2023 Ram Promaster

[AlexJ]

Great to see the Promaster finally getting the sleek European front end and the super high roof option (for another 9” of interior height). Converters will have more vertical height to get creative with storage and hopefully more drop down beds. Now if they could just add a 4x4 option.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by AlexJ

Great to see the Promaster finally getting the sleek European front end and the super high roof option (for another 9” of interior height). Converters will have more vertical height to get creative with storage and hopefully more drop down beds. Now if they could just add a 4x4 option.

Front end does look better - but the addition of the high roof looks about as aerodynamic as a brick. 😎

[MsNomer]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

Front end does look better - but the addition of the high roof looks about as aerodynamic as a brick. 😎

And HR Sprinters and Transits don’t??

[jrobe]

I can't really figure out why anyone (including the RV manufactures) would buy a Promaster when you can buy a Transit with the ecoboost engine for the exact same price and it is available in 4x4. They don't seem to be comparable vehicles. That higher roof Promaster is going to be a $50k vehicle. I think they need to lower their prices to be competitive.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by jrobe

I can't really figure out why anyone (including the RV manufactures) would buy a Promaster when you can buy a Transit with the ecoboost engine for the exact same price and it is available in 4x4. They don't seem to be comparable vehicles. That higher roof Promaster is going to be a $50k vehicle. I think they need to lower their prices to be competitive.

Well, for one thing, I can report from current experience that buying a well-equipped Transit these days is easier said than done. I ordered my MY2022 not long after the order window opened last fall. I am still waiting for the van to be scheduled for production. I am not the only one.

[Punkinhead]

Originally Posted by jrobe

I can't really figure out why anyone (including the RV manufactures) would buy a Promaster when you can buy a Transit with the ecoboost engine for the exact same price and it is available in 4x4. They don't seem to be comparable vehicles. That higher roof Promaster is going to be a $50k vehicle. I think they need to lower their prices to be competitive.

I'm not really defending Promaster because I have a '22 Transit on order, but a couple of points: The Transit is not available in 4x4 except by a retrofitter like Quigley. You can get AWD though. And are you comparing apples to oranges with the $50K price tag? The AWD T350 with 3.5L Ecoboost and the options you'd want to turn it into a camper is about $65k MSRP. And both are nearly unobtainable. The chip shortage means Transits are in very short supply and my understanding is that Amazon is buying up all the Promasters so those are hard to come by too.

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by avanti

Well, for one thing, I can report from current experience that buying a well-equipped Transit these days is easier said than done. I ordered my MY2022 not long after the order window opened last fall. I am still waiting for the van to be scheduled for production. I am not the only one.

I ordered my new little Promaster 1500 in Jan, 2021 and it arrived end of Jun. It might have helped that with my small size I wasn't competing with Amazon, etal. I was quite surprised that I was assigned a person at FCA who send me a regular email on where it was sitting in the process with a time left estimate... that they beat.

What is the MSRP on yours? When I was pricing Transits about a year ago, they seemed to be sitting between Sprinter and Promaster in price... closer to Sprinter. (with rather matching options for my needs)

[avanti]

Originally Posted by mumkin

What is the MSRP on yours? When I was pricing Transits about a year ago, they seemed to be sitting between Sprinter and Promaster in price... closer to Sprinter. (with rather matching options for my needs)

MSRP was $64235, long/tall, very-well-equipped. I paid less than MSRP, but only by a token amount.

P.S. -- Ordering a custom Transit from scratch is kind of like doing organic chemistry. Hundreds of interacting options and very few coherent packages.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by avanti

MSRP was $64235, long/tall, very-well-equipped. I paid less than MSRP, but only by a token amount.

P.S. -- Ordering a custom Transit from scratch is kind of like doing organic chemistry. Hundreds of interacting options and very few coherent packages.

Seems as you passed organic chemistry test, congratulation. $64.2K in 2022 was worth about 53.2K in 2013, I paid for my Sprinter 2013 passenger model less than $50K and after selling benches about $45K. These electronic safety gadgets cost a lot.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by MsNomer

And HR Sprinters and Transits don’t??

The Sprinter and Transits have a bit more smoothing of the high roof line. Here is side view image the 2023 Promaster High Roof from Ram's web site.

https://www.ramtrucks.com/new-ram-pr...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

[Davydd]

The Sprinter offered a super high roof for awhile. Advanced RV built some of those. They quit offering them when the Charleston plant opened. With my height I don't need super high roofs.

The Ram Promaster front end does look better. They lost their Hoover vacuum cleaner look. They are still way too low to the ground in clearance.

Still not seeing many Ford Transit Class B RVs on the road. Mostly Promasters and Sprinters and a lot of old Chevys on our last 7 week trip this winter.

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by avanti

MSRP was $64235, long/tall, very-well-equipped. I paid less than MSRP, but only by a token amount.

P.S. -- Ordering a custom Transit from scratch is kind of like doing organic chemistry. Hundreds of interacting options and very few coherent packages.

Promaster allows the choice of option by option... clearly listed out on the internet with price. I was quite surprised having always been stuck with cars that had "packages" where you have to buy 10 things to get the 2 you want. I got all the bells and whistles that I wanted and needed in my little 1500... parking sensors, undermount spare, black wheels, cruise, silver color, automatic braking, (skipped the lane warning thing), full time rear camera playing in the rear view mirror, bigger alternator, security alarm, RV package, etc.

The MSRP was 38,200... and I got a huge discount through a company referred by the converter. My jaw dropped. It certainly gave me a hint about mark-up, and what Amazon, the big leasing companies, and the converters are paying. Likely closer to 25-30% off...

Luck and timing, I think...

[jrobe]

If you price out the 2022 Promaster with a high roof, extended model with all the available safety features, the MSRP is $60,000 (very close to the Transit).

Maybe the RV manufactures are getting bigger discounts on the Promasters over the Transits. Maybe the wait times for the Promasters are a little shorter now although there are virtually no new cars or trucks available for anything with the current supply chain problems. I can't think of any other reason that someone would choose a Promaster over a Transit when you compare the vehicles unless I am missing something. I could understand it if the Promaster was $10-20k cheaper.

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by jrobe

I can't think of any other reason that someone would choose a Promaster over a Transit when you compare the vehicles unless I am missing something. I could understand it if the Promaster was $10-20k cheaper.

It's a matter of what one wants and needs. I suspect that Promaster provides a lower price and more inventory than the others to the converters... for whatever reason. I've had 2 Promaster rigs and can come up with a few of reasons. First, I love the way it handles... with the front wheel drive... and small turning radius. Even without the sumos, it behaves very nicely in wind. Doesn't seem quite such a big box running down the road. The extra width on the interior also makes crossways sleeping comfortable. (massive difference for 5'4" me from the Chevy...lol)

Plus they are the only manufacturer that makes a 16' van. It is actually shorter than my Toyota Sienna was.

Of course, if you want or need to tow, you go for Transit or Sprinter.

[MsNomer]

Originally Posted by jrobe

I can't think of any other reason that someone would choose a Promaster over a Transit when you compare the vehicles unless I am missing something. I could understand it if the Promaster was $10-20k cheaper.

There's plenty good reason besides price to choose Promaster over Transit—where do I start? It's not a fluke that about 75% of European B's are Promaster's siblings—Ducato, Jumper, Boxer.

You won't get this sense of space in a Transit or a Sprinter—bed area width is 78”. More than 60” at top of curtain—I can carry a 5x5 sheet of Baltic Birch on edge behind the bed.



I'm only 5’6”, but would still need Transit's ridiculously high roof because the mid is too low. Then I would need flares which besides being expensive, looking wonky, and requiring aftermarket paint job which will never be as good as factory, would limit available window area.

Then there's all the handling stuff Mumkin mentioned, plus they don’t rust, plus they are reliable (we turned 180,000 last week), plus parts and service including drive train are available and cheap.

Will that do for a start?

[MsNomer]

Which brings me to a question for Davydd:

If ARV is so customer-oriented and flexible enough to satisfy every customer whim, why do they limit themselves to Sprinter? Do they assume that everyone who has that kind of money to burn wants the cache of the star even as the vehicle rusts around it?

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by MsNomer

There's plenty good reason besides price to choose Promaster over Transit—where do I start? It's not a fluke that about 75% of European B's are Promaster's siblings—Ducato, Jumper, Boxer.

You won't get this sense of space in a Transit or a Sprinter—bed area width is 78”. More than 60” at top of curtain—I can carry a 5x5 sheet of Baltic Birch on edge behind the bed.



I'm only 5’6”, but would still need Transit's ridiculously high roof because the mid is too low. Then I would need flares which besides being expensive, looking wonky, and requiring aftermarket paint job which will never be as good as factory, would limit available window area.

Then there's all the handling stuff Mumkin mentioned, plus they don’t rust, plus they are reliable (we turned 180,000 last week), plus parts and service including drive train are available and cheap.

Will that do for a start?

Low entry, flat floor with similar ground clearance*, width, more vertical walls are likely reasons for Fiat chassis anchoring European campervan market, I thought it was closer to 80% but can’t find this info to support it. I wouldn’t be shock if Promaster will do the same in NA.

I love your 360, good picture to appreciate it.

*Floor Height - With no drive shaft to the rear, the FWD Promaster's loading floor height is 7” lower than the Sprinter or Transit, an advantage for loading and unloading. Some also say this gives the Promaster much less body roll and a more secure road feel than the higher Transit and Sprinter. Despite appearances, the Promaster rear axle ground clearance is only 1” lower than the Sprinter/Transit rear differential (7.5” vs. 8.5” ground clearance).

https://www.campervan-hq.com/blogs/n...ing-a-base-van

[Davydd]

I guess you would have to ask ARV. I assume they started out with Sprinter before the Promaster and Transit were ever on the market and still believe the Sprinter is the best quality to match the brand. The cost difference of the chassis is inconsequential for their customers who want and expect the best. They have the expertise and ability to produce and adapt totally custom designs with the Sprinter. Why complicate that with other brands? They can build on the 3500 platform with an 11,030 GVWR. They can offer a 4x4 option. They can offer a Delco-Remy 330 second alternator as standard that you can't fit in a Promaster. They can offer fully functional nerf bars or skirts with all the utilities where the Promaster is too low. The skirt and nerf bars eliminate the many body penetrations for a stealthier look. Can you get 40 gallon fresh tanks, 26 gallon grey tank and 25 gallon black tank under any Promaster as I got in a 144 short Sprinter? No one has produced one yet. I'm sure I forgot something as I am not privy to their whys. As for a sense of space, you can get an ARV with no windows to one with windows all the way around. You'd have to ask GeorgeRA that sense of space question. He has touted that many times--in a Sprinter.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by MsNomer

Which brings me to a question for Davydd:

If ARV is so customer-oriented and flexible enough to satisfy every customer whim, why do they limit themselves to Sprinter? Do they assume that everyone who has that kind of money to burn wants the cache of the star even as the vehicle rusts around it?

I can provide one answer as I asked ARV the question about building on a Transit. They replied: "This would most likely add significant engineering cost to the build." Apparently, they haven't yet had a customer that is willing to pay for the extra engineering to build on a Transit and ARV is not willing to absorb that cost.

Bottom line ARV's experience and knowledge is with Sprinters.

[Bud]

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

I can provide one answer as I asked ARV the question about building on a Transit. They replied: "This would most likely add significant engineering cost to the build." Apparently, they haven't yet had a customer that is willing to pay for the extra engineering to build on a Transit and ARV is not willing to absorb that cost.

Bottom line ARV's experience and knowledge is with Sprinters.

I am recalling that during the maybe the first or second or so B Box video Mike said they would consider the Transit. But no mention of considering a Transit van.