Advanced RV

[markopolo]

In anticipation of some news soon of Advanced RV's first model I thought we could get a topic started.

2013 Florida SuperShow

September 20, 2012

Join us at the 2013 Florida SuperShow in Tampa, where we will be exhibiting our brand-new Ocean One motor home at booth 225, in Lakeside South next to the Suppliers Building “B.”

The first Ocean One model includes a full suite of possible options, including:

-Diesel hydronic heating and hot water (quiet, efficient, with a new filtered air flow system)
-Air conditioner that can be run without generator or shore power (keep cabin temperature stable while stopped for short times, such as to eat lunch)
-Elegant, beautiful wooden cabinets (no plastic trim or paper-covered plywood)
-Powered sofa (provides functionality and space in the cabin)
-Mobileye lane departure and approach warning safety system
-Centralized system control integration (fewer buttons and switches, less confusion)
-Premium audio system by JL Audio
-Hushmat lining/insulation (better temperature control and sound reduction)

Whether you prefer to stop often at campgrounds and plug in, or spend time in beautiful places without services, we are dedicated to providing you with all the options to create an advanced motor home experience.

We look forward to meeting you in Tampa!

January 15-20, 2013
Florida State Fairgrounds
4800 US Highway 301 North
Tampa, FL 33610

The first item I noticed is:

Air conditioner that can be run without generator or shore power (keep cabin temperature stable while stopped for short times

I wonder if this is the start of a new trend in Class B RV's.

I like the use Diesel hydronic heating and hot water. I've been reading up on it and it seems to be a good system.

[Davydd]

The diesel hydronic heating and hot water system has already shipped on many Great West Van Legends.

I'm curious about what they are coming up with on radiant floor heat. Could it be enough to keep a B comfortable in temperature ranges above freezing? I am well versed on electric radiant floor heat. I put 2,400 sf of it in my house 30 years ago and am a big advocate.

[booster]

From a look at their website, and seeing all their plans, it sounds like a nice RV, but just how much will it cost. $150K+?

[Davydd]

They start out with close to a $49,000 MSRP Sprinter cargo van.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by markopolo

In anticipation of some news soon of Advanced RV's first model I thought we could get a topic started.

The first item I noticed is:
[quote:33wqlit4]Air conditioner that can be run without generator or shore power (keep cabin temperature stable while stopped for short times

I wonder if this is the start of a new trend in Class B RV's.

I like the use Diesel hydronic heating and hot water. I've been reading up on it and it seems to be a good system.[/quote:33wqlit4]

re: "The first item I noticed is:"
Maybe I'm over simplifying but, I can run my dash air for short or longer periods, and keep my cabin temperature stable without the use of a generator or shore power. I guess when the coaches begin to stretch out to the lengths of + 22' B+ and C class coaches, the dash air needs help? Isn't the "innovation" of improving or adding an auxilliary air conditioner and (non-generator/shore power) power source just a different way of doing something we've all been able to do for decades?
As for the rest of it, it's all "possible options" like they haven't decided which ones to include and which ones to leave off. I'm thinking they've come up with some interesting "house warming gifts" but realize the cost to add it all will drive the cost/price of the vehicle up to a level that may only appeal to a small cross section of RVers. If you can afford to buy a class B coach at $120,000 + you can probably afford a much larger coach and the added costs they imply. That niche of buyers likely aren't going to shell out that kind of money and still be worried about pinching pennies on fuel economy, so may just upsize to a larger motorhome.

[markopolo]

Are they referring to the "cab" when they say "cabin" or are they referring to the "coach" or motor home section of the vehicle?
Mike Ellis looks to be the only person on staff with extensive knowledge of RV's so maybe they are not familiar with commonly used words for describing the various areas in RV's or maybe they are trying to re-define the image of their RV's using "cabin" as it is used to describe an area in boat or a plane.

[Mike]

That was sort of the point. It's hard to figure out what they're referring to, but in either case, I can still maintain a comfortable cabin/coach temperature in warm outside weather, using my dash air alone. If the outside temps are extreme in either direction, any vehicle would require climate control "help" to maintain a comfortable environment, and that problem hasn't been solved by anybody (yet), in a technologically feasible, energy efficient, cost effective way, that I'm aware of. Not Roadtrek, PW, GWV, or even Advanced-RV, in spite of their somewhat optimistic, and as yet unproven, name. Adding heated floors, as an example, could have been done by any converter, but it drives up the costs to build, and the corresponding retail price. Adding better insulation in the floor might be a cheaper, but slightly less effective, solution. Motion detection outside LED lights? Gimmicky. A 2 minute video on how they designed the running boards? C'mon, what's up with that?
It's a "pig/lipstick" situation is what I'm thinking for much of these newer innovations, and not just A-RV, but Roadtrek and the rest. They're approaching the price point where many will just say, can't afford it, or might as well move up to a larger overall RV, if I'm going spend that kind of dough and get the extra space. Their niche of affordability seems to be shrinking as they try to incorporate "big rig" stuff into the smaller packages. As usual, just my opinion.

[markopolo]

I've seen Airstream Sprinters listed at $140,000. A good portion of that high price is to do with the iconic brand name. That's like $90,000 added to the retail price of a Sprinter van.
It is really going to interesting to see Advanced RV pricing.

[Davydd]

Saying you can move up to a larger RV for the price is like saying you can buy a Ford F-150 instead of a Ferrari.

The Sprinter dash air-conditioner is more than adequate for driver and passenger while underway. Terminology aside, I thought it was clear they meant operating the ceiling air conditioner while stopped and back inside the van eating lunch.

Mike Ellis had a short stint at Great West Vans. He is a great ideas man with an entrepreneur mindset but he did not have a history of expertise on RVs. He does know Mercedes Benz. Mike Neundorfer has a great deal of expertise in custom designing industrial equipment with a very knowledgeable staff. He has also owned three Class Bs over time with a lot of travel under his belt. Design is coming from practical knowledge. As for the fiberglass skirt video, I see it as killing time by keeping development news freshened, a little bit of displaying their in-house design and 3D CAD expertise, engaging employees in the process and ownership, and maybe just a little bit of video trailer teasing not unlike what Roadtrek did with the E-Trek videos.

[markopolo]

Hindsight is 20/20

#1 - They're losing momentum. Most of what has occurred so far should have been in private not public in my opinion. Then, launch the website in Aug or Sept ( I think they launched in March) and build the momentum and excitement up until the the model debut. The worst complaint I've seen so far is that "There are no photos of their models on the website (and therefore) would you buy from them?". People don't realize the launch was ideas not an actual completed product.

#2 - The business name / domain name:
These names are not them:
advancedrv.com
advancedrv.net
advance-rv.ca
advancerv.com

They are: advanced-rv.com with a hyphen and it's very close to the names listed above. This adds a bit of unnecessary complexity for name / brand recognition.

#3 - Dealer network for repairs. Some people will require a dealer within at least a couple of hundred miles - someone to turn to / complain to when something breaks.

Theses are my opinions / observations. My intention is not to sound negative. We all know there are tremendous challenges when starting a new business.

Edit: I think the RS E-trek announcement was too early as well. But, all of these guys are very excited about what they're doing so I bet it is hard to not want to tell the world.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by markopolo

I've seen Airstream Sprinters listed at $140,000. A good portion of that high price is to do with the iconic brand name. That's like $90,000 added to the retail price of a Sprinter van.
It is really going to interesting to see Advanced RV pricing.

Interesting indeed. Airstream seems to have an inordinately high MSRP compared to all the other converters and I think you might be right about iconic brand positioning. Only it ain't an iconic, classic, timeless aluminum trailer! The Interstate B offers nothing over the other converters. Winnebago, on the other hand, is offering their ERAs at a seemingly substantial MSRP discount over all the other converters. We'll soon find out where Advanced RV falls in that spectrum but I suspect they should have the capability of under pricing the Canadian converters simply because of the difference in the dollar and Mercedes Benz import red tape Canada has to deal with to sell in the USA.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by markopolo

Hindsight is 20/20

#1 - They're losing momentum. Most of has occurred so far should have been in private not public in my opinion. Then, launch the website in Aug or Sept ( I think they launched in March) and build the momentum and excitement up until the the model debut. The worst complaint I've seen so far is that "There are no photos of their models on the website (and therefore) would you buy from them?". People don't realize the launch was ideas not an actual completed product.

#2 - The business name / domain name:
These names are not them:
advancedrv.com
advancedrv.net
advance-rv.ca
advancerv.com

They are: advanced-rv.com with a hyphen that adds a bit of unnecessary complexity for name / brand recognition.

#3 - Dealer network for repairs. Some people will require a dealer within at least a couple of hundred miles - someone to turn to / complain to when something breaks.

Theses are my opinions / observations. My intention is not to sound negative. We all know there are tremendous challenges when start a new business.

Starting up might be proving tougher than imagined. I think they originally intended to have the first RV out by June or July. That obviously did not happen. Seeing no actual plan layout or more specifics in the interim has been more disappointing. Yes, the name was confusing since there already is an AdvancedRV.com that is a RV parts, service and rental company in California. All B converters suffer from a dearth of dealers and service. That seemingly hasn't hurt Sportsmobile which has no dealer network. I don't look at Bs as commodity RVs where you are going to buy because they are down the street like RV trailers. If you want a B you are going to shop and get what you want even though variety is not all that great in my opinion.

[wabbit]

Originally Posted by markopolo

#1 - They're losing momentum. Most of what has occurred so far should have been in private not public in my opinion. Then, launch the website in Aug or Sept ( I think they launched in March) and build the momentum and excitement up until the the model debut. The worst complaint I've seen so far is that "There are no photos of their models on the website (and therefore) would you buy from them?". People don't realize the launch was ideas not an actual completed product.

Edit: I think the RS E-trek announcement was too early as well. But, all of these guys are very excited about what they're doing so I bet it is hard to not want to tell the world.

Which RV show is considered to be the primary event for class Bs? Most industries have one trade show where everyone introduces their new models. For high tech backpacking gear it is in March. Everyone teases about new models before the show, but doesn't give the full details until the event.

I wonder if the Florida RV show is the "big event" for class Bs. That would explain the vague hype now.

[Mike]

I wonder if we'll ever see anything besides a prototype for an RV show roll off an Advanced RV factory floor? I'm not convinced they're much more than hype, and some videos on a website at this point.

[Davydd]

I saw the first van they were converting and it is my understanding this month it was supposed to be done and Mike and Marcia Neundorfer were taking it on the road for an initial run. So I don't see it exactly as hype. I just see it as the best hoped for plans just aren't coming together as fast as assumed.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by Davydd

I saw the first van they were converting and it is my understanding this month it was supposed to be done and Mike and Marcia Neundorfer were taking it on the road for an initial run. So I don't see it exactly as hype. I just see it as the best hoped for plans just aren't coming together as fast as assumed.

I have a theory about that, which I just posted in the E-Trek thread (probably belonged here). Nutshell version, that that was the original plan all along. That they would build a prototype which was Neundorfer approved, fish for solid orders at their price point at the unveiling at the Supershow in Tampa, and if the orders weren't there, fold up shop, and the Neundorfers would keep the prototype which they've effectively paid for anyway.
If they get enough interest and enough solid orders, then they may be off to the races, after all.
Stay tuned, I guess???

[Davydd]

Ah well, a lot of speculation of something none of us know anything about.

[Mike]

I thought that was how we do things here?

[markopolo]

Look at New West RV - been in business for a while, look to be a success, mostly Chevy 2500 pop-top conversions, high quality finish inside, high quality components. They have a loyal customer base. They sell direct to the customer and the few units I've seen for re-sale command high prices. The team really knows the product.

That's probably what Advanced RV will do. Focus on quality.

The top 4 B manufacturers by unit sales this year up to August are Roadtrek with a 35.8% market share, Pleasure-Way with a 19.9% share, Thor (Airstream) is next at 19.3% market share, and Winnebago at 16%.

Looks like 8% for everyone else and they seem to be doing OK.

The US companies "suddenly" have 35% of the market up from 0% not long ago............

[markopolo]

Originally Posted by wabbit

Which RV show is considered to be the primary event for class Bs? Most industries have one trade show where everyone introduces their new models. For high tech backpacking gear it is in March. Everyone teases about new models before the show, but doesn't give the full details until the event.

I wonder if the Florida RV show is the "big event" for class Bs. That would explain the vague hype now.

The PRVCA show in Hershey in Sept is probably the largest overall.

Florida........... in January Great time to go for us Northerners