Advanced RV

[Davydd]

Our sleeping bags are rated down to 25F. I haven't had a problem getting comfortable. It seems the colder it is the easier it is to sleep for us. If it gets much colder sweat pants and hoodie sweat shirts help. On our current trip we have been down to 31F overnight. 40 years of tent camping with no electricity I guess conditions you.

[Davydd]

There really isn't anything tech savvy to worry about using a USB charge station. If it's there you just plug in. If you have a USB charger it is just a device you then have to plug into a regular electrical outlet and then plug your USB cord into it. Having it built in is just a major convenience especially if it works with 12V as well and has enough amperage for an iPad.

Bluetooth isn't much harder. It is just a selection on your iPhone or iPad to turn on or off and an app to control your external device. The most common bluetooth device is a separate keyboard used with smartphones and tablets. That's pretty fundamental.

Right now we are traveling with two iPhones, two iPads, a MacBook Air laptop and a MacBook Pro laptop. That's a lot of things to plug in.

[stanw909]

A switch works for everyone. No looking for glasses at 4 am or turning on lights and waking your partner. K.I.S.S. is best.

[miken]

Thanks for the comments on "morning heat". Simple and easy is always the best. We try to provide choices when possible. Some may also want more capability than just on and off like changeing the temp setting. I imagine that most thermostats supplied are like our Silverleaf with the capability to set separate high and low temperatures for daytime, nightime, and away. However using these settings for "morning heat" assumes we know what time we are getting up.

[markopolo]

Advanced RV March newsletter is available: http://www.advanced-rv.com/2013/03/

The new model names have been chosen and winners of the model naming contest have been posted.

Class B Forum member Rok's "Are Class B'ers Different Than Other RV Owners?" topic was noted See Rok's post here http://classbforum.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2514

[pattonsr]

Miken,

How is the improved web site coming along? The model information has been deleted for some time and I would assume you are going to fill it in again.

Barry

[miken]

Barry

We have a great team working on our new web site. It will launch by the end of this week. It will have model information and more. We know and appologize that the current site lacks information. We have not spent the time we should have updating our current site while we are working on the new site. I hope that we get early visitors to the new site who will give us feedback and suggestions. People are recognizing that we are taking a different approach to Class B motor homes, and we hope our new site will reflect our quality, flexibility, and customer focus.

[Davydd]

Miken,

Hope to see you at B10 in the UP. I looked at your website today in some detail. I think if you are going without a dealer network so everyone can actually see your B you ought to post a lot of detailed photos. The Mike Wendland video probably provided more info than your whole website. If we travel to Washington DC again this summer we'll make a point to stop by again.

We are pretty happy yet with what we currently have in our Great West Legend but have been kicking around the concept of twin beds but no one has what we really want. I would like beds that could convert to loungers for reading and TV watching. I'm thinking something conceptually like an adjustable base similar to hospital beds or this Sleep Number bed.

http://www.sleepnumber.com/eng/products ... lexfitplus

The most practical and best fixed bed right now to me is the Winnebago ERA 70A plan for accessing storage.

[miken]

Davydd

Marcia and I are looking forward to the B10 rally. It will be good to meet you and other fellow travelers. It looks like a full and fun agenda. We will have two Advanced RV's attending. There will also be customers for whom we recently installed sliding screen doors, wine racks and a new custom cabinet. We look forward to relaxing, meeting fellow class B travelers and listening to thier ideas.

Thanks for the links to sleepnumber and bed ideas. We are flexible in our configuration of fixed twin beds. One of our design objectives is to keep the area under the beds as clear as possible for storage.. We want this storage area accessible both from the top and from the rear doors. Another objective of our designs is to use a common support for our twins, queen/kings and our three piece, one switch operated sofa bed. By keeping a common side support for all of our beds, we can easily change the bed configuration for customers whose needs change or who change thier mind about the chosen configuration after taking delivery. this option will also increase resale value because a new customer can have the bed of their choice installed.

We do have concepts for a "flexfit" type bed and we have the motion technology in-house to move it forward. However, it took us more than six months to design, perfect, and test our sofa bed so we don't expect to have an adjustable single bed available for many months.

We would like to have feedback on what you and others think is an acceptable aisle width for single beds. One of our single bed arrangements includes comfortable back cushions so the beds act as a "booth" with a dining table in the center for 4 people. Our current configuration has 27" wide beds that create a 15" wide aisle. Are we being too generous with the aisle width. We see some where the aisle is only 11". Is this enough width for an aisle.

Thanks for sharing valuable information and suggestions.

[Davydd]

Mike,

We're looking forward to seeing you.

I mentioned the ERA 70A plan fixed bed because they do a few unique things. They've abandoned the pretense of using the beds with a table by hiking it higher a few inches to give you an extraordinary amount of storage underneath. Also the aisle does not go the full length back like most typical twin beds. That leaves a large lift up full width access from inside to the underneath storage. Also where the aisle is there is access to side storage on the side. The aisle is also wedged shape so that it gives you a 29" width where your shoulders are plus filled in and then flares out to match the aisle. So the aisle is designed mainly so you can get into bed easily. They also have a fill in wedge cushion that stores separately from the bed (not a bolster) but I've met three ERA owners and none bother to even carry it and use it. There may be one ERA 70A owner at the rally.

If we had fixed beds I don't think we would want or desire the need to have a table back there with twin beds. As long as the two cab seats turn around decently to a table that would be enough. If the twin beds had independent lounger setups like I mentioned to a point you could sit in them like a Lazyboy, a flip down (or pull up and rotate over) lap table would be a neat feature. After being on the road so much recently the desire for a very comfortable lounger became important. That drove me to buying zero gravity loungers for outside use. The front captain chairs even with foot stools don't quite do it. The electric sofas haven't quite done it.

Another thing that would be nice if fixed beds were the option would be a definite way to curtain or close off the bed area from the rest of the B. The Pleasure-way Plateau RB probably does it better than most.

Our last two trips have been 10 weeks in Alaska and 8 weeks in Texas. The longer the trip the more desire for comfort. Short trippers might not feel this kind of need.

[pattonsr]

At this time, Advanced RV is the only company that has a Class A electrical design in a Class B. This involves an Outback 2800 watt pure sine inverter with an integrated 125 amp charger. The Outback has great surge ability so it doesn't mind if 3400 watts are needed for a short while. This fits a generator free design (with large batteries) that relies on alternator charging while driving or some limited idling at 1200 rpm to replace battery amps. A full charge would happen when hooked up to shore power

I for one would like more flexibility in where I go. Magnum Energy has just announced the MSH3012M, a 3000 watt hybrid inverter/charger that brings back the old Trace boost logic (Trace engineers founded Magnum Energy).

If you would like to read a very clear explanation of how this works (only 3 pages), go to MagnumEnergy.com, products, pure sine, select MSH-M series and click on more information. Pages 32-34 in the Owner's manual has the complete lowdown.

In 2014 the new Sprinters will be lower by approximately 1.25 inches. The 3500 models will have air suspension in the rear but whether this is an option or standard is not mentioned in the preliminary guides. So what this might mean is that the Onan 3600 propane generator may not fit due to height problems. But the Onan 2500 will probably fit. Now the fun comes with a boost inverter/charger.

One is running air and doing some charging while on the 2500 watt generator. The convection microwave is started for popcorn and the demand is now over 2500 watts. The Magnum will stop charging and switch over to providing up to 3000 additional watts. When the popcorn is done, then the boost will cease and the Magnum goes back to providing loads and using the remaining energy to charge the batteries.

How about parking in a friend's driveway and be plugged into their house power. Any short term loads over 20 amps will be handled and not trip the house breakers so you will be invited back.

The retail price for the MSH3000M is $300 more than the MS2812. These are expensive inverter/chargers but I wouldn't be surprised if the next Great West Van model uses this design and starts getting away from cheap converter/chargers and a standalone inverter.







.

[Davydd]

Pattonsr,

My head swims when you talk electrical.

Looks like I've got some reading to do to understand all this. I do know one thing. I have 46,000 miles on my 2 house battery 2011 Great West Van Legend with quite a few lengthy trips and dry camping. Yet I have but 10.5 hours on our generator and I would bet the majority of those hours were in dry camping situations where we desired to brew a full pot of coffee to drink and fill our travel mugs. I could easily get by without a generator. I have a tendency to seek proper weather and probably could get by without an air-conditioner. So far once about 2 or 3 hours in south Texas in over 10 weeks traveling this spring. We rely more on the side screen door and back screen wall to keep our B cool. We have started using our microwave/convection oven as a convection oven but that is a luxury. We do rely heavily on propane. We use it to heat the B and water, we use it to boil water and pan cook and we run our refrigerator the majority of the time on it. Despite that use we went through only one tank in 8 weeks this spring that cost $21 to refill. The question is can batteries make up the difference of our propane use. Great West and Advanced have the diesel hydronic to address part of the propane use. Since we prefer camping in dense woods (northern Midwest and mountains) or seek out a treed campsite, how practical is solar charging in these scenarios?

[markopolo]

Under-voltage top up with an inverter has been around for a long time (my '04 Roadtrek had it) but this new stuff you found is interesting. I had not heard of "under amperage" top up. That is very handy and useful in RVing situations that you describe. The trend right now seems to be these powerful full featured inverter chargers, some even with solar input. The equipment may be costly up-front but lower installation costs might offset that. You might be able to install only one piece of equipment - replacing three (1) converter, (2) inverter, (3) solar controller.

Some great comments on two Advanced RV Class B's seen by B10 rally attendees:

http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fu...d/26962773.cfm

People who see the units are impressed

Edit: just saw Davydd's post - you can't help but notice how much effort (and equipment) it takes to replace propane.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by markopolo

Under-voltage top up with an inverter has been around for a long time (my '04 Roadtrek had it) but this new stuff you found is interesting. I had not heard of "under amperage" top up. That is very handy and useful in RVing situations that you describe. The trend right now seems to be these powerful full featured inverter chargers, some even with solar input. The equipment may be costly up-front but lower installation costs might offset that. You might be able to install only one piece of equipment - replacing three (1) converter, (2) inverter, (3) solar controller.

Some great comments on two Advanced RV Class B's seen by B10 rally attendees:

http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fu...d/26962773.cfm

People who see the units are impressed

Edit: just saw Davydd's post - you can't help but notice how much effort (and equipment) it takes to replace propane.

Further to Davydd's post, we've never had any power shortage problems, and we spend the majority of our travels dry camping. 2 AGM 12V batteries as the off grid storage system, and a 2.8KW generator and the engine alternator to replenish it. Like him, we generally avoid climatic conditions that require extra shore power options be available. We have been able to get by and travel comfortably, without solar or other auxilliary replenishment options. Our propane usage is probably comparable to his.
Then there are folks like campskunk, who add a few power management options, and also do quite well off the grid, it appears.
Begs the question, how much off grid capacity is enough? Depends on how you like to camp, and what level of electrical support is necessary to run it, I guess.

Some folks sure liked the A-RV screen doors and cabinetry.
Did we ever get pricing on one of their stock models? Or Candy or Hans? I think I looked around the website a while back and couldn't find any definitive pricing. I figured there would be some base model pricing at least, before adding/subtracting optional equipment and features. Since they aren't currently using a dealer network, as far as I understood from other threads and comments, I thought they might be a little more up front with pricing. I guess if I have to ask, I can't afford one.

[Davydd]

The Advanced RV they had at the Tampa show was also at the B10 Rally. It was a fully loaded redundant systems model with the four batteries plus generator, propane, etc. That's why it cost so much. In my earlier post mentioning my use, the goal would be to eliminate the propane and generator. I think the Roadtrek E-trek for instance way over emphasizes the need to run an air-conditioner with 8 batteries. Quite frankly if the weather got so onerous to need to run an air-conditioner I would simply seek out a campsite with shore power. I've done quite well camping in spring and fall or in places that do not need air-conditioning.

[markopolo]

Originally Posted by Mike

Did we ever get pricing on one of their stock models? ..............

Advanced RV prices start at $128,500.00 per Mike N. a few months ago. I saw a list of prices for some pre-built units not long ago. One might have been close to the base price unit, another was around $150,000 if I recall correctly. I saw mention of them selling two in the last couple of weeks so those may be gone. It's going vary from unit to unit much more than other brands which don't have as many customization options.

[pattonsr]

Davydd,

Living in Minnesota and only going to southern states when it is cool or only if you have hookups is not a viable option for people like me who live in Texas and have relatives all over the southern states.

That is why Advanced RV offers generator free models and models with a generator. The need for a generator to run A/C for short periods is not a problem for them since they install the Dometic SmartStart module on their Dometic Penguins which tames the start-up current rush. The inverter handles the A/C just fine for short periods if shore power is not available. If A/C is needed for longer periods, then the Onan generator can be specified.

One thing to find out about the new Boosting Magnum inverter is how it works with a Honda/Yamaha 2000. When the head of Dometic Marine did his testing with the SmartStart, he used a Honda 2000 to start and run a 16,000 btu air conditioner. I would like to test a Yamaha 2000 converted to propane.

I would expect this might be a nice way to reduce propane usage for occasional A/C usage. When the A/C compressor is running excess watts are provided by the boost inverter. When it cycles off house loads are covered by the Yamaha 2000.

The Yamaha 2000 uses much less propane than either Onan models and might be a nice addition for southern customers. Then the built-in propane tank will be used for an optional propane cooktop, exterior Weber bbq and the Yamaha 2000.

One side note. I believe Advanced RV is now using a Progressive EMS for the shore power. The Yamaha 2000 like all small inverter generators have floated Neutrals. This will cause the EMS to display E2 error (open ground). The easy workaround is to use a dummy plug with a jumper wire connecting the Neutral and Ground and plug it into one of the 20 amp receptacles on the generator. Or just use the bypass switch on the EMS remote. The dummy plug will work even if the generator is used in parallel with another matching generator. This has been a topic discussed for years on the RV forums but I thought I would mention it.

Barry

[Mike]

Originally Posted by markopolo

Advanced RV prices start at $128,500.00 per Mike N. a few months ago. I saw a list of prices for some pre-built units not long ago. One might have been close to the base price unit, another was around $150,000 if I recall correctly. I saw mention of them selling two in the last couple of weeks so those may be gone. It's going vary from unit to unit much more than other brands which don't have as many customization options.

Wow. Right up there with the Roadtrek E-Trek?
I keep thinking they're in danger of pricing themselves out of the mainstream market once they get over $85,000, but that may not be a concern for those whose base models start at $128,500.
I wonder if there's room for a class B equivalent "Bentley" or "Rolls Royce" niche, in the mainstream market? Some of the higher priced manufacturers seem to be catering to a very exclusive group of buyers. Not sure if that's sustainable, but time will tell, I guess.

[mlts22]

It seems like almost all the "B" makers want a piece of the high end market, and are completely ignoring the sub-85k market. However, from what I see with Winnebago ERAs, there is a pretty big demand for lower "tier" rigs. WGO is at least five months backlogged with orders.

The "B" market is only going to grow. Gas isn't getting any cheaper, nor is space for storing larger rigs getting easier to find. I can see several market segments for "B"s. The first would be what Advanced RV, Airstream, and others are going for. Then a market segment that Winnebago is aiming for with the Travato (where Chevy vans used to be), then there will be a 4x4 market, likely owned by Sportsmobile.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by mlts22

It seems like almost all the "B" makers want a piece of the high end market, and are completely ignoring the sub-85k market. However, from what I see with Winnebago ERAs, there is a pretty big demand for lower "tier" rigs. WGO is at least five months backlogged with orders.

The "B" market is only going to grow. Gas isn't getting any cheaper, nor is space for storing larger rigs getting easier to find. I can see several market segments for "B"s. The first would be what Advanced RV, Airstream, and others are going for. Then a market segment that Winnebago is aiming for with the Travato (where Chevy vans used to be), then there will be a 4x4 market, likely owned by Sportsmobile.

I think it comes down to, can you sell what you make, at a pace that allows you to continue to follow your chosen business model? If you can't support your own manufacturing infrastructure in a profitable manner, the outcome will be inevitable. I guess ideally, if you're going to try to sell a very top end model to what I still think is an atypical class B customer base, it might be advisable in a business sense to also offer something in a more widely affordable model, too. It might allow the overall operation to remain viable, while you wait for the Bentley and Rolls Royce orders.
Just my opinion.