A little deflated after the Aktiv test drive...

[booster]

I assume the2 year warranty is because it is a non-Hymer/Roadtrek branded van?

If the the two year warranty is also for the lithium batteries, and not 6 years like the other lithium units, I would run away from them as fast as I could. Can you get AGM in the V2?

One of the early ZionSRT buyers has had the 200ah lithium setup replaced 3 times in the first two years.

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by indoorsy

...

I don't know… For $40,000 price difference, [...] She can follow me in a car for that much money.

....

That's a good one.

[indoorsy]

You all make such good points... truly the power of a forum like this. I hope to one day be in a position to offer help the way you've all so graciously done to me.

Jon, you're right of course... I was doing mental gymnastics trying to convince myself that the cost savings justified not having the adequate number of seatbelts.

Phoebe, those little teardrops are so cute. I saw a bunch of them at the two recent RV shows I went to (cooler models in Toronto than in Boston).

Booster, thank you. The V2 would be s gamble. I guess the Aktiv with loft less so particularly as I hope they've worked out some kinks and also the six year warranty but I've been told that each week I wait to order will result in an extra month of leadtime and that's says they are taking in A LOT of orders. What if they're careless in their haste?

Trusting them to do adequate quality control seems naive after all I've learned.

Wish going the more expensive route didn't also feel like a gamble

[jon]

There are cheaper alternatives depending on your needs.
We wanted to start an after school program at the wife's child care so we bought a 4x4 Sprinter passenger van justifying it for the school. Then I took it to Van Specialties in Portland and had it converted to a pass/camper van that can haul 6 kids (two back seat rows) with a sink, cassette toilet in a small closet, microwave, and fridge. Or I can remove one seat row and add a dinette/bed.

We needed a passenger van and we wanted a RV so we compromised a made a dual use van/RV. The Van was expensive because she wanted a 4x4 in 2015 the first year of the Sprinter 4x4 so we had to buy new. The conversion cost less than $20K Sportsmobile will charge $40K but you can start with a used cargo van,

You can get a slightly used crew van with seat belts for 5 and have Van Specialties or a similar conversion shop do a conversion to the back. Outside Van has a lot of examples but they're expensive.

Sportsmobile has a DIY design app that lets you design your own on different van floor layouts.

Looking is a lot of fun. When our after school program outgrows our limited seating van we'll sell and get separate passenger vans and RV vans, We both like the Aktiv a lot too. Until then we are using our van nearly every weekend for some kind of family outing even if it's just an hour drive for a picnic. The point is to start with whatever you can get because once you start using your Class B you'll realize that your actual needs will be a lot different than you thought....Probably.

Jon

[GeorgeRa]

I would suggest calling Sportsmobile as well, I think you narrowed down what you want so check what will be the cost. Penthouse, vanilla LPG appliances, perhaps Truma or not, compressor fridge, cassette, 200-300 Ah AGM, 200-300W solar, Transit non-turbo, Promaster, Sprinter gas.

[BBQ]

.

Call up Sportsmobile and ask how much it would cost to put a pop top on a V2.

I am sure you will come out winning

[BBQ]

.

Have you looked at the Travato 59G ?

It has 4 seat belts up front.
Mind you, the dinette seats are ok for dinner or work. I am not sure about long-distance travel.

Sleeps 2 in the rear bed.

The dinette can be converted into a bed; it takes 2~3 minutes.

[jon]

Originally Posted by BBQ

.

Have you looked at the Travato 59G ?

It has 4 seat belts up front.
Mind you, the dinette seats are ok for dinner or work. I am not sure about long-distance travel.

Sleeps 2 in the rear bed.

The dinette can be converted into a bed; it takes 2~3 minutes.

Speaking of 4 seats up front the Safari Condo flex 21 has the most automotive type seats in the front dinnett config.
http://m.safaricondo.com/en/enmotori...EX#anchor_page

Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by indoorsy

s pretty nice. I had read another thread that you were involved in (Mumkin) where you were looking into it so I just thought I would reach out and ask your thoughts. The salesman I worked with today showed me all these differences from the V1 to the V2 and all the improvements. It was quite a nice van.

First off, the Van 1 and 2 are the Camping World models. Personally I would avoid Camping World. The exact same van is the Carado Banff... only difference is the dark wood. And yes, they have upped their game and fixed some of the most atrocious issues.

http://caradorv.com/models/banff/

This is sold by most Hymer dealers and I do believe that you could special order it with the options that you want. (underhood generator? solar? AGMs?) You might want to query the dealer that you have considered for the Activ Pop-Top to see if he has one to try out. Yes, the little bathroom fan in the ceiling of the living area is a bit of a joke. You do realize that it only has seatbelts for 2... driver and passenger seats?? Also there is a combination black/gray tank... which is a pro or con depending on one's opinion. Note that it also comes on the basic platform... just a radio... no backup camera or GPS. (this may change on the 2018 vans... they are still building on 2017s at the moment)

Your decision is how much do you want to spend. How many do you want seatbelts for? How many do you want to sleep? Is hauling a tent an option? (but you still might need more seatbelts) Or towing a tiny teardrop trailer that will sleep a couple? So many options.

I have considered the Banff and the little Axion. But it would require some adjustments to the floor plan for my use. I only need to sleep one human and one small dog... my restriction is that it must be under 20 feet.

[indoorsy]

hi BBQ, I did look at the Travato 59G. I like the idea of Winnebago as there are dealers close by and it seems a more known entity. Having said that the 59K does not work because of the lack of seatbelt and for me the 59G does not work as I think that bed is too narrow to actually sleep 2 people (at least the people I know!). I like how it optimizes the living room portion and if the sleeping were a bit more roomy, I could see it working, but it won't for me

jon, thank you for sharing your sports mobile story. I've been on there website multiple times and its good to hear a success story. Their lead-time is 8-12 months and their starting price is $85K. I think if I had more experience or if I were through this transitory time of my life (kids at home, big question as to what the future holds for me in terms of when I am an empty nester), it would be easier to sign on to that route, but I don't think at this juncture it is right for me.

I have long loved the Safari Condo route. I almost went for the Alto TT a couple of years ago. The lead-time put me off - had I pulled the trigger I'd have it now! But honestly I really like the idea of the smallest B Class that will meet my needs vs. a trailer. I think I'll use it more. When I think about the Flex 21 I get a bit overwhelmed about the process but it does make a lot of sense and I thinking more about it, mainly because I feel so much pressure right now to make a decision on the Aktiv Loft. With a 16 week and growing fast lead time it seems, I either pull the trigger right NOW or put the whole thing off for another year. If I am to opt for putting off another year, then the Safari Condo with long lead time becomes more of a possibility as I am taking one of the limitations out of it.

Mumkin, I just knew you'd have all the info! Thank you... I had read all about Camping World and to stay away. I went up out of curiosity (and to see the Winnebago ERA 70A floor plan since they had one there - I liked the Sunlight V2 better - I prefer the lighter cabinetry (A LOT) and I liked the more open floor plan - the cabinetry in the ERA was a bit too slick for my tastes. and the bi-fold doors into the bathroom seemed much less optimal than the door on the track in the Hymer Aktiv (I really like that feature and I think it is an example of German engineering - functional, attractive etc).

So my current thinking (which could change) is to NOT pull the trigger to get the Aktiv Loft order in right now - I think with their production schedule so busy, and their reputation to pump stuff out quickly into the market, quality concerns be damned, it gives me pause.

So I still absolutely love it but the decision to order now seems so binary - order now, get it in May. Wait until they have one in stock that I can actually see, get it next year. My gut says to take a breath of air, acknowledge I won't have anything for this summer, and consider more closely, the two options that make most sense - the Safari Condo Flex and the Aktiv Loft.

I would also like to learn more about the tax code with regard to deducting interest using a HELOC. The code has changed but I think an RV with a kitchen, bath and bedroom is considered a second home so possibly deducting the interest is still possible where I was thinking that was shut down. I have money in my brokerage account but the stock market is going so bananas I think keeping that money there and using the cheap HELOC interest rate makes more sense. I need someone with more financial savvy than I have to walk me through that.

[indoorsy]

having said all that in the last post, I still like the layout of the Aktiv Loft with power sofa bed better. I still like the idea of having it this summer better.

ugh! I'm all over the map (but also not all over the map - I know what I want, despite feeling that its a bit crazy to spend that much money, I have the money... I am just put off my some of the judgement calls Hymer made - what if I get caught in that crossfire!

[GeorgeRa]

Did you consider Sprinter Westfalia/Airstream. https://www.google.com/search?q=spri...h=1260#imgrc=_
Diesel engine doesn’t gave troublesome DEF fluid injection, long life engine, I think it meets all your needs. If it is in good shape could be less trouble than RT Li shtuff.

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by indoorsy

having said all that in the last post, I still like the layout of the Aktiv Loft with power sofa bed better. I still like the idea of having it this summer better.

...

Have you tried a power sofa?

They are not comfortable for sitting,
and they are not comfortable for sleeping.

Weekend trips are ok,
but I won't be able to survive more than a few nights.


ps. the seat belts at the far end are useless.
Those seats are bouncy. They are good for short trips (30 min or less). Kids don't mind, but most adults will get seasick riding in the back.

[mumkin]

I agree with Booster. RVs are very bouncy in the back.

And if I end up ordering an Activ 1.0, it will be with the platform bed. I find the power sofas to be VERY uncomfortable to sleep on... even adding lots of foam padding. That said, many people don't seem to mind them.

[jrobe]

Originally Posted by BBQ

Have you tried a power sofa?

They are not comfortable for sitting,
and they are not comfortable for sleeping.

That is certainly not a good generalization. The rear sofa is the most popular design for a Class B's and has been for years (certainly for Roadtrek, Pleasureway, Sportsmobile, etc.). I doubt this would be true if no one could sit or sleep comfortably on it. In fact, it is probably is the most efficient design element for the small space of a B.

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by jrobe

That is certainly not a good generalization. The rear sofa is the most popular design for a Class B's and has been for years (certainly for Roadtrek, Pleasureway, Sportsmobile, etc.). I doubt this would be true if no one could sit or sleep comfortably on it. In fact, it is probably is the most efficient design element for the small space of a B.

You are right -- it is an efficient design. Nothing more.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by jrobe

That is certainly not a good generalization. The rear sofa is the most popular design for a Class B's and has been for years (certainly for Roadtrek, Pleasureway, Sportsmobile, etc.). I doubt this would be true if no one could sit or sleep comfortably on it. In fact, it is probably is the most efficient design element for the small space of a B.

I agree. The tri-fold electric sofa-bed on our GWV Legend is quite comfortable in both modes. It is easy to screw up, though. ARV's early efforts to clone this design were IMO unsatisfactory. I'm sure they figured it out eventually.

[indoorsy]

Oh, wow, this is new info...
I now wish when I was in Toronto I'd know to spend a bit more time evaluating the power sofa. I did sit on it and I did find it not the comfiest. I remember thinking "this will be fine for the kids". I didn't find the front bench seat overly comfortable either. But in both cases, I thought, at least there are seatbelts (and I liked the aesthetics).

I put the sofa bad flat and laid on it, but for only about 30 seconds. It felt okay, but I think I spent some time on the drive home thinking about where a mattress topper could be stored, so clearly my subconscious picked something up during the 30 second trial.

It seems clear to me that I need more time to evaluate all of this.

Hearing that it's a bouncy ride back there- ugh.... the kids will occasionally fight over who gets the front seat both claiming it helps with their car sickness. I appreciate knowing about this... I think I'd need to test drive with people back there... sounds like it's not quite the living room on wheels I was chalking it up to be.

[booster]

We had the power sofa in our C190P Roadtrek and it was "OK" for sitting and was also "OK" for sleeping if we kept it just a bit off of fully flat, so the head end was up a little. I think we would have been able to survive with it for longer trips, but it certainly wasn't really good sleeping like at home.

What put us over the edge to get rid of it was that it took up all the storage space in the rear. For some silly reason, Roadtrek had the two supports part way in from the outside, so all the spaces that were left small. Add the space used by the folding mechanism itself and there was hardly any useful space left. We built a full time bed that has a full 5' deep by the width between the wheelwells totally clear area and a marine latex mattress. We now are as comfortable as at home. The bed is also used as a lounger by using the backrest style pillows. Works well for us.

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by booster

What put us over the edge to get rid of it was that it took up all the storage space in the rear. For some silly reason, Roadtrek had the two supports part way in from the outside, so all the spaces that were left small.

This is still true. The mechanism and legs take up way too much what little is left after the fact that a battery is on one side and the inverter is on the other. Of course, I am in the tiny 170.

What I love about the rear set up of the Activ with the platform bed is that it allows you to fold it up and have access for hauling stuff in the rear. Since my rig is my only vehicle, that would be useful. Plus lots of useful cabinetry.

Indoorsy... I suggest that when you do another test drive, you let the salesman drive and you ride in the back to see if you think the kids could handle it. You might have to try it in a different unit, like the Roadtrek Zion SRT which comes with a rear sofa standard. I (illegally) rode in the rear bed of a Class C from the docks in New Jersey down to Washington DC back in the '70s and I admit that we giggled and bounced all the way. It was like a carnival ride and I've never had any issue with carsickness. The Promaster shouldn't be anywhere near as bad as this bigger RV with a longer rear overhang.

Another question is how often would you be hauling enough passengers to have to sit in the rear since you would have seating for 4 up front in the Activ?