2014 Winnebago Travato

[stanw909]

Good point Rok and Markopolo. Apples to apples.

[gerrym51]

it has net 4.8 gallon propane tank. not very large. propane refrigerator but gas engine for generator

how does the front flex bed work.

[markopolo]

I haven't seen anything show how to set up the front bed. It would be interesting to see it in place.

[booster]

We have been sitting around BSing about what we like and don't in the Travato floorplan, in relation to how we travel. That is only two people, prefer permanent bed, maximize storage, big bath not needed, shower in van only occasionally.

We decided to play paperdolls, and did some cut and paste on the layout Marco put on here.



Kitchen a little further forward, toilet next to it facing the door, and the shower in the rear. It would be cool to make a shower with a flip up floor, drain underneath, so that huge area could be accessed from the rear doors. You could get really big stuff in there compared to a "normal" B. We have never seen the need to have two sinks in a van.

Bed made wider to full size width, or could be left narrow for more rear storage area.

Passenger side bench seat could be a storage cabinet with a table top for the person in the passenger seat, but would be narrower to clear the moved kitchen. The other bench seat could change into more storage area. Again we travel as only 2, which is how our Roadtrek is also setup.

Sure wish we had the money to go with our dreams and imaginations!

[markopolo]

That's fun. One sink is fine for me too. Now you have me thinking about it. Taking your plan with the 54" bed how about putting the fridge where the toilet is and the whole area toward the rear from the side of the fridge would become a huge wardrobe. You'd have to kneel on bed for wardrobe access. New wet bath would occupy the space where the current fridge and wardrobe is.

I can see why Winnebago went with a non typical layout. You just want to be able to take advantage of the extra few inches of van width. I think the ProMaster is 3 inches wider than the Sprinter.

[stanw909]

You can build your own class b at Sportsmobile. There are plan grids for every chassis in pdf form with a little cut out ruler built in. Lots of fun. Go to the DIY pages and make your dream class b.

[Davydd]

Here is an RVs in England YouTube Video That compares 15 different RVs similar to the Ram Promaster van. You can decide if the Winnebago Travato is a good design effort compared to so many other solutions shown here.

[youtube:2zarkq65]T-h8ruMKBog[/youtube:2zarkq65]

I noted all 15 in order and then Googled their websites for more detailed information.

1. Autocruise Rhythm
http://www.swiftgroup.co.uk/motorhomes/ ... ns/layouts

2. Murvi Morello
http://www.murvi.co.uk/products/the-morello/

3. Pilote Aventura F600 DGA
http://www.pilote.fr/en/index.php?page=gamme&id_gamme=1

4. Horizons Ikon
http://www.horizonsleisurevehicles.co.u ... _ikon.html

5. Tribute 669
http://www.tributemotorhomes.co.uk/tribute-669

6. Rapido V53
http://www.rapido.fr/sites/gbr/en/prod. ... serie=vans

7. Globecart Globescout RD Style
http://www.globecarmotorhomes.co/the-ra ... style.html

8. Wildax Aurora
http://www.wildaxmotorhomes.com/wildax-aurora

9. Devon Aztec
http://devonconversions.co.uk/motorhome/fiat-aztec/

10. Auto-Sleeper Kemerton
http://www.auto-sleepers.co.uk/vans/peu ... t-kemerton

11. Vantage Sol
http://www.vantagemotorhomes.co.uk/sol- ... e-info.php

12. Auto-Sleeper Windrush
http://www.auto-sleepers.co.uk/vans/peu ... t-windrush

13. Shire Phoenix 2ML
http://www.shiremotorhomes.co.uk/motorh ... ix2ml.html

14. Autocruise Accent
http://www.swiftgroup.co.uk/motorhomes/ ... ns/layouts

15. Adria Twin GT
http://www.adriagt.co.uk/

[markopolo]

So many choices.
An actual oven in a Class B.
Some priced at around $54,000 (at current exchange rate)

This type of RV must be very popular in Europe give the low prices and so many to choose from.

[Davydd]

That's just one model type sold in England. If you go to some of those websites you'll many more models of all sizes and other manufacturers like Volkswagen and Mercedes Benz.

After traveling in England I don't know how anyone would want anything larger than a B size van.

[stanw909]

I still think the Trovatto measures up pretty good with the European examples. We haven't even seen the production models (dealer show model only )or a good video yet. I would also imagine there will be more floorplans to come.

[markopolo]

For a comparison Fiat Ducato / Ram Promaster floor plan to the Winnebago Travato just head across the border to Canada. I took a bunch of photos last year when I saw the Westfalia Columbus at New West RV in Quebec last summer: http://www.classbforum.com/phpBB2/vi...php?f=9&t=2243

I like the clean automotive look:



And the floor plans appeal to me more now than when I first saw it:



Bikes anyone?


Westfalia Canada link: http://www.westfalia-canada.com/EN/
New West link: http://new-west.com/
-------------------------------------------
Winnebago Travato quick links:
Preliminary Specifications
Main Photos, Photos 2, Photos 3, Photos 4
Videos
Travato Floor Plan

[Davydd]

If I had to rank the Winnebago Travatto with those 15 European examples I would seriously have to say they might rank 16th. I'm sorry to say they developed an atrocious design with a 48" wide odd shaped bed and a bathroom you would have to trip over and squeeze by a wheel well. Give them kudos for effort if you must, but with 15 examples to review and copy at their disposal, I think they blew it. If they sell any it will be on price and ignorance alone. Am I being too harsh? Well, I would rather say it before they actually start delivering them.

[mlts22]

I read a note that Hymer, one of the biggest B/C upfitters in Europe is dipping its toes in the US water. It probably will be at least a year or two before they start making models because they are not used to generators and A/Cs (which are musts on US motorhomes.) They also have a lot of experience with making the most of a small vehicle.

The main reason I give Winnebago a tip of the hat is that there is no other US "B" maker is bothering with what essentially is the replacement Chevy chassis, so WGO is breaking new ground. Most "B" makers are focusing on the high end and models pushing over $160,000. This makes a lot of profit, but it does leave an empty niche for someone like Winnebago to come in with a decent (not stripped down like the PW Basis or RT Ranger) model. Right now, their floorplans are relatively crude compared to the European cousins, but I am sure that just like they did with the ERA, it will be a model year or two before they start having mass-production experience upfitting the Ducato/ProMaster, get it together and start to make alternative layouts.

I can see that Winnebago did a lot of compromises in this floor plan just for the US market. The refrigerator is larger because in the US, people go a lot longer between grocery store shops than they do in Europe. They are working on tuning fiberglass molds for the Ducato's bathroom (and even though there is a Winnebago brand in Australia that upfits Ducatos, that is a completely different company than WGO in the US.) The van platform has a completely new powertrain than the European cousins, so that has to be engineered around. CCC is an issue because they went with a single rear wheel version. Then there are things not obvious, but take some engineering. A generator has to be properly placed with gas/12VDC/120VAC lines routed to it safely. A rooftop A/C also needs to be put in with its electrical requirements.

Comparing apples to apples, I would also place Winnebago's floorplan at the lower end when comparing their offering to the mature European upfits. However, the with the US being a completely different market, what WGO offers is better than what others are offering (i.e. nothing), and nobody else will be making fully usable (not stripped down) Bs at that price range.

[markopolo]

Travato info is now on Winnebago's website:

http://winnebagotouring.com/products/2014/travato/

[Davydd]

I looked at the floor plan again and decided it was good for one single person. Perhaps a divorced dad who lived in his van down by the river and took his three children out for dinner on Sunday. Simply put, that design makes no sense to me especially after seeing 15 other European designs based on that van that were all better. Are Winnebago designers that bad?

[mlts22]

Originally Posted by Davydd

I looked at the floor plan again and decided it was good for one single person. Perhaps a divorced dad who lived in his van down by the river and took his three children out for dinner on Sunday. Simply put, that design makes no sense to me especially after seeing 15 other European designs based on that van that were all better. Are Winnebago designers that bad?

What WGO needs to do is partner with Hymer, Globecar, Vanguard, or one of the many type B RV makers in Europe. In return for a percentage of every sale, the "B" maker would provide their "secret sauce" of CAD diagrams and schematics, so WGO can use their blueprints to upfit vans here without having to import anything.

I've been looking at some of the Ducato upfits in Europe, and there are a few that use the Roadtrek-like aisle shower, but do it in a fairly elegant manner, and for 120VAC power, there is a pop-up pedestal that one can plug kitchen appliances in, then when done, push it down so it is flush with the counter. At the minimum, use the combined sink/stove from SMEV/Dometic to save counter space.

Another thing is to get appliance brands like Truma to sell over on this side of the pond. Chuck the 4 gallon water heater, and get a Truma Combi 4e or 6e which has four warm air ducts coming out, automatically dumps all water in the tank down a drain when the temperature of the tank gets to 37 degrees (not the outside temperature but the temp of the tank water, so if in storage without power, it does this by itself and keeps the valve open until things reach 45 degrees or warmer), works on propane and electricity, and can have just a specific heating element (0.4 amps with 240VAC or 96 watts) to keep the water above freezing and no more to save on gas and electricity when the RV is not being used.

Of course, it is a shame that the diesel Promaster is being ignored, although it is understandable, as it would eat into their ERA sales.

Other than the divorced father with the van down by the river, the one of the other person types it might support would be someone like me... a single person who would use the vehicle as a secondary driver for weekend touring, road trips, and short term getaways. Plus, it can also be used for hauling some cargo. Flip up the bed, in can go a Christmas tree, 2x4s, a bicycle, small appliances, and if I needed to haul a residential fridge, attach a trailer. However, the rear bed is at best marginal for two people.

I can see a workable floor plan being something like the Roadtrek SS Agile's layout: Have the two seats up front with a fold out table, the bathroom on one side with a folding sink and a wardrobe closet, the kitchen with a under-counter refrigerator on the other side, and a couch that makes into two pseudo-twins or a queen/king bed. Yes, one gives up the dinette, but gains more bed space and also has another place to seat people.

[markopolo]

A single traveler could even convert the rear bed to 27" or 30" and have an aisle along it.
Bunk beds in the rear would be another option.

I'd like to see one to know the bathroom size etc.

[Davydd]

Winnebago doesn't have to partner with anyone in Europe. The just need to hire better designers. Sorry, that plan layout is atrocious. I don't know what they were thinking with a narrow odd shaped bed and inefficient bathroom with a wheel well tripper. Not a single European designer was that dumb.

On another note, check out the re-introduced 19'-6" Pleasure-Way Ascent based on the short Sprinter. That's 1'-5" shorter than the Promaster.

http://www.pleasureway.com/ascent/

Pleasure-way knows what they are doing in building a quality B with the right balance. Pleasure-way, though, is not very flexible or adventurous as some of the other converters in innovation. They stick to the tried and true.

[stanw909]

I think that this can't be looked at through the prizm of a full time couple rving. It is a hybrid daily use vehicle for families with at most 2 kids. I would go for the Roadtrek popular with the four seats up front that can sleep youngsters before choosing this model but this sure has a better price. Winnebago should copy the Roadtrek design and perhaps the will.

[Davydd]

We can rationalize at how it would be used under any scenario, but that still doesn't excuse its poor functional design.