34+2=37 Another Lift Story

[Bjones7788]

BTW, before the front and rear spacers we hit a speed bump in Mexico and cracked the sewer crossover pipe and had crunched the tank strap bolts multiple times requiring rewarding and even deformed the ground effects support structure but now with three inch lift (or more in front) problem solved - Yes!

[ChicagoTom]

We have speed bumps in our Gated Community. Never touched yet. I do stop and go very slowly over the speed bumps. Maybe your setup is different.

[Buc22]

Thanks for the info!

[Buc22]

Originally Posted by ChicagoTom

We have speed bumps in our Gated Community. Never touched yet. I do stop and go very slowly over the speed bumps. Maybe your setup is different.

I also go slowly over them but here in central texas they keep making them taller in parking lots. Also I have already installed rear airbags myself with the 3" bump stop built in and when I tried to install front coil spacers I could not get them in so I contact a truck lift shop and after 2 days gave back and said they could not do it either. Since then I have contacted over 8 shops and no one wants the job so I am left with either install the same as stock length moog 81004 with single higher spring rate or the expensive 3' lift spindle which I am confident I could install.

[booster]

We were careful and never hit bottom in the first two years, but then got just the right/wrong combination of circumstances that we did hit and broke the plumbing. Would never have guessed we would hit there, but it was a parking lot exit to the street that just happened to have a dip just a bit before the sidewalk and somewhat steep apron right after the sidewalk going to the street. Dip and apron were pretty much exactly the same distance apart as the wheelbase so both ends dropped at the same time and we high centered on the sidewalk. Wouldn't have mattered how slow we were going as it would hit there even not moving under those conditions. We lifted about 2" and have gone out that same exit many times since.

[ChicagoTom]

Just for grins I went out and measured my low point. 6" at the black tank cap and the generator tail pipe is about 6 1/2" Good luck!

[rowiebowie]

My 2" lift (that somehow turned out to be 3") made no difference in ride quality as the shocks, springs are the same. Just riding higher than before with new bump stops that take up most of the raised gap.

I never dragged anything in over 3 yrs. of ownership, but the lift gives me peace of mind I won't. I'm sure I've come very close before, and this will avoid potential expensive repairs which justify the $1100 cost of the lift.

I may get my front end alignment done tomorrow. If not, then on Monday. Will let everyone know if they can get it within acceptable range of OEM specs.

[Buc22]

Originally Posted by rowiebowie

My 2" lift (that somehow turned out to be 3") made no difference in ride quality as the shocks, springs are the same. Just riding higher than before with new bump stops that take up most of the raised gap.

I never dragged anything in over 3 yrs. of ownership, but the lift gives me peace of mind I won't. I'm sure I've come very close before, and this will avoid potential expensive repairs which justify the $1100 cost of the lift.

I may get my front end alignment done tomorrow. If not, then on Monday. Will let everyone know if they can get it within acceptable range of OEM specs.

Good to hear this project went well! I did contact the shop that did your rig and talked to the guy who did your van he did not seem to want to do another. He said how difficult the job was and wanted 3 days to complete the job.

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by Buc22

Good to hear this project went well! I did contact the shop that did your rig and talked to the guy who did your van he did not seem to want to do another. He said how difficult the job was and wanted 3 days to complete the job.

How strange, and just goes to show how shops run hot and cold on specialty jobs. I wonder what the other shop in Corpus Christi, 4-Wheel Specialties 361-991-5438, would say now?

They were the ones with the alighnment lift rack that allows them to drop the wheels after a vehicle is on the rack. At the time, they were only concerned whether it would fit on their lift and they confirmed it would while I was there. Their labor was about double the other shop (a little over $1000, but included alighnment), so that is why I didn't go there. (Their quote included labor to install the rear lift blocks and bump stops as well - which you've already done.)

The front coil lift is certainly something I wouldn't attempt, but it's pretty basic for a shop. The only obstacle our vans present is the lift part. Otherwise, it looks like something the guys at Supreme Suspensions could do in a couple of hours.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XimofOztvpE

[booster]

Originally Posted by rowiebowie

How strange, and just goes to show how shops run hot and cold on specialty jobs. I wonder what the other shop in Corpus Christi (4-Wheel Specialties) would say now? They were the ones with the alighnment lift. At the time, they were only concerned whether it would fit on their lift and they confirmed it would while I was there.

Yep, not really surprising to me, though. I hired mine done at a truck place the first time to get the stock height ones in, so no drama. Second time was just testing the much touted Erb springs, which were maybe .25-.50" to tall to put in with compressing, which really complicates the job. Local frame shop said not problem even though I told them how big they were and that they would need a BIG spring compressor. They mucked around all day prying and hammering and did get them in without compressing (their compressor was the strut type do wimpy) albeit very dangerously. They tore both ball joint boots and gouged up lots of other stuff. The Erb springs were junk, so I bought the big compressor and put the old ones back in myself. Putsy with the compressor, but if not working off the floor, on stands, would not be horrible.

The Moog springs are listed as stock height, so if they had trouble, they must have been longer than listed. Stock height ones can be done in a very short time. The truck shop did the stock height ones in about 35 minutes for both with another 20 minutes to align it.


If you are doing a spacer lift, you will also need the spring compressor as you have to compress the stock spring over an inch to get the spring and spacer back in to the deep upper spring pocket, so that would also be a PITA.

[Buc22]

Originally Posted by booster

Yep, not really surprising to me, though. I hired mine done at a truck place the first time to get the stock height ones in, so no drama. Second time was just testing the much touted Erb springs, which were maybe .25-.50" to tall to put in with compressing, which really complicates the job. Local frame shop said not problem even though I told them how big they were and that they would need a BIG spring compressor. They mucked around all day prying and hammering and did get them in without compressing (their compressor was the strut type do wimpy) albeit very dangerously. They tore both ball joint boots and gouged up lots of other stuff. The Erb springs were junk, so I bought the big compressor and put the old ones back in myself. Putsy with the compressor, but if not working off the floor, on stands, would not be horrible.

The Moog springs are listed as stock height, so if they had trouble, they must have been longer than listed. Stock height ones can be done in a very short time. The truck shop did the stock height ones in about 35 minutes for both with another 20 minutes to align it.


If you are doing a spacer lift, you will also need the spring compressor as you have to compress the stock spring over an inch to get the spring and spacer back in to the deep upper spring pocket, so that would also be a PITA.

Leaning towards just trying the Moog 81004 and as you said stock length not to hard to install but add the spacer and I could not do it. May look into 3" lift spindle which would be piece of cake to install and would not even have to deal with the coil spring, but they are $1500 a set. Will update when I finish this project started in Dec, but got side tracked getting rear diff rebuilt and Texas winter freeze with no water.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Buc22

Leaning towards just trying the Moog 81004 and as you said stock length not to hard to install but add the spacer and I could not do it. May look into 3" lift spindle which would be piece of cake to install and would not even have to deal with the coil spring, but they are $1500 a set. Will update when I finish this project started in Dec, but got side tracked getting rear diff rebuilt and Texas winter freeze with no water.

Personally, I am not a fan of lift spindles as they invariably mess around with the suspension geometry so can cause scuffing and other issues including poor handling.



If the 81004 comes out too high, which once you get in the 3" range may cause downtravel contact of the upper control arm and very careful setting of shock lengths to stop the downtravel, I think the spring could be shortened a bit with a large belt sander or even and angle grinder. They have semi closed ends but I don't think grinding one end flat would be an issue, especially at the top where the seat is flat. You would probably want to make the spring wire more round at the bottom to fit the curve of the pocket around out side and inside. Less than 1/2" shorter shorter should lower you and inch or so with the 2.3 ration of spring to tire.

[Buc22]

Originally Posted by booster

Personally, I am not a fan of lift spindles as they invariably mess around with the suspension geometry so can cause scuffing and other issues including poor handling.



If the 81004 comes out too high, which once you get in the 3" range may cause downtravel contact of the upper control arm and very careful setting of shock lengths to stop the downtravel, I think the spring could be shortened a bit with a large belt sander or even and angle grinder. They have semi closed ends but I don't think grinding one end flat would be an issue, especially at the top where the seat is flat. You would probably want to make the spring wire more round at the bottom to fit the curve of the pocket around out side and inside. Less than 1/2" shorter shorter should lower you and inch or so with the 2.3 ration of spring to tire.

Booster
That is a great idea! I don't own an angle grinder but any excuse is all I need to justify buying a new tool...haha. Love your suggestion
Thanks

[booster]

Originally Posted by Buc22

Booster
That is a great idea! I don't own an angle grinder but any excuse is all I need to justify buying a new tool...haha. Love your suggestion
Thanks

You could probably also rent one pretty inexpensively, if you have a tool rental place close. They would have ones that are much more powerfull than the cheap ones. Keep some water, even do it outside with a hose there, to cool it down if you need to, although with the mass it is you probably will need a break before it gets very hot. Set it on a flat surface to check to see if it stands up straight the check.

[rowiebowie]

Finally got the van into a shop for front-end alignment. It wasn't out too bad it seems even before the alignment. Caster & Camber was good. Toe was the biggest thing off. PS- I had never previously had the van aligned as the tire wear was pretty even and it tracked stright down the road.

In addition to the pic of the alignment results, I've also added "before" & "after" pics using theMexicanDoctors method of using soda cans for scale. By eyeballing it, it looks pretty much like 2" that was expected. But looks are deceiving and the lift was a full 3" in front and 2-1/2" to 2-3/4" in the rear as measured from the ground to the arch in the wheel wells.

.

[booster]

Pop cans make it look like about 3", has it settled at all yet?


Not bad alignment numbers, we have seen much worse in others. Ours also toed in with the lift.


While in the green the camber mismatch is not optimum, but if it has been driving OK it is usable. If there is a desirable spit it would be neg on the left and pos on the right to match right crown road. Centerline of spec is pos both sides and they gain positive on bump so you have a neg to pos transition on bump on the right. You probably won't feel it if it is driving OK though on such a heavy vehicle. Caster is great you have that much, ours limits out on the right side so we don't get quite that high. A little less extra on the right would be a bit better in general, that is what holds a right side crown in the road. With as much as you have you might find it going left faster than desirable on left crowns, which most of us are rarely on.


Looks good in general, and if it goes straight you are in good shape.

[rowiebowie]

It hasn't settled at all so far I can measure.

I breathed a sigh of relief the shop found no issues with steering/suspension parts and was able to do the alignment. It all looked good to me (it's great to be able to slide underneath and see everything after the lift), but for the shop the to not mention any problems is reassuring. I had them lube all zerk fitting while under there:

Pitman Arm Joint – 1
Idler Arm Joints - 2
Inner Tie Rods – 2
Outer Tie Rods – 2
Upper Control Arm Ball Joints – 2
Lower Control Arm Ball Joints – 2

The U-joints did not have any visible grease fitting that I could see. Is the Drive Shaft Center Bearing greaseable? It does not appear they did anything there even though I'd asked them to check it. If there is a zerk fitting, I can't see one there, but there is a small rubber cap that conceals something.