Advancing Alvar

[Davydd]

mlts22,

I hadn't seen that Airstream Grand Tour until recently. They finally broke away from the Roadtrek cloning and put the kitchen galley in the right location. It's a pretty good floor plan. I looked at that desk in the floor plan and can't tell if it is fixed and immovable or is a flip up like they do to extend their kitchen counters. It kind of looks fixed and it looks as if it might be the same as the kitchen countertop. There are no photos of it and their website still confuses some of the photos with the older floor plan.

I wanted our desk when not in use out of the way because I wanted to free up the driver's seat with ample space clearance. You seem to only get that if you have a second row of passenger seats in a Class B and I definitely do not want any more seats.

I hadn't thought about Corian being more lightweight than granite. I knew with artificial stones you can go thinner which would make it lighter even if the densities were similar. We are getting an artificial quartz countertop which is similar to Silestone if you are familiar with that.

Advanced RV is also working with lightweight structural core materials that can be laminated with a matching cabinet finish or any finish you want. I haven't seen it yet but our stowable dining table may be made that way. Our computer desk will match the cabinet laminate so will be more invisible up against the wardrobe wall.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by Davydd

.....I hadn't seen that Airstream Grand Tour until recently. They finally broke away from the Roadtrek cloning and put the kitchen galley in the right location. It's a pretty good floor plan. I looked at that desk in the floor plan and can't tell if it is fixed and immovable or is a flip up like they do to extend their kitchen counters. It kind of looks fixed and it looks as if it might be the same as the kitchen countertop. There are no photos of it and their website still confuses some of the photos with the older floor plan.
....

Here are a couple of photos of the desk behind driver in the Interstate Grand Tour -- Courtesy of Colonial Airstream in NJ.

[Davydd]

Thanks for the find Boxster. I hadn't thought to check Colonial. Like Lichstinn with Winnebago, Colonial often provides more information than Airstream.

It is the countertop surface as I surmised. It flips up from the side and it looks, by judging by the seatbelt pillar post, that it might be about 6" further back than what I am installing. The size is similar with the back and wall side permanent ledges extending the flip up counter. Probably similar in overall size but does not have the notch since it is further back from the pillar. That cabinet end wall had to be back a little further with the TV right there or it would be too close.

I had thought about making my wardrobe cabinet even less wide than the 18" I settled on (down from 27" and as low as 16" wide) but decided not to after seeing how close the desk would be to the seat. I think you might have to lean more forward in the Airstream or sit more on the front edge. For as much use as I think it would get that would not have been all that bad. You'll have to see how the wardrobe cabinet ended up. I'm waiting for some more finished pictures. I will say this, the fireproof safe is humongous.

[Davydd]

Here is something you don't learn every day but is kind of good news. A discussion came online about a waterless plumbing trap or no need for a standard P trap you have to keep filled with water to prevent sewer odors from coming back through. Advanced RV saw the discussion and let me know they have been using the waterless trap in their RVs. It is called a Hepv0 trap that works on the principle of a collapsible one way valve that will allow flow in one direction. This will eliminate the problem of traps drying out in storage or sloshing out on the road. It will also eliminate the need to put the pink antifreeze in your traps when winterizing. And it saves space under a sink where you might want to store stuff. To be honest, I had never heard of it until the discussion came up.

http://www.hepvo.com

[Fastpaddler1]

Originally Posted by Davydd

mlts22,

I hadn't seen that Airstream Grand Tour until recently. They finally broke away from the Roadtrek cloning and put the kitchen galley in the right location. It's a pretty good floor plan. I looked at that desk in the floor plan and can't tell if it is fixed and immovable or is a flip up like they do to extend their kitchen counters. It kind of looks fixed and it looks as if it might be the same as the kitchen countertop. There are no photos of it and their website still confuses some of the photos with the older floor plan.

I wanted our desk when not in use out of the way because I wanted to free up the driver's seat with ample space clearance. You seem to only get that if you have a second row of passenger seats in a Class B and I definitely do not want any more seats.

I hadn't thought about Corian being more lightweight than granite. I knew with artificial stones you can go thinner which would make it lighter even if the densities were similar. We are getting an artificial quartz countertop which is similar to Silestone if you are familiar with that.

Advanced RV is also working with lightweight structural core materials that can be laminated with a matching cabinet finish or any finish you want. I haven't seen it yet but our stowable dining table may be made that way. Our computer desk will match the cabinet laminate so will be more invisible up against the wardrobe wall.

Davydd,
The artificial stone countertop which is what Silestone is really or quartz, is excellent, food safe, wont scratch, burn etc and even better than granite. I have it in my fancy kitchen at home. I have Corian in my PW but it scratches and will burn like laminate but can be polished down if it gets scratched. So your choice seems the best for any RV.
Al

[Davydd]

We have Silestone in our kitchen at home. I selected that when we remodeled about 6 years ago after extensive research. The ColorQuartz product is very similar, just a different company from what I can tell. They are both artificial quartz and not naturally mined, cut and polished like granite. Here is the website for it with the selection we made...

http://www.colorquartzstone.com/portfol ... cq766.html

This is their surface comparison chart comparing ColorQuartz with granite, laminate and solid surface.

http://www.colorquartzstone.com/technical-info.html

Our first Class B was a 2005 Pleasure-way Plateau with a plastic laminate surface. Our 2011 Great West Van Legend had an Avonite solid surface artificial stone. Both vans when traded away had unblemished countertops. The laminate surface was obviously lighter weight which helped in the old T1N sprinters. The Avonite was OK but I did not like its appearance compared to Silestone/ColorQuartz. There are some great granites, but since they are natural, you never know how well the highly variable grain and pattern will look on such a small counter. Besides that, the granite I liked was not the one my wife liked.

[Davydd]

Progress! The cabinet shop has been working in earnest this week on Alvar and it is starting to come together. I talked about that computer desk and shortening the width of the wardrobe to accommodate it earlier. This is pretty much the finished result.

This is the wardrobe cabinet with the door open. That safe is huge! It should hold any valuable documents and I think at least two laptop computers. The standard wardrobe cabinet Advanced RV had been using had it sitting on the floor with a door hatch to the right to get at some valves. We raised it so there would still be room for that utility access door that goes in the bottom toe space area. The bottom floor shelf can hold our shoes exchanged for slippers on entering the B. On the right is the hanging closet mainly for coats. Last year we managed not to carry any hanging clothes as we have gotten very casual. The other shelves are TBD but I did request that top shelf to be a minimum of 5" high. Did you know a can of beer will fit on a 5" high shelf? That's how I arrived at a minimum 5" high for any shelving.



Next is the wardrobe cabinet with the door closed. The drop down computer desk looks right with the driver's seat turned 180 degrees. That's one of the carpenters tapping to demonstrate where the computer would sit. There appears to be plenty of foot space. The double duty objective is by reducing the wardrobe cabinet width from 27" wide to 18" wide the driver's seat turned around won't feel so spatially restricted as it was with our previous Great West Van Legend. If we put a stow away table for eating shared by the two cab seats I will still be able to sit down and get up. In the GWVan I had to slide across from the passenger seat to sit down when the table was in place.

Note the big two-door refrigerator and freezer with microwave/convection oven above. The refrigerator is not light blue. That's is a protective film covering the stainless steel. The less used freezer is on the bottom placing the refrigerator at a comfortable look in height. It is a Nova Kool 6.8 cf compressor 12v/110v electric refrigerator.

Next to the computer desk is the unfinished wall. The plastic M-B covering for the seat belt pillar is temporarily off. There is a window cut behind the wardrobe cabinet for that continuous window you see on Sprinters which is popular. In this case that window is often totally concealed but by shortening the width of the wardrobe cabinet I will have a little bit of natural light at the desk. In that wardrobe spot they have put just a traditional desk in one and desk height dresser drawers. So basically it is a custom design your own spot.

[gerrym51]

Davydd-nice cabinetry

[Davydd]

They use quality hardware throughout in hinges, latches and drawer glides. I learned there are differences in those push to pull cabinet latches in quality and how well they work. I thought about it briefly and I expect a customer is going to request those marine popular flush lift out latch pulls sooner or later. The other thing I noticed was I believe Advanced RV is the only converter that uses those soft self-closing drawer glides. I don't recall seeing them on other Class Bs.

The cabinetry is all plywood with a laminate finish so they don't use hardwoods. Throughout is a lot of vacuum formed radius corners so that kind of eliminate hardwoods since they use a more modern design instead of wood panel for drawers and doors. However, they did make an all wood cabinet for at least one customer I've been told. I mentioned before, I don't think I have seen the same finish yet in the couple of dozen Advanced RVs I've seen one way or another. Many are a bit more ambitious or bold than our somewhat mundane and conservative finishes.

[mlts22]

I don't mean to digress, but who makes the good push to pull cabinet latches? I have seen cheap ones (where they push in and when out, they turn... but they don't deadlock in place), and I have seen good ones (as on the Airstream models where if the button is in, the latch is deadlocked where it cannot spring open due to road vibrations.) For me, this is an important thing. Some RV makers guard where their knobs came from like it is a map to the Holy Grail.

[Davydd]

The push to pull latches all pretty much work the same. You push the latch button and the button springs out and the latch recedes so you can grab the cylindrical button and pull the door open. You close the door and push the button back in to re-latch. When I checked the Roadtreks I was ready to tell Advanced RVs I didn't want them but then when I visited the ARV factory in September I discovered they were entirely different. What I noticed about the Roadtrek latches is they were smoothly round and difficult to grip and pull especially if your fingers were the least bit greasy. Other latches available were grippable with an indent on the cylinder or a concave parabolic shape to the cylinder.

Notice in this video how Mike Wendland and Campskunk were explaining how to adjust the latch strike and notice how Campskunk never pulled the door open by the latch but grabbed the door by its wood edges.

http://roadtreking.com/adjusting-cabine ... -roadtrek/

Later Wendland did a report on solving the latch problem again by adding magnetic latches. Again, he did not pull the door open by the push pull latch but by grabbing the edges. If you have greasy fingers it would not take to long to discolor the finish with finger marks.

http://roadtreking.com/magnetic-latches-rv-cabinets/

After two reports wouldn't you think better latches might be the answer?

Anyway, there is some good information in those videos on adjusting door hardware. I had installed magnetic latches on my Great West Van bathroom door when I modified it from a bifold to a pair of doors. The magnetic latches really do the job.

[mlts22]

If I may ask, what brand does ARV use? If I go the custom rig route, that's the way I'd like to go.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by mlts22

If I may ask, what brand does ARV use? If I go the custom rig route, that's the way I'd like to go.

I really don't know but in my photo it shows the beige housing on the backside you might be able to Google and find it. I was thinking about doing that myself as I still have a little over a month before I will see mine. I just blew up, cropped and combined a couple of photos for clues.



I'm going to guess it might be this Sea Dog Push Pull Door Latch. It has the concave cylinder I mentioned and the back latch is boxy like this with the two screw wings.

http://www.amazon.com/Sea-Dog-224300-1- ... B002FVKG2E

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by mlts22

I don't mean to digress, but who makes the good push to pull cabinet latches? I have seen cheap ones (where they push in and when out, they turn... but they don't deadlock in place), and I have seen good ones (as on the Airstream models where if the button is in, the latch is deadlocked where it cannot spring open due to road vibrations.) For me, this is an important thing. Some RV makers guard where their knobs came from like it is a map to the Holy Grail.

Not to hijack David's thread, but to clarify -- the Airstream Interstate B-vans don't have deadbolt latches. They have a fairly heavy spring mechanism that keeps the overhead cabinets closed under normal driving conditions. However if you hit a large bump or make a drastic maneuver objects in the overhead cabinet can push the door open. Once it is opened about 2-3 inches it will spring completely open since the same spring that keeps the door shut also keeps it open. I've had mine pop open several times so I replaced all my overhear latched with true deadbolt latches. Both the Airstream OEM latches and the deadbolt drop-in replacement are made by Sugatsune from Japan. The deadbolt latches I used are designated as the LAMP TLP. I've attached a copy of the spec sheet and a photo of the installation on my Interstate.

Hope this helps,
-- Mike

[Davydd]

I'm not sure I am right on my guess of latches for the ARV yet. It could be a simple latch and not the dead bolt. However, from the Roadtrek videos and the Airstream photo the ARV latch is different. In further checking places like Alibaba you soon find that China with unnamed companies flood the market with items like this. But going back to the main point, the pull knob is grippable. My Great West Van had handle pulls and roller spring catch latches. Pleasure-way was the same.

That hinge stay on the Airstream is different than any I've seen. My Great West Van had the shock absorber piston type stays which is fairly common. ARV uses the H'a'fele Duo hinge stay for the overhead cabinets. Roadtrek looks similar to ARV. Most all use the European style hinge now for the overheads. They aid greatly in door adjustment. My home kitchen is solid cherry wood and need adjustment all the time because humidity changes the wood dimensions.

[Tenbike2]

Davydd I think your cabinets are coming out great! I just have a question about recharging your computers and cell phones. You made the modified front cabinet full height. Previously it had a open shelf with USB power outlets to recharge electronics. I know there are outlets in back by the beds for USB charging cell phones but no place convenient for computers or iPads. Where we're you planning on doing this? I have also read it is better to do this while driving so you are not drawing on the batteries. With your large battery capacity is this an issue? Thanks Jim

[avanti]

With Davy's awesome battery pack, I doubt that charging a laptop will even make a measurable difference. It is true, however, that (at least for Macs), there seems to be no good DC charging option, so one is forced to run the inverter, with it's significant base load on the batteries. That is why it is good to use DC-powered USB plugs, rather than those AC combo-outlets.

BTW: In our new Legend, I had them install a 120VAC panel socket like this



on the bulkhead down near the passenger's seat. This is nice for allowing the passenger to use and charge a laptop while underway.

[Davydd]

Tenbike2,

The wardrobe top shelf can still be used to store and charge iPads or iPhones. It is just enclosed instead of open. I had to shake off my old Great West Van design and that happened when I started drawing. With our 800 ah battery bank and 2800 watt inverter/charger we will have 120V AC live outlets throughout the van all the time where they can be charged. Upfront we will have USB plugs and in the back where the extended van has that last bit of area without windows they build in shelves there with USB plugs. The computers use the AC plugs for charging and there will be one at that computer desk as well as other areas about the van. It is something I will review once again with ARV. The cabinetry work was completed yesterday and the van will be going back to the factory for final fitting out. I have a couple of weeks before they get to it.

[obgraham]

That's really nice to fit the shelves to what you have instead of the other way around!

[Davydd]

I joked about the beer but in a Class B where storage is precious you can't assume every shelf has to be generous like you might have in your home kitchen. The standard No. 10 food can is about 4.5". Even a Skippy peanut butter jar is about 4.75". Campbell soup cans are shorter. I figured the majority of canned food for two people not using oversized portions is going to fit on a 5" clear shelf. You don't need tall shelves for every shelf yet you probably would never design a home kitchen that way. The upper line of shelves are all going to be taller anyway and they go throughout the whole van including the cab area except at the sliding door. There is a lot of storage.

We also know from experience that no matter how well we plan ahead we will never know how we will use that storage until we get the B and move in. No matter what you have you just fill the void. In trading in our two previous vans we were amazed at the amount of stuff we eventually emptied out. I remember the many times we endured rain, and got wet from a lack of an umbrella only to find on emptying out we had a nice big golf umbrella concealed away the whole time.