2020 ProMaster Changes

[avanti]

I have a daughter who once walked away from an accident in a Volvo that (for its time) had all the "bells and whistles". I am quite sure that without them, she would have been killed.

For me, this topic is not just idle chit-chat.

[Raindem]

I'm always amazed at how defensive and dramatic people get when one questions modern technology. You know, not every advance in automotive design is equally wonderful. Some are marginal. And others are downright useless.


Lucky for me, I guess, that every van is not a Sprinter van. The marketplace is big enough to accommodate all sorts of preferences. Dodge has found their niche and I hope it stays that way.



I see the direction this discussion is going. GeorgeRa thinks I long for the days of ignition points and Avanti thinks that merely having an opinion endangers others. I'll bow out now before someone asks me if I still believe the earth is flat.



Happy RVing!

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by Raindem

I'm always amazed at how defensive and dramatic people get when one questions modern technology. You know, not every advance in automotive design is equally wonderful. Some are marginal. And others are downright useless.


Lucky for me, I guess, that every van is not a Sprinter van. The marketplace is big enough to accommodate all sorts of preferences. Dodge has found their niche and I hope it stays that way.


I see the direction this discussion is going. GeorgeRa thinks I long for the days of ignition points and Avanti thinks that merely having an opinion endangers others. I'll bow out now before someone asks me if I still believe the earth is flat.


Happy RVing!

Well said. I must confess I've been doing something wrong these past 50 yrs (started driving a motorcycle at 15) because I've somehow managed to have never gotten into a wreck. The best safety device is always between your ears.

That being said, like Raindem, I'm not against modern cars and their safety features. In fact, I demand that each vehicle I purchase have all the safety features available for it's day. But we are reaching a point of diminishing returns as is the case with every improvement cycle.

Not trying to argue with anyone, just stating my opinion that if Promaster is a couple of years behind other brands, it's not the end of the world and will be addressed with their next model refresh. Maybe they'll also fix that homely front end.

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PS- My wife insists I mention that I do travel with driver assist wherever I go. She never fails to let me know my speed, my lane position, following distance, etc. And she's been doing it for all our 42 yrs. of marriage.
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[n3ix]

Originally Posted by Raindem

I'm always amazed at how defensive and dramatic people get when one questions modern technology. You know, not every advance in automotive design is equally wonderful. Some are marginal. And others are downright useless.


Lucky for me, I guess, that every van is not a Sprinter van. The marketplace is big enough to accommodate all sorts of preferences. Dodge has found their niche and I hope it stays that way.



I see the direction this discussion is going. GeorgeRa thinks I long for the days of ignition points and Avanti thinks that merely having an opinion endangers others. I'll bow out now before someone asks me if I still believe the earth is flat.



Happy RVing!

I don't think anyone said anything about "every advance" except you, and you are the one that has repeatedly used the dismissive term "gizmos" to broad brush all the new safety systems being discussed. From where I sit the only defensive posts are those defending the lack of these new safety systems in the Promaster.

[Bud]

Seems simple enough.

The additional safety gizmos or features of a Sprinter vs a Promaster are a relatively small part of a Huge Combination of Features of a B RV! e.g. how about just a very quiet a/c vs those extra safety features and then there is.......................... There are about a million, billion features of a B.

Me? I can't imagine making a B decision based on those extra safety features. Then again I'm a skeptic meaning anything is possible. Maybe all else is so close to equal with the million, billion features that I would choose based on those extra safety features?

Bud

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Bud

Seems simple enough.

The additional safety gizmos or features of a Sprinter vs a Promaster are a relatively small part of a Huge Combination of Features of a B RV! e.g. how about just a very quiet a/c vs those extra safety features and then there is.......................... There are about a million, billion features of a B.

Me? I can't imagine making a B decision based on those extra safety features. Then again I'm a skeptic meaning anything is possible. Maybe all else is so close to equal with the million, billion features that I would choose based on those extra safety features?

Your logic is sound if you are simply counting features. But, not all features are equal in value. That is why I told the story of my daughter's accident. Having her safe and healthy trumps all else in my value system. Everything else combined doesn't balance it. That is really all I am trying to say: These systems undeniably save lives. Turning them off is IMO irresponsible, as is pooh-poohing them as trivial gizmos.

[Anachr0n]

The 'optional' safety items of today often become 'required' items of tomorrow.

3 point belts
Right side mirror
Airbags
Child seat anchor points
Daytime running lights
Winter tires Nov->Mar (many provinces or mountain passes)

This is usually for the good, but it also drives up prices.

In the future, will all cruise control system need to be adaptive? Will all cars require pre-collision assist and lane keeping assist?

Will manufacturers be legally liable for the functioning of these systems? Will highway maintenance crews be liable for a failure of someone's lane keeping assist because they didn't keep on top of lane painting?

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Anachr0n

The 'optional' safety items of today often become 'required' items of tomorrow.

3 point belts
Right side mirror
Airbags
Child seat anchor points
Daytime running lights
Winter tires Nov->Mar (many provinces or mountain passes)

Yep. More to the point, the list of mandatory technologies now include ABS, stability control, and backup cameras. The first two are active features that to some extend remove control from the driver. They are required because the data on their net efficacy is overwhelming.

This is usually for the good, but it also drives up prices.

I don't have the numbers, but I bet that net-net they save money. They start out expensive, but when required, the volumes are so high that they end up costing almost nothing on the margin. Moreover, they greatly reduce insurance costs.

In the future, will all cruise control system need to be adaptive? Will all cars require pre-collision assist and lane keeping assist?

Surely the answer to all these questions is certainly "yes". And it won't stop there. We will soon be seeing federally-mandated vehicle-to-vehicle communications. If your car's systems can see everything that the car ahead of you can see, that is a game changer. This will also permit "convoy" driving, in which clusters of cars drive together in clusters--just a few feet apart. Driving in each other's slip-streams will save vast amounts of energy, and in itself greatly increase the range of EVs. This can be done very safely if and only if the vehicles communicate.

Will manufacturers be legally liable for the functioning of these systems? Will highway maintenance crews be liable for a failure of someone's lane keeping assist because they didn't keep on top of lane painting?

These are good questions, and it will all have to sort itself out. But, it isn't completely new territory. Are these liability issues really all that different from those of, say, a malfunctioning traffic light or a missing crash barrier? Many of the most important safety technologies reside not in the vehicle but on the highway. They have to be maintained just as carefully as the vehicles are.

[MsNomer]

It’s past time for an alarm if the car doors are locked from the outside and a child seat is still occupied. It should be so simple.

[Anachr0n]

Good points. Thanks.