A little deflated after the Aktiv test drive...

[indoorsy]

Originally Posted by Wingeezer

As for length, we have yet to buy, but I seem to be settling on the philosophy that "Long enough to have the features and storage capacity that we really need, but in the interest of optimum handling and parking, no longer. "

For us, I think that puts us in the 21-23 ft range.

Brian.

I'm of the same mind but feel I might be trying to put 50 pounds of sand in a 5 pound bag. Something's gotta give. At least I'm not asking for lots of storage!

[indoorsy]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

Check here, MB Curb to Curb is 44.6', so MB is edge better, perhaps not noticeable but on highway the Promaster longer wheel base could be noticeably better. https://www.mbvans.com/sprinter/comm...vans/cargo-van

Originally Posted by jon

After a quick web search I came up with:

Promaster 159 Turning radius - Curb to Curb (ft) 46.83.6
Sprinter 144 Turning radius (ft) Wall To Wall 47.6

I think they have basically the same turning radius.

Of course, the Promaster 159" WB would be essentially the same but have an extra foot hanging on the back.

The MB 170 has turning radius of 54.6'

It is what it is... basically seems less easy pulling into a parking spot but more stable on the highway and contains the layout that works, I'd probably opt for the latter.

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by jon

After a quick web search I came up with:

Promaster 159 Turning radius - Curb to Curb (ft) 46.83.6
Sprinter 144 Turning radius (ft) Wall To Wall 47.6

I think they have basically the same turning radius.

Of course, the Promaster 159" WB would be essentially the same but have an extra foot hanging on the back.

Actually, the extra length is in the wheelbase

159-144=15"

[jon]

Originally Posted by BBQ

Actually, the extra length is in the wheelbase

159-144=15"

I was talking about the Promaster EB and LB The LB is I think 14 inches longer with the same 159in WB.

The Promaster EB 159in WB compares to the Sprinter RB 144in WB. They're both just under 20ft

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by indoorsy

WOW! that's pretty amazing. The layout is nearly identical to the Airstream option and I love that. Now, I wonder why the miles are so low? under 5k in a 2014. What? seems odd. Wish it weren't 3000 miles away. I am going to add this to my watch out list for something a little closer. I don't love flying (hence wanting the van)... If I can drive to see something all the better. If I have to fly, would appreciate not cross country. I appreciate you calling this to my attention. It has the same 170" wheel base as the Airstream. I'm not sure if that's good or bad? It is probably both depending on your needs.

It does look in great shape, but I too questioned the mileage. Every once in awhile a rig comes up like this because the original buyers stuffed it into a garage and a health issue showed up... and they hoped that it would go away and they could use the new vehicle next year... but no.

It is a private seller. I suspect that the batteries are toast unless the small solar panel has kept them healthy. That is a nice rig, but how to check it out.

Here is another option for you. These are really luxurious high quality rigs, but not outrageously priced. My dealer in MN has one on the lot (not the floor plan that you would want) for under $90K and likely still room for negotiation. They build both on the Sprinter and the longest Promaster (just under 21 feet). The floor plans are at the bottom of this page.

https://midwestautomotivedesigns.com...-rv#floorplans

They have some with 3 seats up front or 3 extra seat belts on the rear sofa... front or rear baths. I've been in a couple of their Sprinter models and they are very nice... feel almost too ritzy for such as me. But they are not building on a smaller Promaster. If you are interested, I can hook you up with my dealer in MN for questions.

[mutcth]

Another choice: according to the Travato FB group, they are adding rear seatbelts to the Travato 59k floorplan for 2019. It's a very open coach, has a compressor frig, and very roomy sleeping for 2-3 if you set up the bed spanning the entire coach.

I think the near-perfect floorplan for you is the new Winnebago ERA 70B - 3 seats up front, big compressor frig, mostly open floorplan. But that's built on the long Sprinter, and Winnebago skimps on some of the safety stuff (blind spot monitoring, lane detection) that most other Class B builders opt for on their vans.

Tom

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by indoorsy

WOW! that's pretty amazing. The layout is nearly identical to the Airstream option and I love that. Now, I wonder why the miles are so low? under 5k in a 2014. What? seems odd. Wish it weren't 3000 miles away. I am going to add this to my watch out list for something a little closer. I don't love flying (hence wanting the van)... If I can drive to see something all the better. If I have to fly, would appreciate not cross country. I appreciate you calling this to my attention. It has the same 170" wheel base as the Airstream. I'm not sure if that's good or bad? It is probably both depending on your needs.

What is 3,000 miles?

If this is the right one, and you are ready, then go fly out there and pick it up.
Make a vacation out of the return journey.

People do this all the time.

Have fun.

[indoorsy]

Originally Posted by BBQ

What is 3,000 miles?

If this is the right one, and you are ready, then go fly out there and pick it up.
Make a vacation out of the return journey.

People do this all the time.

Have fun.

It is pretty perfect. I just wonder about the low mileage. I will call to inquire about whether it is operating... I am not sure how this works though. Don't I fly out there to check it out and if it's a go, come back and work out registration and insurance and then fly back to drive it back? That is three cross country flights, so more like 9000 miles for someone who doesn't like flying. I really wish it was closer. I think before going too far down this road I should test drive a 170" wheelbase sprinter. This one by Leisure Travel is REALLY REALLY nice.

I found this:
https://roamingtimes.com/2015/12/02/...ury-motorhome/

[indoorsy]

Originally Posted by mutcth

Another choice: according to the Travato FB group, they are adding rear seatbelts to the Travato 59k floorplan for 2019. It's a very open coach, has a compressor frig, and very roomy sleeping for 2-3 if you set up the bed spanning the entire coach.

I think the near-perfect floorplan for you is the new Winnebago ERA 70B - 3 seats up front, big compressor frig, mostly open floorplan. But that's built on the long Sprinter, and Winnebago skimps on some of the safety stuff (blind spot monitoring, lane detection) that most other Class B builders opt for on their vans.

Tom

hi Tom, That is really interesting about the 59K. I looked at it in person last week (didn't test drive) and really liked it - wished it had more seat belts. I think at this point, I decided to hold off on the Hymer until I can test drive one with occupants in the back. Too big a purchase and the test drive of the 1.0 was a bit disappointing (for many reasons only some of which were to do with the vehicle).

I saw the Winne ERA 70A. Thought the interior was a bit too slick for me. I just looked at their website and you're right.. the 70B is a good layout (with exception of the tall cabinet right behind the driver's seat). I was ready to make a decision such that I could have something for this summer but the B Class market seems to be adapting rather quickly and it is probably worth waiting to test drive some of these things and see them in person.

[indoorsy]

Originally Posted by mumkin

It does look in great shape, but I too questioned the mileage. Every once in awhile a rig comes up like this because the original buyers stuffed it into a garage and a health issue showed up... and they hoped that it would go away and they could use the new vehicle next year... but no.

It is a private seller. I suspect that the batteries are toast unless the small solar panel has kept them healthy. That is a nice rig, but how to check it out.

Here is another option for you. These are really luxurious high quality rigs, but not outrageously priced. My dealer in MN has one on the lot (not the floor plan that you would want) for under $90K and likely still room for negotiation. They build both on the Sprinter and the longest Promaster (just under 21 feet). The floor plans are at the bottom of this page.

https://midwestautomotivedesigns.com...-rv#floorplans

They have some with 3 seats up front or 3 extra seat belts on the rear sofa... front or rear baths. I've been in a couple of their Sprinter models and they are very nice... feel almost too ritzy for such as me. But they are not building on a smaller Promaster. If you are interested, I can hook you up with my dealer in MN for questions.

Mumkin, is your dealer Lakes Region? I went on their website and found only a new MWA... They look very nicely made. I have to agree with a bit too ritzy on the interior of the Sprinter's. Feels more boardroom than campground. The seats look amazing.

[35603]

Originally Posted by indoorsy

I feel quite fortunate to have all your help. Taking it all very seriously and trying not to give up on the idea all together on the idea of buying a Class B.

I guess if I order my priorities - they are:

(1) At least three seatbelts
(2) Prefer no carsick passengers (so seats closer to front are better or at least a seat, such as the Aktiv 2.0 with two belts but really for one person).
(3) Prefer comfy/roomy sleeping for at least two (for the amount of time I think my daughter and a friend would join us, I'm willing to let go of having 3/4 comfy sleeping positions. We can bring a tent and air mattress to set up outside the van (probably won't go through the trouble of pulling a small tear drop, there's a limit to what I want to maintain).
(4) Prefer gas over diesel for the aforementioned reasons you've all stated, although I like the idea of the better mileage and better hauling ability of diesel.
(5) Prefer a cassette toilet but I'll deal with what I get - not making this a deal breaker situation.
(6) Prefer a compressor fridge - does not need to be big
(7) Prefer a layout with limited tall cabinets and especially not behind the driver's seat - makes me feel claustrophobic - would prefer the tall cabinets on one side not both - don't need a pantry or wardrobe cabinet, don't need an eye level fridge or mw especially when that means more tall cabinets. Would prefer less storage and more windows.
( NEED screen door / would love on both the sliding door and the back. This means A LOT to me.
(9) Used or New is fine but would prefer something with a reasonable reputation for quality. Would prioritize quality over price but there's a limit to what i want to spend.

I've been looking at used models on RVTrader as I learn from all of you about what you don't like, what you've learned you wouldn't opt for again. So as I learn, what I look for has changed.

I reached out to the owner of this:
https://www.rvtrader.com/listing/201...7#emailSection

It has four seats upfront which I like. It has the living room set up at the back, which I like, particularly since it wouldn't be needed for driving. It has tall cabinets on just one side and not directly behind the driver's seat (big preference for me and what eliminates most of the Roadtrek's for me). It has diesel, not my preference but as I am finding you can't find a unicorn.

I'd have to go to Florida to look at it. Not really a problem, I like Florida.
Thoughts?

Have you considered the Winnebago Revel, it meets many of your above listed priorities.

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by indoorsy

Mumkin, is your dealer Lakes Region? I went on their website and found only a new MWA... They look very nicely made. I have to agree with a bit too ritzy on the interior of the Sprinter's. Feels more boardroom than campground. The seats look amazing.

Yes... Lake Region is a dealer with a great reputation. I purchased all three of my rigs from them. Their Midwest on the Promaster isn't the floor plan that you would want, which is why I put the link to the company site so that you could see all 4 floor plan options. They started out doing business vans and in the last few years have moved over to RVs. In the last year, they expanded to Promaster along with their Sprinters. If they were offering a build on the short Promaster, I would consider them... but awfully posh for someone with a dirty little dog. LOL

Lake Region also have 3 used Leisure Travel units on their website (which is often inaccurate because it is maintained outside their offices), but they are not the floor plan that you would want. They are on the last page of their website inventory. They have the slide and I'm not sure if the sofa has seatbelts or not.

[booster]

If you have been rethinking the no diesel thing, and can stand a touch more length (22 1/2 feet), you might consider a Roadtrek Adventurous on the regular length dually Sprinter.

Four seats up front, with the second row interchangeable with storage cabinets. Front seats make up into two beds, plus big bed, lengthwise sleeping, in back.

They have been making them for years, and I think the duallies start in 2008, before that single rear wheels. Quite a few around used, it appears, also. If you get a couple of years used, you should also be able to find one with the plain old AGM battery setup, which is tried and true.

http://www.roadtrek.com/wp-content/u...chure-2016.pdf

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2016-Roadtr...pZ8kM8&vxp=mtr

[indoorsy]

Originally Posted by booster

If you have been rethinking the no diesel thing, and can stand a touch more length (22 1/2 feet), you might consider a Roadtrek Adventurous on the regular length dually Sprinter.

Four seats up front, with the second row interchangeable with storage cabinets. Front seats make up into two beds, plus big bed, lengthwise sleeping, in back.

They have been making them for years, and I think the duallies start in 2008, before that single rear wheels. Quite a few around used, it appears, also. If you get a couple of years used, you should also be able to find one with the plain old AGM battery setup, which is tried and true.

http://www.roadtrek.com/wp-content/u...chure-2016.pdf

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2016-Roadtr...pZ8kM8&vxp=mtr

funny you should mention that booster. I have been rethinking the diesel thing. Mainly after my test drive of the Aktiv 1.0. I was surprised to feel so nervous on the highway. I was getting pushed around. It was a windy day and there were a lot of 18 wheelers blowing by me. I can definitely see the point made about dually's being a PITA but if they get me out on the road because they help me feel safe, that is a net positive.

And interesting you should bring up the RS Adventurous as I have been looking a the identical layout in the Airstream Interstate Lounge. I can see they have the same (very long) wheelbase (the RS is one foot shorter than the AI). I haven't taken a test drive yet so I don't know how that will feel although from my reading, I am led to believe the extra length on a longer wheelbase isn't as bad as say extra width, or a shorter wheelbase (with regard to cross winds - parking and backing up is another story).

I tend to like the interior design of the Airstream better than the Roadtrek and am also to understand that Airstream is ordering their chassis with every available safety option which seems a nod in their favor. I have my eye on a used 2016 with low miles for $100K, it has the Air Ride Suspension. I have received a quote for a new 2017 Tommy Bahama without Air Ride for $129K, or a new 2017 Tommy Bahama with Air Ride for approx. $135K. The 2016 has the interior colors I like best. They all have the screen doors that are a must. None seem like they have much in the way of solar panels (possibly can add?). You have to go to a 2018 model to get 300 w of solar and a tankless hot water heater. But they have the compressor fridge which is nice.

I know there are QC concerns with Airstream but honestly there seem to be concerns with so many of the ones I've been drawn to (for layout purposes as well as aesthetics / other than the Leisure Travel Vans, but not really wanting to go to a B+ with the extra width, nor can I go with the cheaper Wonder as it only has two seat belts so up in a pretty high price range... it's a non-starter anyway. I want a B).

This has all been such an education. I have just posted over on the AirForums to ask some advice there too (I am reverie room over there... my old screen name when I was looking at TT's).

[jrobe]

I don't think I would spend $6k or more for an air suspension system to try to improve the ride quality and handling. You can upgrade the lousy stock suspensions of these vans for quite a bit cheaper than that. In fact, suspension upgrades are almost mandatory with these commercial vans.

For a few hundred dollars and about an hour of time, you can change out the rear shocks for custom tuned Fox shocks and add some Sumo Springs. I couldn't believe how cheap the stock Sprinter rear shocks were when I changed mine out. If that doesn't do the job, it doesn't cost a lot more for things like rear leaf spring assists, better front struts and maybe even an upgraded sway bar.

You definitely don't need the hassle of dually's to make most of these vans ride nice.

[Manx]

If Airstream or Roadtrek Adventurous are in the running, you might want to consider Coachmen Galleria, especially with their lithium package.

[mumkin]

I don't think she is enough of a fan for lithiums to pay the extra $20K (for something she doesn't need). LOL

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by indoorsy

funny you should mention that booster. I have been rethinking the diesel thing. Mainly after my test drive of the Aktiv 1.0. I was surprised to feel so nervous on the highway. I was getting pushed around. It was a windy day and there were a lot of 18 wheelers blowing by me. I can definitely see the point made about dually's being a PITA but if they get me out on the road because they help me feel safe, that is a net positive.

And interesting you should bring up the RS Adventurous as I have been looking a the identical layout in the Airstream Interstate Lounge. I can see they have the same (very long) wheelbase (the RS is one foot shorter than the AI). I haven't taken a test drive yet so I don't know how that will feel although from my reading, I am led to believe the extra length on a longer wheelbase isn't as bad as say extra width, or a shorter wheelbase (with regard to cross winds - parking and backing up is another story).

I tend to like the interior design of the Airstream better than the Roadtrek and am also to understand that Airstream is ordering their chassis with every available safety option which seems a nod in their favor. I have my eye on a used 2016 with low miles for $100K, it has the Air Ride Suspension. I have received a quote for a new 2017 Tommy Bahama without Air Ride for $129K, or a new 2017 Tommy Bahama with Air Ride for approx. $135K. The 2016 has the interior colors I like best. They all have the screen doors that are a must. None seem like they have much in the way of solar panels (possibly can add?). You have to go to a 2018 model to get 300 w of solar and a tankless hot water heater. But they have the compressor fridge which is nice.

I know there are QC concerns with Airstream but honestly there seem to be concerns with so many of the ones I've been drawn to (for layout purposes as well as aesthetics / other than the Leisure Travel Vans, but not really wanting to go to a B+ with the extra width, nor can I go with the cheaper Wonder as it only has two seat belts so up in a pretty high price range... it's a non-starter anyway. I want a B).

This has all been such an education. I have just posted over on the AirForums to ask some advice there too (I am reverie room over there... my old screen name when I was looking at TT's).

In any decision making it is easy to bounce from one attribute to another in their level of importance, but, latching too early could lead to a wrong decision. I want make a point regarding handling, we have 144” tall Sprinter and never experience difficulties on highway driving. If I had to select B-Class length again I would stay within 20’ or less, easy parking, parks in a normal garage (tall ceiling) and in regards to Sprinter great handling.

[tgregg]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

In any decision making it is easy to bounce from one attribute to another in their level of importance, but, latching too early could lead to a wrong decision. I want make a point regarding handling, we have 144” tall Sprinter and never experience difficulties on highway driving. If I had to select B-Class length again I would stay within 20’ or less, easy parking, parks in a normal garage (tall ceiling) and in regards to Sprinter great handling.

Indoorsy,

I agree with George on both points. Prioritize the attributes that are important to you and make your comparisons on those points.

And if handling, driving in cities and ease of parking is important stay less than 20 feet.

We have a 159" wheel base high roof standard length (19' 8" ) Promaster that we converted to a camper and we use it as our only vehicle as well. It's very easy to drive around town, park in a normal parking spot and is easy to drive and comfortable on the highway as well.

Good luck,

Tom

[<<B-Guy>>]

Originally Posted by tgregg

Indoorsy,

I agree with George on both points. Prioritize the attributes that are important to you and make your comparisons on those points.

And if handling, driving in cities and ease of parking is important stay less than 20 feet.

We have a 159" wheel base high roof standard length (19' 8" ) Promaster that we converted to a camper and we use it as our only vehicle as well. It's very easy to drive around town, park in a normal parking spot and is easy to drive and comfortable on the highway as well.

Good luck,

Tom

Indoorsy,

You might want to check out this rather interesting analysis of people seeking to buy a Class B. It's a bit long, but comes to some conclusions that I tend to agree with!

Some food for thought!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rltpR-MsmpE

In terms of quality, this analysis holds the opinion that Pleasure Way exceeds that of Airstream.


I have owned a top of the line Airstream "Classic" trailer for the last ten years. When I bought it, I thought I was buying the epitome of RV quality. But not so sure now, although it may have been at one time.

Airstream is now owned by Thor Industries one of the largest companies in the RV field.

If you spend any time on "Airforum" you will find a lot of concerns expressed about quality of new Airstream products - even to the point of suggesting class action lawsuits should be launched over some problems on new trailers - although that has not happened to me knowledge!

I'm not saying ours had been a disaster, and no doubt it is better made than
most RV's. But it hasn't been as great as I anticipated! Maybe my expectations were too high for the $$$ that they cost! Perhaps 3 or 4 times that of an equivalent sized trailer of another make

I suppose the lesson I learned is that no doubt, to some degree, quality generally goes up with money expended, but it seems far from a linear relationship !

At the moment I am sort of focussed on Pleasure Way and Roadtrek, class B's and this is what the above youtube analysis seems to have predicted for me!

Brian