2019 Gas Sprinter - not much torque? 9 speed transmission

[BBQ]

.

I won't be surprised when the 2019 is shipping, more gas engines will be offered.
They cannot disclose this now because if they do, their diesel sales will collapse.

This is only my speculation.

[mlts22]

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

Your experiences are non existent in Australia, where Petrol engined Pickups are now virtually ceasing too exist. Vast differences in what you experience with Diesels in the US and outside it

True, but what has effectively killed the diesel engine in the US is the Draconian emissions laws, which are stricter than Europe. A diesel engine made in the 1990s like the Ford 7.3 shows how reliable an engine can be, as I know a neighbor who bought one around 2000, added a gauge pack, to ensure he knew more than what the idiot lights said... and that truck is still on the road.

With all the additional subsystems a diesel requires, be it DEF, DPF, and others, it is no wonder why diesels are hard to make here.

Of course, Mexico is doing just fine with diesel vehicles.

[Robert Ryan]

Originally Posted by mlts22

True, but what has effectively killed the diesel engine in the US is the Draconian emissions laws, which are stricter than Europe. A diesel engine made in the 1990s like the Ford 7.3 shows how reliable an engine can be, as I know a neighbor who bought one around 2000, added a gauge pack, to ensure he knew more than what the idiot lights said... and that truck is still on the road.

With all the additional subsystems a diesel requires, be it DEF, DPF, and others, it is no wonder why diesels are hard to make here.

Of course, Mexico is doing just fine with diesel vehicles.

No NOT stricterUS compliance Diesels cannot be sold in Europe or will be the same soon in Australia, when we go too Euro 6 compliance. Much stronger emphasis on CO2 and Particulates than US Tier regulations. DEF and engine modifications should help remove the differences. Japanese regulations are much stronger than the US on Nox. I think there is a problem meeting Euro 6 though

[rockymtnb]

Originally Posted by BBQ

.
I won't be surprised when the 2019 is shipping, more gas engines will be offered.
They cannot disclose this now because if they do, their diesel sales will collapse.
This is only my speculation.

Unfortunately I don't think we'll see any other engine options in the near term.

Mercedes has presented very detailed plans for each drivetrain option on the new Sprinters, and previous engine revisions have always matched up with either new generation Sprinters (OM641, OM642) or mid-cycle refreshes (OM647, OM651).

Interestingly this new third generation Sprinter uses all prior generation engines:

Diesel inline 4: OM651
Diesel V6: OM642
Gasoline inline 4: M274

The next generation replacements for those engines are:

Diesel inline 4: OM654
Diesel inline 6: OM656
Gasoline inline 4: M264

And perhaps most interestingly there is a very powerful next generation Mercedes inline 6 gas engine with 400 hp and 370 ft-lbs torque:

Gasoline inline 6: M256

Those next generation gas engines also have 48 Volt electrical and mild-hybrid start/stop systems that hold promise for high power RV battery charging.

So perhaps we'll see new engines for the next mid-cycle Sprinter refresh?

[jon]

Originally Posted by avanti

Well, as a current Diesel Sprinter owner, my advice to anyone researching their first purchase is to make very sure that they fully-understand and properly weight the realities of owning a modern diesel. I really, really love our Sprinter and would be strongly disposed to get another one if I were to be in the market. But the nightmare stories of serial emissions failures, "10 starts remaining", limp modes, scarcity of sprinter-equipped dealers, and long wait times for appointments are very real.

I second and third this from experience. I'm surprised that I don't have any bullet holes in my Sprinter. My next van will be GAS.

The only thing more important than torque is gearing.....9 speed.

[Davydd]

For the record I have never had a long wait time for a Mercedes Benz Sprinter dealer service in 12 years of Sprinter ownership. In fact I have had the opposite in identifying my time and getting in and out. It was not just one dealer. I've gotten service in Rochester, MN for regular service and Plymouth, MN for regular service and exhaust system repairs. On the road I've had service and repairs in Scottsdale, AZ, Shreveport, LA and Littleton, CO. Scottsdale and Shreveport were Advanced RV warranty service repairs arranged by ARV. Littleton was a power steering fluid line failure where I drove to the dealer and boondocked on their lot, got up when they opened, talked to them for the first time and was out by 9:30 AM with a repaired line, a steam cleaned engine and a safety check under warranty without charge. There may be fewer of them but they give the best service I have experienced with any vehicle.

The only complaint I have now is I get regular promotional email almost weekly from five MB dealers cluttering my in basket.

[jon]

I’m not saying that my Mercedes service has not been a good experience. What I’m saying is that I have been 1000 miles from home and gotten the 10 starts till limp warning. I had to drop the Sprinter in front of the closest dealer and rent a car for two days while I finished my vacation. I’ve also had to drive over the last mountain pass on the shoulder with the emergency flashers on. This was after four or five trips to the dealer to fix my engine hesitation under load problem.
Maybe I just have bad luck but when I pay over 50 grand for a vehicle I don’t expect to be searching for the nearest dealer or trying to figure out what a specific warning light means. I expect to be out enjoying life not worrying if the engine is going stall on the next hill.

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by jon

I’m not saying that my Mercedes service has not been a good experience. What I’m saying is that I have been 1000 miles from home and gotten the 10 starts till limp warning. I had to drop the Sprinter in front of the closest dealer and rent a car for two days while I finished my vacation. I’ve also had to drive over the last mountain pass on the shoulder with the emergency flashers on. This was after four or five trips to the dealer to fix my engine hesitation under load problem.
Maybe I just have bad luck but when I pay over 50 grand for a vehicle I don’t expect to be searching for the nearest dealer or trying to figure out what a specific warning light means. I expect to be out enjoying life not worrying if the engine is going stall on the next hill.

Your unfortunate experience is not unique.
This has happened to an umteenth number of people.
(Especially when they are on vacation)

[jon]

Originally Posted by BBQ

Your unfortunate experience is not unique.
This has happened to an umteenth number of people.
(Especially when they are on vacation)

Not to get sidetracked but now that I worked all the bug out My Sprinter will probably go another 100K with no problems............but I can't wait to sell it in a year.

immaculately maintained all service records......Bound and indexed.

[dhectorg]

Originally Posted by LosAngeles

thanks.....

i should have mentioned... we'd be getting the 24' 3500 Sprinter.... so not a light vehicle! and we'd have beds / shower / gear in the back.



I know the 9 speed transmission would help.... but .... a bit worried.

thanks.

Oh boy, I don't think I'd consider this gas option for an extended 3500 Sprinter. That's way too little power/torque in my opinion for such a heavy vehicle to drive comfortably and safely on mountainous or hilly terrain. When MB said they were offering a gas engine, I assumed it would be a V6, not a 4 cyl. That said, only a thorough test drive can really answer the question, but I'm betting it'll be painfully (and maybe dangerously) slow.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by dhectorg

Oh boy, I don't think I'd consider this gas option for an extended 3500 Sprinter. That's way too little power/torque in my opinion for such a heavy vehicle to drive comfortably and safely on mountainous or hilly terrain. When MB said they were offering a gas engine, I assumed it would be a V6, not a 4 cyl. That said, only a thorough test drive can really answer the question, but I'm betting it'll be painfully (and maybe dangerously) slow.

That is what everybody said when they announced the I4 diesel for MY2014. It is now widely acclaimed as a small gem of an engine. Everyone (including me) who owns one loves it. As you say, though: We'll see...

[dhectorg]

Originally Posted by avanti

That is what everybody said when they announced the I4 diesel for MY2014. It is now widely acclaimed as a small gem of an engine. Everyone (including me) who owns one loves it. As you say, though: We'll see...

I've seen more than a few accounts of owners who are disappointed with the I4 diesel's performance, particularly those who drive a lot in the mountains, and the gas 4 cyl will be less torque than the diesel. Personally, I can't stand driving an under-powered vehicle, which can be unsafe depending on the situation. In my opinion, the amount of power/torque needed to safely propel a 5-6 ton vehicle, in all situations, is more than a 4cyl gas engine can provide. In any case, it's your money so buy what you want, as you have to live with it. When it comes down to it, perceptions of performance are subjective and largely depend on individual expectations. Either way, I'll stick with 6 cyls in a vehicle this heavy.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by dhectorg

I've seen more than a few accounts of owners who are disappointed with the I4 diesel's performance, particularly those who drive a lot in the mountains, and the gas 4 cyl will be less torque than the diesel. Personally, I can't stand driving an under-powered vehicle, which can be unsafe depending on the situation. In my opinion, the amount of power/torque needed to safely propel a 5-6 ton vehicle, in all situations, is more than a 4cyl gas engine can provide. In any case, it's your money so buy what you want, as you have to live with it. When it comes down to it, perceptions of performance are subjective and largely depend on individual expectations. Either way, I'll stick with 6 cyls in a vehicle this heavy.

Here are links to a few of the many threads over at Sprinter-Source representing owners' opinions of the I4 engine. They are not cherry-picked:

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/sh...hlight=7-speed

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/sh...hlight=7-speed

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/sh...hlight=7-speed

[dhectorg]

Originally Posted by avanti

Here are links to a few of the many threads over at Sprinter-Source representing owners' opinions of the I4 engine. They are not cherry-picked:

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/sh...hlight=7-speed

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/sh...hlight=7-speed

https://sprinter-source.com/forum/sh...hlight=7-speed

Doesn't matter. It's still anecdotal, unless you survey a sample group that is representative of ALL owners.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by dhectorg

Doesn't matter. It's still anecdotal, unless you survey a sample group that is representative of ALL owners.

Anecdotal reports may not be conclusive but they matter. You don't need a weatherman to know the wind's blowing.

[dhectorg]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

Anecdotal reports may not be conclusive but they matter. You don't need a weatherman to know the wind's blowing.

They matter to a very limited extent. The act of relying on limited examples to reach definitive conclusions is the very definition of confirmation bias. I'm sure there are people who like the 4 cyl, which is why I mentioned the roll of preference in a previous post. People have widely varying expectations when it comes to vehicle performance and this is why there are multiple engines available in these vans. Personally, I always prefer to have more power than I need, as opposed to less.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by dhectorg

They matter to a very limited extent. The act of relying on limited examples to reach definitive conclusions is the very definition of confirmation bias.

Statistics 101 regrets to advise that your pooch won't hunt.

Limited examples might well affect the accuracy of a prediction, but in the absence of manipulation, i.e. filtering or selecting examples, it has nothing to do with confirmation bias which involves scrubbing or downplaying data that doesn't support a preexisting position while emphasizing data that does.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Sure, I understand.... my suggestion is to drive the vehicle and see if it works for you. I understand that the 7 speed I4 diesels are almost as sprightly as the 6..... look it up on youtube... from what I recall they did a test and climbed to the Eisenhower tunnel in Colorado and the only time the V6 with the 5 speed really outperformed the Four was climbing the hills at a little slower speed.

All of the new 2019 models will be the 7 speed transmission.... Yes, it's less torque, however, none of these vehicles are speed demons, once you get going you're cruising.

If you do a lot of mountain driving... the diesel is the best option, in my opinion.
Good luck.

[dhectorg]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

Statistics 101 regrets to advise that your pooch won't hunt.

Limited examples might well affect the accuracy of a prediction, but in the absence of manipulation, i.e. filtering or selecting examples, it has nothing to do with confirmation bias which involves scrubbing or downplaying data that doesn't support a preexisting position while emphasizing data that does.

I've taken 3 statistics courses, 2 of them graduate level, but none of that knowledge is necessary to understand how confirmation bias works. I'm not sure why you need me to agree with you so badly, but sorry I don't....and I don't don't need for you to agree with me. Different strokes and all that.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by dhectorg

I've taken 3 statistics courses, 2 of them graduate level, but none of that knowledge is necessary to understand how confirmation bias works. I'm not sure why you need me to agree with you so badly, but sorry I don't....and I don't don't need for you to agree with me. Different strokes and all that.

Of course I need you to agree with me. How else can I nurture my confirmation bias?