2015 Zion vs Travato 59K

swo · 03-05-2016, 08:11 PM

Today i looked at a Zion with all the options I liked (underhood gen, larger tanks, screen package, front and back power steps, seats for 5, and solar) it was the twin bed model.

The last Zion I looked at had the rear sofa. I think I like the twins beds better certainly a more open feeling than the 2016 59G with serious body defects I looked at two weeks ago. (I still can't believe that vehicle passed 3 different QAs (the chassis builder, Winniebago's, and the dealers) - but some sucker will probably buy it)

The model toured today was a Zion 2015 leftover model. Posted price was 89900. Without any haggling they offered it to me for 76,900.
This is roughly 20% discount. This certainly brings it into the ballpark.
If i decide to go for it - I'd likely counter with a slightly lower offer - say 74K just to see what they say.

I'm wondering if I could get a 2016 Travato 59K for under that.
Do you recent 59K purchasers think that's possible?

The the Winnie has a better Microwave, slightly larger Bath Rm in the rear.
I could give up the underhood gen, larger tanks and extra seating and other R/T bells and whistles if I could get a somewhat similar floor plan for 7-8 K less than the R/T.

This is a tough decision. It took a while to figure out that the vehicle I get would be used more as touring vehicle with some over nighting features rather than a more extended camping vehicle (like the 59G).

Appreciate any feedback/advice from you 59K owners.

Jostalli · 03-05-2016, 09:16 PM

You will absolutely be able to get a new 59K for under $74k. I believe they are even advertised for less than that. Check with La Mesa RV. The one in San Diego beats everyone's price by a large margin.

wincrasher · 03-05-2016, 09:45 PM

I doubt you'll be able to get 8K less than the leftover Zion, but something $70-$75k on a K is doable, depending on what options you get.

I don't understand you comments on a K being lesser camping vehicle than a G. The bath is certainly more liveable than that in a G or a Zion. The refrigerators in the G & the K are essentially the same size since you can't stuff an absorption refrigerator and it work properly. As you stated, the convection oven is superior to the regular one in the G or the Zion. The K has a much bigger kitchen area and a deeper sink.

I make up one of my beds as a sofa with some back bolsters. It's a good place to sit and watch TV. The fold up tables are fine for eating or using a laptop. Group dinners are out unless you get the table/bed option in the K. I didn't like that arrangement so I didn't order the kit to retrofit my van for it.

Gobird@comcast.net · 03-06-2016, 01:12 AM

Long time lurker first time poster here. Just picked up 2016 59k last week. Went through same process with the Zion as you are experiencing, but the <$70k price of the k got me. Took first 100 mi shake down (with dogs) today and seems it will work out just fine. Drives great and seems to have limited rattles. Have a list of warranty repairs, but that's expected and believe dealer will take care of them. During our couple of snowstorms last week, the Truma did a great job of keeping it warm.
btw, thanks to all of you armchair engineers on here, it's quite an education! Question everything!

gobird

swo · 03-06-2016, 02:11 AM

What kind of things are you discovering that require attention?

Gobird@comcast.net · 03-06-2016, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swo

What kind of things are you discovering that require attention?

Both the Maxfan and the bath power vent are inop. Most of the coach overhead LEDs were dead upon arrival (tech claimed WGO got a bad batch). The cabinet doors above the galley are not properly aligned and the catches don't catch. A bath retaining strap is broke, and the bumper cover on the rear is not fully on. Of course I'm still exploring and today is the first day that it hasn't had snow on it. Planning for a garage before next winter.

What I have not noticed is any water in the running lights, nor sign of water in the engine compartment.

wincrasher · 03-06-2016, 12:33 PM

It seems to me that the number of issues is related to the dealer. Some do a thorough PDI and some just don't. Some have the attitude that it's not a problem unless the customer complains.

Fans not working and lights blown out? Check all your fuses. This one might have seen a power surge of some kind along the way.

gregmchugh · 03-06-2016, 12:57 PM

Heaven forbid, I thought from the usual banter here that Winnebagos never had the inconsistent quality that is seen on the Roadtreks...

Gobird@comcast.net · 03-06-2016, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wincrasher

It seems to me that the number of issues is related to the dealer. Some do a thorough PDI and some just don't. Some have the attitude that it's not a problem unless the customer complains.

Fans not working and lights blown out? Check all your fuses. This one might have seen a power surge of some kind along the way.

No question the dealer did nothing prior to my taking delivery, which actually met my expectations. This unit had the ignition block recall (R64) when I struck my deal. It took nearly 3 weeks for the parts to be available for the fix, during which time it sat on their lot. I had pointed out the LEDs were inop two weeks prior to my picking it up and yet the tech seemed like he had just found out about them.

I will check all fuses although it did seem to be individual lights. There is power to each of the fans, just no operation. I've already put the HW30C on my Amazon wish list.

bobojay · 03-06-2016, 07:09 PM

GoBird, I wonder if yours was at some point a show vehicle?? What was the difference between the time you purchased it and WGO built it? Not the chassis build date, the WGO build date...

Gobird@comcast.net · 03-06-2016, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobojay

GoBird, I wonder if yours was at some point a show vehicle?? What was the difference between the time you purchased it and WGO built it? Not the chassis build date, the WGO build date...

It could have been I suppose as the WGO build date is 6/15. There was only 1500 miles on it, and it was driven to Michigan from their dealership in N. Canton, OH.

bobojay · 03-06-2016, 10:49 PM

With all those issues, I would just about bet on it. Also *** poor dealership prep....

Good luck..

mumkin · 03-06-2016, 11:00 PM

I can't understand why people feel that it is the dealer's fault that this stuff wasn't fixed. IMHO, the rig shouldn't have left the factory with this many issues. When I picked up my Leisure Travel rig in 2011, the only issue was that it had the wrong curtain fabric. Luckily I lived not far from the factory and drove up there a couple weeks later and they installed the correct ones... and added a radio switch for a problem that had been discovered on the rigs that came out on my factory run. (good old Eclipse...) My dealer told me that pretty much all they had to do with LTVs was to detail them and fill the tanks.

Now... my Roadtrek? More like the Winnies. Hope Hymer fixes this problem...

wincrasher · 03-07-2016, 04:16 AM

There are VERY few stories of any with problems or in disarray at delivery. It's kind of amazing considering the price differential between these two brands. You'd think customer's expectations would be alot less considering how much less money they are spending, yet critics seem to want to put them on par. I don't see how anyone could put a Travato and a Zion side by side and think the Zion is worth $15,000-$20,000 more money based on the quality on display.

Most of the items I've seen posted on WGO are either related to the Promaster platform (like the recalls) or are broken screen doors and other damages from people traipsing thru them at shows or in the dealer showroom. There have been a few with DOA refrigerators.

I've had 3 now with no issues. But my dealer went thru them prior to delivering it to me. He addressed all the cosmetic things that a picky person would expect like cabinet door fit-ups and properly sinked screw heads. Every dealer should go thru each unit thoroughly at a minimum is to verify that everything works - including the light bulbs.

It sounds to me that the unit in original post was plugged in to some bad power - either in the dealer's shop or at an RV show. That is really the only way you are going to have several different types of 12v items fail. Either that or a bad converter - that could do it to if it's outputting over-voltage. The rooftop fans have their own fuses on the housing - look for a black dial looking thing - there is a fuse in there that is probably popped.

Gobird - 1500 miles is a lot considering you are closer to Iowa than I am. My van had 1200 miles on it to South Carolina.

Gobird@comcast.net · 03-07-2016, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wincrasher

It sounds to me that the unit in original post was plugged in to some bad power - either in the dealer's shop or at an RV show. That is really the only way you are going to have several different types of 12v items fail. Either that or a bad converter - that could do it to if it's outputting over-voltage. The rooftop fans have their own fuses on the housing - look for a black dial looking thing - there is a fuse in there that is probably popped.

Gobird - 1500 miles is a lot considering you are closer to Iowa than I am. My van had 1200 miles on it to South Carolina.

hehe, I have come from the retail car and truck business, and to me, 1500 miles on a 'new' vehicle is not much. If this rig had 0 miles at start in Forest City (unlikely), then drove straight to N. Canton, OH, then straight to SE Michigan, then it would still have over 1000 miles. I will agree that it is plausible that the additional miles were added traveling to shows. Could also be that many miles on test drives or the dealers kid on weekends. This was the only Travato that this generally large RV dealer group had during the first month of this year and end of last year. I know it was not the Travato that was at the Detroit show last fall nor this Feb. Cabinet door mis-alignment is not something that would happen at a show.

At least in the retail car biz, the dealer PDI is designed to find the problems that slip out of the factory, and those that have occurred since production, verify fluid levels and the correct operation of everything. The factory generally does not pay enough for a dealer to do a really proper PDI. Quality levels vary in both factory and dealership, and many dealerships provide customer service directly proportional to the gross profit of the deal, which is why my initial expectations were fairly low.

Electrical failures may well have been a power surge as the PC board in the maxfan is fried, and the LED lights all have electronics. I will add that most of the lights worked when I first tried them, but upon second or third attempts, they would no longer work (coach batt only). I have never seen either fan work, but I see a slight movement of the motor/fan in the bath vent when power is applied. I will continue to look at fuses today, but have yet to find a blown one. The surge suppressor will be one of my first adds.
Thanks for the tips!

Scottbaldassari · 03-07-2016, 12:50 PM

I just gotta chime in here. Bought a Travato G just a little more than a month ago, it has seen non stop use with 2 to 4 people, been to Florida and back and romped all over dirt roads in the Ozarks and Tenn/GA area (several of which are definitely NOT considered "RV friendly"). I keep reading about shake downs and Punchlists etc... My Trouble list?

...nada.

Well, OK... One screw backed loose out of the fire extinguisher bracket, and I noticed there is a screw missing from one of the mudflaps...

Can't speak for anyone else, or any other brand, but so far, I am a truly "happy camper"..

eric1514 · 03-07-2016, 01:20 PM

My g was OK for the first few months. One screw in the head liner popped out and I think the frig door is poorly mounted. Then, a few months ago it developed a short that took out the interior lights and the rear radio. It was also intermittent and was not a problem when I took it to the dealer the first time.

When it happened again, in the driveway, I drove back to the dealer ASAP and left it. They found some pinched wiring behind the MW, repaired it and all is well at no charge to me. I would also like to say that this was not the dealer I bought the coach from nor are they a Travato dealer. They are a Winnebago dealer, but they sell Roadtrek. They are the best.

Other than that, which was a big deal, I'm OK with the quality understanding I bought the least expensive B on the market.

swo · 03-08-2016, 12:22 AM

Owners- I've narrowed down my search and compromises have been reconciled with cost (against leftover 2016 RT Zion) -so a newer 2016 59G it is. The money I save will put a new roof on my house or new carpet throughout the home.

Since I will be ordering it vice buying off the lot, I get to chose the options.
I'll be at the dealer this coming Saturday to start the process.
I'm guessing an 8 week wait once ordered.

Color Granite (not sure if I want painted wheel trim or the matte plastic- but leaning towards unpainted)
Graphics deleted
Solar Panel 100 watt (can they add another 100 at the factory?)
Bike rack (but not kayak rack)
Upgraded Roof Vent fan
Rear and side screen package

Website doesn't show anything else available but I'm sure things like front floor mats, upgraded window shades and other accessories may be avail.
There's stuff I'll need that probably don't come with any RV like leveling blocks, electrical hook up cable, and potable water hose. Probably could get these at Walmart unless the dealer throws those in.

I've seen all the posts on after purchase improvements like paper towel holder, hooks, cookware and gadgets. These will all be worked in time. For now just looking at stuff that can be ordered from Winnebago.

I think it was the R/T site where I saw electronic stability control as an option. I'd consider getting it based on a test drive on I-95 with the light loaded 59G. I don't see it as an option on the Winnebago site so maybe R/T ordered some that way from the factory.

I'd like to swap the microwave for a convection /MW combo (like in the 59K) but i guess there's a good reason why they don't offer it (heat/venting or space -maybe both).

Any suggestion from the crew on options and accessories ?

wincrasher · 03-08-2016, 12:27 AM

I think if you get the granite, you'd probably be OK with the unpainted fenders. The colors blend well together.

Check out my blog if you want to see some pics of the accessories I got for my G's - many I still use in my K.

You are right on the convection microwave. There is simply not enough room for one in the G, as they are a good bit larger than a standard microwave, plus they need empty space around the unit.

All the Promasters WGO orders for Travatos have ESC.

Scottbaldassari · 03-08-2016, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swo

Color Granite (not sure if I want painted wheel trim or the matte plastic- but leaning towards unpainted)
Graphics deleted
Solar Panel 100 watt (can they add another 100 at the factory?)
Bike rack (but not kayak rack)
Upgraded Roof Vent fan
Rear and side screen package
...
Website doesn't show anything else available but I'm sure things like front floor mats, upgraded window shades and other accessories may be avail.
There's stuff I'll need that probably don't come with any RV like leveling blocks, electrical hook up cable, and potable water hose. Probably could get these at Walmart unless the dealer throws those in.
...
Any suggestion from the crew on options and accessories ?

If I had to do it over, I would have got the "plastic" fenders. The paint work is a bit lacking on mine on the back panels.. but then again, plastic may fade over time... So... that one is still being argued... I understand you can get the second solar panel installed at the factory (and order the THIRD remote panel if you think you need it). I personally am doing pretty good so far with just the one panel, may add one later. Definitely the upgraded fan. Your options sound smart; I've heard the roof rack is pretty tough to use because of the height of the van (and that makes sense). Mine came with custom front floor carpet, electric cord, and ALL window coverings. I have occasional need for 4 bikes so I am getting (a cheaper) 4 bike swing away rack (but I would have got the door mounted bike rack from WGO if I only needed two). The sliding screen door is great, not sure I'll ever use the rear screen, but I think they come together.. My dealer gave me $100.00 voucher to use in their store which covered hoses, electrical adapter, blocks, etc..
EXTRAS: I've read you can order steps for drivers and passenger side doors. If your short, or not very agile, that might be handy. DW and I are good without them, but I probably would order if I was ordering again.

In short, it sounds like you got it covered! Good luck, hope to see you on the road, We really LOVE our Travato.

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