7yr dealer warranties on new Roadtreks

[booster]

Has anyone seen the details of the long warranties that some of the Roadtrek dealers are offering, either for free or reduced price (claimed at their actual cost)?


It would be interesting, especially for those currently shopping the Roadtrek discounts, to have better idea of what is covered, deductibles, etc, I think. Sometimes the aftermarket warranties have so many exclusions in them that they really don't cover the important and expensive stuff, so I hope these would be the better versions, and comparable to the Roadtrek warranty.

[mrshowtime3]

I would hope the Roadtrek situation showed people something about warranties in general. Let alone RV warranties. Id say to worry more about just buying a well made RV that uses components with good warranties individually. The majority of RV warranties are a joke.

[avanti]

Aftermarket warranties ALWAYS have so many exclusions as to make them ridiculously bad values. Either that or their business model is to go out of business when the claims start coming in. As I have discussed in detail elsewhere, it is simply financially impossible for such a warranty to be worth buying. They can't stay in business without making money, and they can't make money if they are paying out (on average) more than they are taking in.

There are two possible exceptions to this:
1) It is possible that the warranty companies are getting secret kickbacks from the dealers who are using these warranties as sales incentives. But, in this case you ought to be able to get the dealer to pay the kickback to you in the form of a lower price.

2) It is possible that the dealer is offering the warranty (which is really not a warranty but rather a prepaid service contract) directly, rather than through a third-party. This could possibly make financial sense, since the dealer would be doing the repairs themselves and thus doesn't have to pay profit to a third party. Also, they may place a cash value on keeping you "in the family" as a loyal customer, and keeping you coming back. However, in this case you are very likely limited to having all your repairs done at the selling dealer.

[#2 is the reason why an OEM extended warranty from the manufacturer of the chassis MIGHT be a good deal. The dealer has lots of ways of extracting money from loyal customers, and they own the supply chain of repair parts.]

It really is that simple. Except as per above, third party warranties simply CAN'T be a rational purchase. Yes, I fully realize that many people love them and there are lots of stories of people coming out ahead (or thinking they did). There are also lots of stories of people winning at roulette in Las Vegas.

[mumkin]

Some dealers are making a warranty part of the deal... giving it to the buyer. some are offering the warranty at their "cost" ... and some seem to be just hawking the same one that they always have with any deal. I don't recall reading of anyone getting a 7 year warranty.

I don't plan to buy one. The reason that I bought a Simplicity was that it has the 'simple' mostly tried and true systems. And I've always been a believer in self-insuring.

[booster]

Originally Posted by mumkin

Some dealers are making a warranty part of the deal... giving it to the buyer. some are offering the warranty at their "cost" ... and some seem to be just hawking the same one that they always have with any deal. I don't recall reading of anyone getting a 7 year warranty.

I don't plan to buy one. The reason that I bought a Simplicity was that it has the 'simple' mostly tried and true systems. And I've always been a believer in self-insuring.

I picked 7yr based on this one on ebay from Fretz RV.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/2019-Roadtr...2:pf:1&vxp=mtr


I am sure there are as many renditions and lengths as there are dealers

[gregmchugh]

I usually give people who are thinking about an extended warranty a link to this overview which seems to cover most of the pros and cons...

https://www.rv-dreams.com/rv-extended-warranties.html

[RossWilliams]

Paying for a warranty is like buying any insurance. On average it won't pay, but it does protect you if you happen to be the unlucky one with lots of repair costs. If you can afford to pay out of pocket for major repairs, then you are better off saving your money.

[Glamper]

We have been in touch with Truma, if you register the Truma Combi (Eco Plus) with them, we get two years warranty (if we do not register it is one year). Each of the OEM products has at least a year, but the issue is the wiring, plumbing etc, how likely is it that it will require a repair costing thousands? Wholesale Warranty offered Exclusionary policy (highest coverage) for $3800, 6 years, $200 deductible. Includes electrical/mechanical, not finishes (cabinets, upholstery) or batteries (which is standard for all of these policies). Is it likely we would spend $4K in repairs first 6 years? I know, no guarantees, just trying to play the odds...we are not DIY people.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

Paying for a warranty is like buying any insurance. On average it won't pay, but it does protect you if you happen to be the unlucky one with lots of repair costs. If you can afford to pay out of pocket for major repairs, then you are better off saving your money.

Insurance is rational as a means of pooling risk in situations where the probability of incurring the risk is low but the potential exposure is catastrophic. Examples are homeowners insurance, automotive liability insurance, and major medical insurance. In such a situation, you HOPE to lose--the best possible outcome is that you avoid catastrophe.

An RV "extended warranty" is exactly the opposite. The probability of encountering a claim is quite high, but never catastrophic. Anybody who can afford an RV can afford to get it fixed when it breaks. People who buy such contracts are betting that they will be "lucky" (i.e., UN-lucky). On average, they will lose that bet, and there is no good reason to take it.

The economics of the two situations are TOTALLY different. One makes sense, the other does not.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Glamper

We have been in touch with Truma, if you register the Truma Combi (Eco Plus) with them, we get two years warranty (if we do not register it is one year). Each of the OEM products has at least a year, but the issue is the wiring, plumbing etc, how likely is it that it will require a repair costing thousands? Wholesale Warranty offered Exclusionary policy (highest coverage) for $3800, 6 years, $200 deductible. Includes electrical/mechanical, not finishes (cabinets, upholstery) or batteries (which is standard for all of these policies). Is it likely we would spend $4K in repairs first 6 years? I know, no guarantees, just trying to play the odds...we are not DIY people.

If that is a typical policy and it doesn't cover batteries, that would take out coverage of the most expensive, and also probably most likely to fail, item in an Ecotrek equipped Roadtrek, leaving only lesser cost items.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Glamper

how likely is it that it will require a repair costing thousands?

Nobody on this list has ANY IDEA how likely such a repair is. You will get only anecdotes, which tell you exactly nothing, statistically.

However, you can bet that the warranty company knows those numbers quite precisely. They price accordingly.

[kite_rider]

When we bought our Carado Axion we were given a 'Forever Warranty' with it. No deductible, no maximum, no expiration! Wow, too good to be true... I'm a lot like Avanti when it comes to skepticism about warranties in general and *especially* skeptical of these aftermarket warranties.

This whole Hymer bankruptcy scandal brought these issues to a head. Late last year I had a small warranty claim with Hymer performed at my local dealer and they tried to claw back (from me) the overpriced claim they submitted with Hymer but hadn't been paid for.

I was able to resolve that issue with the dealer, but in the process they told me any future warranty would be 'customer pay' first and they would try to file a claim with the appliance vendor since Hymer was no longer around. So I asked about the 'Forever Warranty' that their sales people were so fond of, it kicks in after the factory warranty is no longer in service. So then the service manager changed his tune a bit and said he would do 'diagnostic' work on the van and submit it to the warranty company. If they didn't approve it I could proceed at my expense or take the van back but I would have to pay for the diagnostic time.

Anyway the things I want to highlight is that if you read the fine print on the warranty you will see that it only covers a very specific number of things and ONLY those things listed. There are a lot of things in the RV that are not listed. The other 'gotcha' is that you have to have your van inspected every year at a cost of $105 out the door. I did it last year and I don't think they actually did anything. If you don't do this each year the warranty is void. I worry that in future years they will use the opportunity to recommend bogus service.

I'm curious if anyone has any experience (good or bad) with this type of warranty. I'm keeping it current in case my compressor fridge, alde furnace, macerating toilet, or macerating waste pump fail on me (all are covered on this warranty) Plus, inspection cost hasn't been all that bad, but I want to hear if this has actually worked out for others.

[gregmchugh]

There are different types of warranties, some list all the items covered and nothing else is covered. Others list the items not covered and everything else is covered. Most people never read the fine print to find out what is covered until it is time to file a claim and they may be surprised at that point. I agree that, in general, the extended warranties are not a good buy but there are exceptions. When we bought a 2008 Jeep Grand Cherokee, Chrysler was offering a lifetime bumper to bumper extended warranty (usual exclusions on vehicle warranties for wear items and trim parts, etc.) with a $100 deductible. The dealer quoted $1800 for the lifetime warranty and I went online and found some dealers who were offering it online for $1100. They matched the price and since we planned to keep it until we die we got it. It has paid for itself at this point and we still plan to drive it until we die which is getting closer but not quite there yet...

[RossWilliams]

Originally Posted by avanti

Anybody who can afford an RV can afford to get it fixed when it breaks. ...

The economics of the two situations are TOTALLY different. One makes sense, the other does not.

I am not sure the first part of this is entirely true. I expect there are plenty of people on a fixed income who buy an RV on credit and don't have a lot of extra cash to pay for large repairs. They stretched their budget just to buy the RV.

But I honestly don't know about the second. What are the big ticket items and how much are they likely to cost? Most people use health insurance to pay lots of small bills they could afford to pay themselves, but cancer and heart attacks happen.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

there are exceptions. When we bought a 2008 Jeep Grand Cherokee, Chrysler was offering a lifetime bumper to bumper extended warranty (usual exclusions on vehicle warranties for wear items and trim parts, etc.) with a $100 deductible. The dealer quoted $1800 for the lifetime warranty and I went online and found some dealers who were offering it online for $1100. They matched the price and since we planned to keep it until we die we got it. It has paid for itself at this point and we still plan to drive it until we die which is getting closer but not quite there yet...

Yes.
As I said, OEM extended warranties are (potentially) exceptions to the logic that I outlined above. There are several reasons for this, including the following:
1) They can fix your van for far less money than anybody else, so it is not a zero-sum game as it is with third-parties. They an do this because:
1A) They can obtain parts at cost
1B) They have contractual arrangements with dealers to do warranty
repairs at favorable rates.
1C) They know everything there is to know about the vehicles they build.
2) They strongly value keeping owners "in the family", so they may be willing to subsidize such service contracts as a marketing expense to promote loyalty.
3) Every time you go to the dealer for warranty work, there is an opportunity to up-sell (e.g, inspections, oil changes, accessory sales...)
4) When their dealers do repair work, the OEM gathers valuable data, both technical and marketing. This has cash value.

For these and other reasons, OEM extended warranties can often be a win-win for the OEM and the owner. Third-party warranties cannot.

That said, not ALL OEM extended warranties are a good deal. Mercedes', for example is a very crappy inclusionary warranty that does not include some very important items (such as the problematic emissions system). OTOH, some of the Japanese warranties are superb.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

I am not sure the first part of this is entirely true. I expect there are plenty of people on a fixed income who buy an RV on credit and don't have a lot of extra cash to pay for large repairs. They stretched their budget just to buy the RV.

We will have to agree to disagree about whether such people can afford to buy an RV.

Plus, by buying an extended warranty, they are GUARANTEEING that they will be paying more than the average repair cost, even if they never have an issue. Can they afford THAT?

But I honestly don't know about the second. What are the big ticket items and how much are they likely to cost? Most people use health insurance to pay lots of small bills they could afford to pay themselves, but cancer and heart attacks happen.

I didn't say "health insurance", I said "major medical insurance". You are correct that most people would be better off with high deductibles and self-insure for small medical bills (The same is true of auto insurance). But different kinds of medical coverage tend to be bundled together (in order to maximize profits), which encourages people to act irrationally. Also, the medical scene is complex, since insurers have a vested interest in keeping you healthy. They would rather pay for a colonoscopy than for colon cancer.

[wincrasher]

My neighbor bought an extended 3rd party warranty for his big 5th wheel trailer. He had a laundry list of repair and replacement items they wanted done before a big trip. He called the company a few weeks ago, and they coordinated with the local mobile RV repair guy and they came out to repair him onsite. Took the better part of two days, and they completed his list to his satisfaction - including big jobs like replacing awnings and hydraulic jacks. They seemed to have all the parts on hand and ready to do everything, which they did. I was pretty impressed. But I have no idea what that warranty cost him, but I'm sure it wasn't cheap.

[RossWilliams]

Originally Posted by avanti

We will have to agree to disagree about whether such people can afford to buy an RV.

Plus, by buying an extended warranty, they are GUARANTEEING that they will be paying more than the average repair cost, even if they never have an issue. Can they afford THAT?

"average repair cost" is is pretty much meaningless in his context. You are insuring against the highest repair cost, not the average.

Any insurance policy that doesn't cost customers more than it costs to serve those customers was a mistake by the insurer. They expect to make a profit.

"I didn't say "health insurance"

No, I did.

"different kinds of medical coverage tend to be bundled together"

So are repairs in warranties.

" insurers have a vested interest in keeping you healthy."

Warranters have a vested interest in you maintaining your vehicle and often require basic maintenance as a result.

I don't think we really disagree, I just think there are a lot more people for whom a major repair would be a real economic hardship and a warranty may make sense. I also agree that OEM warranties are a different kettle of fish.

But I wonder what parts of the emissions system aren't covered under Mercedes warranty. My warranty includes a long list of emission parts that are covered for 5 years or 100,000 miles and are described as "required by law".

[avanti]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

"average repair cost" is is pretty much meaningless in his context. You are insuring against the highest repair cost, not the average.

Not meaningless at all. The "average repair cost" is the amount paid out by the insurer, averaged across all their customers. They know that value very precisely.

My point is that your elderly couple who took out a second mortgage to buy a camper van will already have lost more than that much before having a single claim. So, they are only "saving" on the other half. The actual dollar value of their "protection" is not very large, on average. Certainly not catastrophic under any reasonable scenario.

Any insurance policy that doesn't cost customers more than it costs to serve those customers was a mistake by the insurer. They expect to make a profit.

That is what I have been trying to explain. But for catastrophic insurance, their fee is a good value. For prepaid service (which is what we are talking about), the consumer gets NOTHING for the money they pay, statistically speaking, except protection for a low-probability catastrophe which isn't actually a catastrophe at all.

Most defenders of such warranties do not defend them as catastrophic protection. They almost always claim that "I've already got my money back". THAT is what is statistical nonsense.

"But I wonder what parts of the emissions system aren't covered under Mercedes warranty. My warranty includes a long list of emission parts that are covered for 5 years or 100,000 miles and are described as "required by law".

I think you may be confusing your warranties.
We are not talking about the basic warranty (or its legally-required extensions). We are talking about extra-cost OEM Extended Warranties. The MB Extended Warranty is an INCLUSIVE warranty, and no version of that I have ever seen has ever mentioned any emissions component. If you have one that does, please post it.

[RossWilliams]

The average repair cost is the average cost of each repair. You are talking about the average of total repair bills for all their customers and it is still irrelevant to individual customer.

"My point is that your elderly couple who took out a second mortgage to buy a camper van will already have lost more than that much before having a single claim."

No, they will have paid a little more than the average, since the company has to make a profit. But they will come out ahead if their repairs are a little over average and they will come out way ahead if they have a huge repair bill.

Moreover, the idea its just elderly couples is what you would might expect from folks here. But there are a lot of young couples with kids who stretch their budget to buy an RV to take the kids to the state park and tow their boat along. They can afford the payments, they can't really afford an extra several hundred dollars for a repair, much less several thousands. And I would bet they can often roll the warranty into the purchase price and finance it.

I was referring to the standard MB warranty. I wasn't even aware they offered an extended warranty. I am not sure I would consider that much different than any other warranty. You buy it because you can't afford to fix the thing if it breaks. My bet is that there aren't very many OEM extended warranties that aren't profitable.