Advancing Alvar

[Davydd]

I received some more information on our RV as it gets closer to completion. There were a couple of things I was hoping to get but development time ran out on me. It would have been nice, but along with missing out on 4x4, we really cared not to delay any longer. The piece de resistance, however, will be implemented and I can't wait to see it. Here is another little item I had added. There was a void space when we did our bed revision that I asked for a pull out bin to be added.



The solar is good news. The wattage had been fluctuating but now I now it will be three panels totally 480 watts. They will be low profile design to be nearly impossible to see from the ground. Each panel will have its own MPPT controller. So, if one panel is compromised by shade the other two won't. Now the good part. Each panel is separated by diodes into 3 zones (don't ask me to explain.) What that means if just part of one panel is affected by shade the other two zones will still provide maximum output. Seems rather sophisticated. I am not sure the manufacturer or source. In February we hope to give all this a test in the Arizona desert.

[mlts22]

I like the solar array setup, and I think this is going to be the wave of the future, just because a little bid of shade on one panel can affect the yield of the entire thing. The independent CCs can't hurt either.

Thank you for the info on the latch. For me, that is one item I don't want to ever go cheap on, just because it is something used extremely often... and it is what separates my stuff from flying onto the floor while on the road.

[booster]

The solar setup is very interesting. What I have always heard is that if the panels are wired in series, shade on one drops them all, but if they are wired in parallel, they don't drop from partial shading. This is with a single controller. I wonder if Advanced has come across some other anomaly that is happening that having 3 controllers takes care of, or if the information we have heard in the past isn't totally accurate?

[mlts22]

I would also guess that having multiple controllers allows for different voltages and amperages. That way, one bank of solar panels might be best in shade are independent from a bank that is designed for sun. I'd guess it also allows for different angles as well, for more light during shoulder hours. It certainly allows for different voltages, so a 48 volt panel can be used since it requires thinner wires than a 12 volt panel.

Long term, I wouldn't be surprised to see a MPPT controller have multiple inputs so each panel feeds its electricity individually.

[Davydd]

We ordered our Advanced RV just in time. Since you special order your Sprinter to your specification that alone takes 4-5 months and then they have a 14 week production schedule. For us we are talking nearly 9 months. Part of that is because of me and a lot of design development and the fact we were in no hurry to want delivery any sooner. However, a new buyer just posted on the Facebook page, "B"ing in an Advanced RV that they were told 15 months for an Advanced RV. I imagine they will be making some plans to handle the business soon because I am going to make a prediction. Come about the first of February they might be deluged with inquiries.

[mikes47]

If Pam and I had not decided back in September '14 to build IMAGINE on the 2013 Sprinter in stock, we would have had to wait 12 months. It's nice to see the demand for ARV is steady and growing.

[Tenbike2]

I was told that they are finished ordering 2015 chassis. My order which will be placed in May will be for a 2016. We placed our deposit the beginning of December. It (G'day?) was promised the end of March or beginning of April 2016. Lead time is going up as Davvyd predicted.

[bobojay]

Seems tremendous growth since last spring. Mike & the crew are going to have to figure this out if they want to keep growing at this pace. Got to be mighty satisfying to Mike, Marsha, and the ARV crew.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by Tenbike2

I was told that they are finished ordering 2015 chassis. My order which will be placed in May will be for a 2016. We placed our deposit the beginning of December. It (G'day?) was promised the end of March or beginning of April 2016. Lead time is going up as Davvyd predicted.

I believe ours might be the first 2015 chassis going out the door. Could be there is no sense planning on ordering any more 2015 chassis if there is no start before September 2015 on the build scheduled. Two more just announced on the Facebook group receiving their vans today. One is planning on installing a compost toilet.

It is kind fun, exciting and challenging working directly with ARV staff in working up your B and going through the long "birthing" process rather than checking off a list of standards and options with a dealer.

At Advanced Fest last May Mercedes Benz told us there would be no new model Sprinter until 2019. That doesn't mean they won't be making incremental improvements each year. But you know, you just can't wait forever. Computers and smartphones have been driving us crazy like this for years.

[Tenbike2]

Davvyd if I remember you placed your order May of this year and were willing to wait for a 2015 chassis. My deposit was December of this year and will be built on a 2016 chassis. The waiting time has increased dramatically since your order and I only see it going up. It is a good problem for ARV to have but I hope that they will be able to maintain the quality and willingness to work with the customer to meet their unique needs. Mike told me that the max that they wish to build in a year is 50 and he wasn't sure he wanted to build that many. Davydd you may have hit the sweet spot for building your RV. Good luck it's getting close! Jim

[Davydd]

Tenbike2,

Mike told me the same of 50 as a maximum feasible goal based I think on facilities and labor. Mike went into this venture to try and make the best Class B he can. All decisions so far have leaned toward that goal. I don't know if there is a sweet spot. There will always be improvements coming out of Advanced RV. However, I was the first visitor to Advanced RV in May 2012 when they officially announced and I did agonizingly wait for two full years before pulling the trigger. I'm glad I did because any earlier and I would not have gotten too much better than what I already had in our Great West Van. It gave me some time to think about what I wanted too. Dozens of CAD drawings later that I fed and results will be forthcoming. My problem is I am already working on my version 2. Design never stops.

[mikes47]

When Pam and I visited ARV in September '14, Brittany Immormino mentioned in casual conversation that they were outgrowing their current production space. I inferred from that conversation that they were actively looking for a larger facility where the cabinet shop could be co-located with the rest of the up-fitting shop. I wonder if a new space would tempt Mike N to expand beyond that 50 units/year? I wonder, too whether I would want them to expand too much. There is a tension between production volume and quality - in in the case of ARV another tension element is their unique approach to working with folks on those unique wants/desires. Kind of a nice dilemma to have for ARV in a way.

[Tenbike2]

Davydd when you made your deposit on alvar how many were ahead of you in the que? I was told today that there were 18 ahead of me in the que. I made my deposit at the beginning of December and today on the "B" ing forum someone posted that they were number 26 in the que. You predicted an increase in the numbers that would be making deposits. I think this is even sooner than you thought. Again a good problem for Advanced to have but also a challenge to maintain there commitment to quality and customization. Jim

[Davydd]

Jim,

I never asked. I do know the ARV (Myst) that went out last week was after mine and Mikes47's Imagine was even later and will be going out next week. Ours is now scheduled for February 6th. That's a delay so maybe there is another in the que ahead of me. I never asked. I've created some challenges to be worked out so the progress has been slower than the normal process. Another announced today they signed up and said Spring 2016.

[mikes47]

From the brief conversation I had with Brittany, I learned that they number the "delivered units" ... perhaps as a function of RVIA reporting or some such. At any rate, I think there were clearly other clients who placed their orders prior to us; but because we chose the in-stock partially started 2013 van, they were able to work our unit into the production schedule ahead of others whose units had yet to arrive from Germany. I think that might be how we end up with delivered unit #24 (or so).

I am delighted to be getting IMAGINE so soon. But I also wonder: given the pace of ARV innovation, what will be available to the folks who take delivery in the Spring of 2016? I can't wait for the ARV Fest in May 2016 to see the innovations.

[cargovanconversion]

I got into this thread late in the game and it took some time to catch up.

Quite a bit of useful information that can help me and other diy'ers.

My biggest questions remain with the battery system. It will be the wave of the future, but at this time, there is still very little actual documented, real RV life experience with them. I hope you'll report about your experiences too.

I haven't heard much about the flexible solar panels. Do you already know the brand or their backing material, thickness or top layer?

Keep writing. Happy Holidays.

Van Williams.

[Davydd]

I don't have any other information on the solar panels that I haven't already mentioned. It hasn't been my primary focus and have left it to ARV to work out.

Technomadia seems to be doing OK with a similar LiFePO4 battery system and I believe Advanced RV's will be more sophisticated. The sailing industry seems to be earlier adopters than the RV industry. If you go to their discussion boards you will see much more in depth discussion on lithium ion batteries. When out at sea you simply can't make a decision to go plug in on any given night like you can an RV.

If you want a Class B you are saddled with a half dozen major converters and most seem rather conservative. I think also the majority of camp sites for RVs have electrical hookups at state parks as do most all private campgrounds. So, there is not a lot of incentive to develop or market boondocking battery systems since those are traditional RV destinations. Roadtrek seems to be embracing the off the grid concept. Advanced RV is led by a guy whose interest is in that area. What I can tell, simply because of weight and location opportunities, AGMs reach a practical limit that cannot match LiFePO4 battery potential in a Class B van.

[pattonsr]

Several years ago Lifeline sponsored a series of tests with an experienced sailor who had trashed his LIfeline AGMs.

The conclusion was that the Lifeline AGMs had to be completely charged at least once a week or their lifespan was greatly reduced. For a boater, that means stopping in port to hookup at least once a week or running the onboard generator to bring the AGMs from 80% to 100% (absorb). The amount of generator time was excessive so most boaters just bulk charge from 50% to 80%. That results in a one year lifetime for the batteries.

Lithium batteries do not have to be completely recharged. There is no penalty for stopping short when charging. One can bulk charge which will leave them close to full. I think it is obvious why boaters are the first to try Lithium batteries. No need to stop in port to find an electrical hookup and no need to run the generator for long periods.

It seems to me that extensive cruising is equivalent to RV boon-docking which is now being addressed by Advanced RV and Roadtrek.

[Davydd]

Barry,

You make a point about AGM batteries that no one but full-timers seem to experience in going through AGM batteries in a short period of time. If you have a one or two battery AGM system more times than naught you will plug in at campgrounds and recharge your batteries 100%. If you have enough battery power to go off the grid for an extended period of time then you stand a chance of abusing your AGM batteries in not achieving a 100% charge the same as sailors experience. Since only AGM E-treks are about the only Class Bs in abundance with extended off-grid capability it is possible we haven't heard much yet because of the short period of time they've been out there. Or maybe in the United States they simply do not take full advantage and hit electrical plug in campgrounds as frequently as the one and two battery Class Bs do.

I'm sitting here typing this with a lithium ion battery on top of my lap and one in my shirt pocket. It is not like they are totally foreign.

[pattonsr]

The following was written around 2010. The author was in category 4 and wanted to know why his batteries did not last. The first category is an RV that plugs in to recharge. I believe Lithium will take over the Lifeline AGM market. It wouldn't surprise me if in the future Lifeline starts producing drop in Lithium batteries

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In the last chapter we wrote about the very poor service life that we were getting from batteries on Morgan’s Cloud—typically just a year or so.

Justin Godber at Lifeline, who provided us with new batteries, defined what expected battery life should be, depending on charge regime, assuming daily discharge to 50% and full time voyaging:


Fully charged after each discharge (not feasible on a voyaging boat). Estimated life: 6-9 Years.
Fully recharged at least once a week and equalized once a month. Estimated life: 4-6 Years.
Only recharged to 85% and equalized once a month. Estimated life: 2-4 years.
Only charged to 85% and never equalized. Estimated life: 1 year.

A Big Surprise
The big surprise in Justin’s recommendations is that he actually wants you to equalize his batteries and puts it in writing too. This is contrary to much of the “accepted wisdom” around AGM batteries, particularly that expounded in the yachting press. This misconception is so widespread that many battery chargers actually prevent you from starting an equalization cycle if you have them configured for AGM batteries and some of Justin’s competitors specifically forbid equalization.