trimetric standalone monitor that has a shunt for the batteries. Well Outback has their own, the FLEXnet DC, and it uses the MATE as the display device. It does put data on serial interface so in theory Silverleaf could interpret it and use the fancy HMS360 to display results. But as I understand it Newell and Foretravel Class A's don't have it so Silverleaf at this time is not writing code to interpret the data stream. But you can use the MATE to see the SOC (state of charge) which is the gas gauge for the large battery bank. I would insist on this being implemented if it hasn't already. Would you drive a car with no fuel gauge? Also it is very useful at times when you want to chase down phantom drains on the batteries. The shunt captures everything going in and out of the batteries.

Mike N. is very aware of the FLEXnet DC. It was discussed when they were looking seriously at solar. I just do not know of the outcome.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Mike,

Advanced RV was working on non-propane, no generator off grid Bs long before Roadtrek. They've never made grandiose comments like running air-conditioning for 9 hours on batteries.

For me it is a balance for what I want to achieve as I mentioned and right now it appears my battery capacity and solar capacity will be about half of what Advanced RV is capable of putting into their B.

The diesel powered hot water and heat systems first put into a Great West Van (2011) by Mike Neundorfer's request and every subsequent Advanced RV was probably the first step in eliminating propane in Sprinters. I am sure others have created systems but I am just as sure it was Neundorfer who did the butt kicking and has gotten some of the major B converters out of their cookie cutter thinking on this.

Advanced-RV has only been in existence since 2012, according to their website. I'll take their word.
Roadtrek formally announced the RS E-Trek, and that they were taking orders for them, on September 21, 2012. I have to assume they were "working on it" for some time before that, possibly as far back as 2011, as it was clearly a major project.
I would think that implies some overlap on their respective no propane, diesel generator, solar topped off, all electric, projects. At best, it's a tie, even if you do count MN's request for GWV to add diesel water and heat on one of his motorhomes.
In any case, we all look forward with interest to the process, and your progress, and the final outcome.
Good luck with it.

[Caped Crusader]

Davydd, could this be a 70th birthday present? It would sure be a good one!
I couldn't afford one, but hey, if you got the money, and it makes you happy, then congrats, and enjoy the heck out of it.

[Davydd]

Mike, Advanced RV formally went in business May 1, 2012 when their first van arrived. I was their first visitor the following week. They already had plans and systems drawn up and announced and Mike N had owned a Great West Van for a year that he had many of the ideas already incorporated that Great West has since been using. There was no secret at the time what was developing. I doubt Roadtrek had much beforehand and as sloppily as they put theirs together with their unproven grandiose claims of 9 hours on AC I suspect it was in reactionary haste. Putting it another way both Great West Vans and Advanced RV were building them without the fanfare before anyone had an inkling of Roadtrek's E-Trek almost five months later. Roadtrek to Advanced RV is like Samsung to Apple, IMO.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by Caped Crusader

Davydd, could this be a 70th birthday present? It would sure be a good one!
I couldn't afford one, but hey, if you got the money, and it makes you happy, then congrats, and enjoy the heck out of it.

Crusader,

It is spending our children's inheritance.

It is pretty much a case of we have now traveled a lot in a B and successively we've built up desires of things we want or got frustrated in situations. As was the case with our previous Pleasure-way Plateau and now our Great West Van Legend, both excellent RVs, there were things we desire or wanted but could not achieve with remodeling.

[Davydd]

Here is The Fit RV's blog post on Advanced Fest.

http://www.thefitrv.com/blog/fun-at-the ... pen-house/

[Mike]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Roadtrek to Advanced RV is like Samsung to Apple, IMO.

I couldn't agree more.

[stanw909]

If it'll here. Sportsmobile has been doing heavy solar , big battery, inverter systems without propane and generators for a decade at least. I worry about the lithiums burning up as they are known to do on occasion. Sure wouldn't have them under the bed anyway. I would have the diesel genny and not screw with the very expensive MB engine. I also dislike running a generator but it is still the best way to get power rain or shine. I would have the Advanced guys figure out some noise deadening to lower the DBs on the generator. I like everything your doing (Except genny delete)but would also maybe include engine heat exchanger for hotwater if you are not travelling in freezing temperatures. I can hardly wait to see the Finnished(unabashed pun intended) product.

[booster]

As Stan says, Sportsmobile has been doing a lot of this kind of stuff for quite a while, but they do it in a lower tech sort of way, can't say if that is better or worse. The yacht folks have also been doing it for a long time, and are on the cutting edge of the technology. The "expedition" vehicle folks have also been doing a combination of high and low tech a long time.

IMO a discussion if Advanced or Roadtrek was first is pretty mute. They were both late to the dance.

[Mike]

Davydd,
You can't take it with you. Might as well enjoy it while you can.
stanw909,
I read on an off grid living blog somewhere recently about lithium ion batteries needing a low power disconnect, as well as the occasional flame/boom thing. The reason being, if they ever reach fully discharged, they're done/ruined. I can't confirm or deny that comment. I also prefer having the generator as a power source, when needed. I said the same somewhere else on here, if they (Suburban, et al) can make a quieter furnace, how about it Onan??? Also agree about not using the van's engine to generate power. It seems almost eco-unfriendly.
booster,
Sportsmobile, of course, the poor man's Advanced-RV. Interesting that the DIY approach, and some of the lower tech custom builds (SMB), and after market installs have reportedly performed better than the factory installed packages (Roadtrek), so far. I'm sure there are others that have dabbled in it as well. Maybe some from Europe (Germany?) that we just don't hear about.

[Davydd]

In regard to the generator. I just checked. I have 13.9 hours on the generator in four years, at least a year's nights of travel and 62,000 miles on your current Great West Van B. I would say that is a very expensive 13.9 hours considering most of those hour were to either brew coffee or test the generator. I seriously doubt one could abuse a diesel engine with those kind of hours in the same time. Other than the generator, there is not a lot of need for propane. So both are out.

Advanced RV is not exactly late to the dance in the parlance they did nothing for years. They are only a two year old company and these systems were in their plans from day one, or actually one of the reasons the company was formed.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Davydd

In regard to the generator. I just checked. I have 13.9 hours on the generator in four years, at least a year's nights of travel and 62,000 miles on your current Great West Van B. I would say that is a very expensive 13.9 hours considering most of those hour were to either brew coffee or test the generator. I seriously doubt one could abuse a diesel engine with those kind of hours in the same time. Other than the generator, there is not a lot of need for propane. So both are out.

Davy,
Are you saying that the exotic batteries, the high-idle option from MB, the second alternator, etc, are cheaper than simply getting a conventional propane/genset setup? If so, I am surprised. If not, then I guess I still don't understand what the advantages are. I have always found the propane system to be totally trouble-free. And, if you use it as little as you say, a tank of propane will last a long time. I realize that the "single fuel" vision is appealing in the abstract, but, as I said, when I though it through, it just didn't make sense to me. What am I missing?

[stanw909]

I think if the engine ends up in limp mode 200 miles from MB mechanic that would be a real drag. What is MB's take on warranty if someone were to accidentally clog the EGR system. Is there a way to prove it was not operator error absolving themselves of responsibility?

[Mike]

Originally Posted by stanw909

I think if the engine ends up in limp mode 200 miles from MB mechanic that would be a real drag. What is MB's take on warranty if someone were to accidentally clog the EGR system. Is there a way to prove it was not operator error absolving themselves of responsibility?

I would think accidentally or otherwise, if the EGR is clogged, the first thing MB would do is check the service records, and the OBD computer for data that might indicate the cause. Big brother seems to be watching everything these days, and it wouldn't surprise me if there is a lot more (consider the size of a 128GB storage card for your phone or tablet) operational information archived in it, for just such a situation. MB undoubtedly has "the technology" whether explicitly stated in the documentation or not. Any modified alternator/generator configuration that hasn't already voided any warranty regarding the EGR anyway, might give them a clue as to what happened. It is a good point, about what recourse an owner would have?

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by Mike

I would think accidentally or otherwise, if the EGR is clogged, the first thing MB would do is check the service records, and the OBD computer for data that might indicate the cause. Big brother seems to be watching everything these days, and it wouldn't surprise me if there is a lot more (consider the size of a 128GB storage card for your phone or tablet) operational information archived in it, for just such a situation. MB undoubtedly has "the technology" whether explicitly stated in the documentation or not. Any modified alternator/generator configuration that hasn't already voided any warranty regarding the EGR anyway, might give them a clue as to what happened. It is a good point, about what recourse an owner would have?

i think your being unfair. Limp mode can happen to any diesel made by any manufacturer of any diesel after 2007-when dpf's started in usa.

my criticism is that there are far fewer MB sprinter dealers/repairers then the big 3 in USA.

[bikerbill]

I have spoken with Mike the owner of Advanced. He has worked with Mercedes and knows the limits of engine idle and MB has approved his concept. I would not worry one bit about limp-home, etc. If I could have afforded it, we'd be owning an Advanced instead of an Airstream Intestate. And yes, I'd much prefer to NOT have a propane tank, a noisy propane heater, a noisy vibration generator replaced by QUIET provided by an inverter and an occasional running of the MB engine way up front. Not to mention the safety issue of tunnels in the eastern US where NO propane is allowed or having to stop and turn off the propane tank.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by avanti

Davy,
Are you saying that the exotic batteries, the high-idle option from MB, the second alternator, etc, are cheaper than simply getting a conventional propane/genset setup? If so, I am surprised. If not, then I guess I still don't understand what the advantages are. I have always found the propane system to be totally trouble-free. And, if you use it as little as you say, a tank of propane will last a long time. I realize that the "single fuel" vision is appealing in the abstract, but, as I said, when I though it through, it just didn't make sense to me. What am I missing?

What you are missing is what I had just said - 13.9 hours. Clue. I don't use the generator. I abhor it. And if I desire to spend more time off grid camping it would be in places where generators were not allowed or desired. The hot water and heating off the diesel, elimination of a propane cooktop and going to a compressor refrigerator basically eliminates all need for propane except for a generator. I could continue my current habits with two conventional batteries if I desired. I desire to expand my off-grid capabilities but not with a generator.

Everyone seems to agonize over this running the M-B diesel more for M-B protection than the users/owners convenience. The M-B rep was in the room when all the idol options were discussed. They don't void the warranties. Think about it. M-B offers the high idol option and for what? They didn't object but admittedly did not endorse. Obviously, they have nothing to gain by endorsing.

While camping I don't recall ever running our generator more than enough time to brew a pot of coffee. I was buying into that 2 hour exercise crapola initially until I researched and discovered it was aimed at gasoline generators and gummy carbs. I know I'll be told not so on that for this and that but 9 years experience tells me different now. My two generators owned have never failed to start and I did out of curiosity test it last winter when it was below 0 F. and it started right up. At home in the driveway is where I put most of those 13.9 hours on the current generator for that so called exercising. Usually once I started it I let it run there and turned everything else on for testing often just before a trip. So in essence it is now something I don't feel I need especially if I add additional batteries and solar. Cheaper? I don't know. But how many people have generators, propane, extra batteries and solar? So I guess cheaper if you get rid of the generator and propane tank and opt for more storage and less weight.