2020 ProMaster Changes

[GigaGeek]

Has anyone heard what the changes will be to the 2020 ProMaster van? I read somewhere that it will be a significant update.

[rockymtnb]

No significant changes for RAM Promaster individual buyers. Fleet buyers will have RAM Telematics and Electronic Vehicle Tracking as late availability 2020 options.

Promaster 2020 features and options available here:
https://media.fcanorthamerica.com/download.do?id=21126

Promaster is the only RAM vehicle that does NOT get a major revision in the FCA RAM 2018 thru 2022 model five year roadmap. Whether it will get updates after 2023 is not yet clear.

https://www.motor1.com/news/243736/r...dmap-revealed/

[Snowy]

Thanks for the info Rocky. And bummer - the Promaster is now so far behind the Sprinter and the Transit that i am surprised they are waiting until 2023.

[bobojay]

Behind? In what way? If you are talking about all the electronic gizmos that most people will not use (us being one of them), I wouldn't call that behind, I'd call it economical for the fleet and individual buyer. (I would like to see a better, more modern radio though)
Anyway, you won't see any updates before 2023 as stated above. FCA has said that many times in their press releases

[n3ix]

2020 Transit will have AWD option, 10 speed trans, fwd collision, adaptive cruise and blind spot monitor. Also will offer a power slider, which all the Sprinter owners that have it already seem to love. So yes the Promaster is lagging way behind on safety and desirable features. And of course the Promaster factory radio is a joke.

[PinIN]

The Promaster is a utilitarian commercial van with a big profit margin, why rock the boat.

All we can hope for is that some of the Ducato stuff will migrate into the Promaster.

[Binny]

Originally Posted by PinIN

The Promaster is a utilitarian commercial van with a big profit margin, why rock the boat.

All we can hope for is that some of the Ducato stuff will migrate into the Promaster.

You could say the same thing about the Transit and Sprinter. Clearly Ford and Mercedes see value in it.

[Acei]

I would like to see more features as well, especially the safety features. At least they could have offered them as options for those who are willing to pay.

Their steering doesn't even tilt and the angle that is currently set is pretty awkward for someone like me...

[PinIN]

Originally Posted by Binny

You could say the same thing about the Transit and Sprinter. Clearly Ford and Mercedes see value in it.

The Ford and Sprinter offer different drivetrains, crew vans, cargo and passenger vans.

I think Ford has to sell a lot of vans because the profit margin is less for them.
Sprinter is high end.

Promaster, what length, what height, what color, with or without windows and you get no drivetrain option, in a basic cargo van.

One advantage the gas version Promaster has is that any independent mechanic can fix it and its cheap to fix.

I agree that Ram is missing the boat on this.

[Raindem]

Personally, I like the fact that the Ram is utilitarian. I wouldn't want power sliders, adaptive cruise, or any of the other electronic gizmos that are going to break in a year and need to be repaired.



As for the radio, it's a simple 5-minute job to swap it out with something better.


So here's one vote for simple, functional, and durable.

[MsNomer]

Make that two votes.

[KittyJames]

Does anyone know when Ram will release the 2020?

Will there be significant discounts on the 2019 models or will they pretty much be all gone?

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Raindem

Personally, I like the fact that the Ram is utilitarian. I wouldn't want power sliders, adaptive cruise, or any of the other electronic gizmos that are going to break in a year and need to be repaired.

As for the radio, it's a simple 5-minute job to swap it out with something better.

So here's one vote for simple, functional, and durable.

How about "safe"?

Do you have the slightest actual evidence that modern safety features are the least bit failure prone? There is PLENTY of evidence that they save lives.

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by avanti

How about "safe"?

Do you have the slightest actual evidence that modern safety features are the least bit failure prone? There is PLENTY of evidence that they save lives.

Depends on what safety features you're talking about. The Promaster has all the passive safety features of modern vehicles (except for maybe cross-wind assist). It's the active safety features, sometime called "nannies", that aren't always ready for prime time.

I've ready pleanty vehicle reviews by professionals and owners who say they turn off dynamic cruise control, lane-keep assist. alert drive warnings, etc. due to intrusive and over-sensitive alerts.

But I'm pretty sure the new Promaster will get a full suite of these features. I just hope they work as intended and don't create distractions.

[Raindem]

Originally Posted by avanti

How about "safe"?

Do you have the slightest actual evidence that modern safety features are the least bit failure prone? There is PLENTY of evidence that they save lives.

You mean besides the 30 million defective airbags?



Safety gadgets aren't important to me either. I'd prefer that people just get their nose out of their phone and start paying attention to what they are doing.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Raindem

You mean besides the 30 million defective airbags?

Safety gadgets aren't important to me either. I'd prefer that people just get their nose out of their phone and start paying attention to what they are doing.

Those "defective" airbags are still far safer than driving without them.

Of course folks should put away their phones. But it is just silly whataboutism to suggest that one kind of safety measure is somehow a substitute for another. The modern active safety features obviously and demonstrably contribute dramatically to safe driving. It is nonsense to suggest otherwise. The people who are annoyed by them are largely those who don't like to be confronted with their sloppy driving. If you stay in your lane and never miss anything in a blind spot, you will never know that these systems are there. A few of the very early ones were less than perfect (but still effective). The current generation is nearly magical.

I would NEVER buy a vehicle without these systems. They save lives.

[Snowy]

Originally Posted by rowiebowie

Depends on what safety features you're talking about. The Promaster has all the passive safety features of modern vehicles (except for maybe cross-wind assist). It's the active safety features, sometime called "nannies", that aren't always ready for prime time.

I've ready pleanty vehicle reviews by professionals and owners who say they turn off dynamic cruise control, lane-keep assist. alert drive warnings, etc. due to intrusive and over-sensitive alerts.

But I'm pretty sure the new Promaster will get a full suite of these features. I just hope they work as intended and don't create distractions.

When i was considering buying the first car that i could have with power windows, i thought, "another system, something else to go wrong." When i took it to my mechanic for a pre-purchase inspection, i asked him about my concerns. He said that they were very reliable, and i haven't had a car without the convenience of power windows since.

My first experience with keyless entry and a good backup camera (decent sized screen) was a Ford Explorer rental in the '00s. At first i was skeptical with the entry system - why do i need this and what could go wrong. After 3 weeks with all the gizmos in this car, i wanted them. (Keyless entry means you never have to take your keys out of where you have them and you can't lock the keys in the car.)

Now i have a 2015 BMW X5 with all the gizmos available then, including things not available on any van to my knowledge like a head-up display, night vision, sign reading by camera, etc. You call these things "nannys" and, in one case you are right. The lane-keep-notification-feature, which shakes the wheel when you get too close to the lines without using your turn indicators, goes off at times like when you are sneaking over to the edge of the lane to see around a big truck. It has too many false positives, so i turn it off. All the other things I love because they are really smart, are reliable, and they make the driving experience safer and more fun. For instance, you poo-poo auto cruise control. I live in Anchorage, AK and going south, the main highway (and only road) goes along a winding scenic path blasted out along the edge a fjiord. People, especially tourists, like to look around so they slow and speed up and it makes me tense to drive behind someone who obviously doesn't care about the people behind them. With auto cruise control, my car flawlessly maintains a set distance with the person ahead of me, so i stop thinking about their selfishness. I relax. There are other scenarios where the auto cruise control makes things better.

The head-up display is fantastic. It is bright white when looking into the sun, adapts to lower level light otherwise, and is a pleasant shade of red at night. It is always visible and never obtrusive. It projects an image in a small area of the bottom of the windshield that looks like it is just above the hood (you can adjust where it seems) and about 2 to 5 feet ahead of the car. Do i need this, of course not. But it allows me to glance down and see what speed i am going without taking my eyes off the road. Moreover, since i don't have to refocus to something that is near, like my dashboard or the radio, to something far, like the road, i never lose focus with the road. Until you experience this, you don't know how good this is. Moreover, since the car has a camera and sees what seems like every speed limit sign, the head-up display also shows a small speed limit sign with the current speed limit in it. Do i need this, no. But it is great not only being able to easily see what speed i am going, but also knowing what the current speed limit is. Moreover, since my car also has night vision, it can see people and animals in the dark. Alaska has long stretches of dark roads, and moose can be anywhere. People can surprise you too. When the vehicle sees a moose or a person or any large mammal, it displays a person (for a person) or a deer (for any other large mammal) in the head-up display. I have had some false positives with this, but a lot of the time it sees the person or the moose before i do. This gives me more time to slow down and watch what the animal or person is doing to see how i need to react. The false positive are rare and it is worth a lot to feel that much safer. Moreover, whenever i change anything with the radio, another area of the head-up display shows what is happening. I can search or seek the radio or change podcasts or etc. without taking my eyes off the road or refocussing. This all makes the driving experience so much better.

I could and already have gone on.

In sum, until you have these things, you really don't have enough data to form a really valid opinion. I didn't know how smart, how reliable, and how useful, safe, and enjoyable these things are until i had them. Open your mind to how nice these things could be. These things do cost money, and perhaps someone could say they are just not worth it to me. If someone does this from an informed position, i totally respect that opinion. Other than the car and nice wine, i lead a pretty frugal life, so i get frugal living. I have the BMW because i need a car, and i can afford a good one, so why don't i just get the good one - just so you know where i am coming from.

[Raindem]

I get it. I know people become attached to the safety features. My wife is an excellent driver and has been for 30 years. But she's become dependent on modern safety features and now can't back up a tricycle without a camera.


Safety devices don't make us safer. They make us lazier.

[GeorgeRa]

We can keep this safety discussion but let just look back:

- Would you like to have mechanical brakes linked with cables?
- Do you really need power steering?
- How about power brakes?
- Why acetylene was eliminated from headlamps?
- Are flat tire warning ridicules?
- Are antilock brakes overcomplicated?
- Yugo was safe but people didn’t know how to drive it safely, right?

And my favorite, did you change your points lately?

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Raindem

Safety devices don't make us safer. They make us lazier.

Sigh...
Time to trot out actual data:

Highway fatalities.jpg

If modern technology has not made these lazy people safer, then it sure must have made them all a lot luckier.

There have been luddites in every age, I suppose (and please don't reply "I'm not a luddite". Your statements are the definition of ludditeism.) I remember when anti-lock brakes first came out. There was a hew and cry about giving up control of the vehicle and how "I can do it better than any machine" -- until the data started coming in.

You can do what you like (although eschewing these technologies endangers others, not just yourself). But, to deny that technology makes people safer drivers is simply ridiculous.