2014 Promaster chassis demo video - 21 mins long

[Mike]

Apologies if this has already been posted elsewhere. It's a review and demo of the Promaster chassis in great detail. Please feel free to move it to another category. I wanted it to be obvious and didn't add it to one of the existing threads. There's a cockpit/cab camera test drive included. Enjoy.

http://article.wn.com/view/2013/02/08/D ... ke/#/video

[youtube:2hn82kct]l6TSUeyowRw[/youtube:2hn82kct]

[bobojay]

Good video for anyone interested in any ProMaster usage. There's one also that Alex put out early in 2013 where he drives a Ducato with the 3.0 diesel and automated manual trans..

[youtube:d6qff57w]OYSR-W-G45I[/youtube:d6qff57w]

[Mike]

The fuel economy numbers on the 3.0L diesel are pretty impressive, as tested.
The other critical difference between it, and the 3.6 gasser (and I keep coming back to it), is the torque. The diesel is rated at around 295lb/ft at a quiet 1400 rpms, and the gasser is rated at around 260 lb/ft at a tie rod snapping 4,000 rpms.
I also thought the Ford Transit was going to be front wheel drive, too, but apparently not?

[mlts22]

The Transit is definitely RWD.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Mike

The fuel economy numbers on the 3.0L diesel are pretty impressive, as tested.
The other critical difference between it, and the 3.6 gasser (and I keep coming back to it), is the torque. The diesel is rated at around 295lb/ft at a quiet 1400 rpms, and the gasser is rated at around 260 lb/ft at a tie rod snapping 4,000 rpms.
I also thought the Ford Transit was going to be front wheel drive, too, but apparently not?

I have mentioned it before, but you can't just compare torque numbers by themselves. Everyone says torque is what moves the vehicle because it is force, which is true, but it does not keep it moving. That is what horsepower does, and there is fixed relationship between them. HP = torque X rpm divided by 5252.

Since torque is force, it can also be multiplied by gearing. If you assume the same traveling speed at torque peak, the gasser is going to geared down by 4000/1600= 2.5 times compared to the diesel. That means that the 260 lb/ft of torque turns into the equivalent of 260X2.5= 650 lb/ft with the van at the same speed.

At torque peak, the diesel is making 295 X1400 /5252 = 78.6 hp

At torque peak, the gasser is making 260 X 4000 / 5252 = 198 hp.

The gasser makes 2.5 times the hp, so it can overcome 2.5 times the resistance of moving the van, which can translate to a much faster speed going up hill, or accelerating.

I am not saying either is a better or worse choice for the van, just that you shouldn't base the decision on only part of the whole picture when it comes to real world engine performance. The very low hp of the diesel at torque peak (not enough to get you up any hill or maybe even highway speeds) would indicated that they spin it way above that in the real world (remember the Sprinters at 2200 rpm at 60mph information). That would negate much of the low rpm, low noise, benefit of the diesel. It is very possible that the gasser and diesel would be going down the highway at very similar rpms.

Based on the numbers, I would think neither of the engines would give very good performance in a heavy van.

[Mike]

I just want to make sure that whatever I might buy in the future can climb I-17 grades between Flagstaff and Phoenix, or the approach to the Glenwood Canyon past Denver along I-70, and any other steep grade I might encounter in my travels. EDIT: All with great fuel economy, and considering the average prices of the 2 fuel types, initial cost of the 2 engine options, and their respective reliability and longevity. ENDEDIT.
I would agree that both options in the Promaster don't appear to be terribly good, even with my very rudimentary knowledge of the engineering and performance of the two options, based on the manufacturer's estimated numbers.

[booster]

I think any of them will make it up normal highway grades, even steep ones. The question is how fast they will go. If it had to run in low gear and couldn't get more than 10mph, it may be a problem for many folks. As I said, the torque multiplies with gears, and they all have gears, so you will be able to get it to move. It is just a reduction of speed that comes with the lower gears that can be an issue. As they say "you can move a train with a washing machine motor, if you have enough gears".

[Mike]

I'd like to get the best performance in an overall package, as I added to my previous post, and considering the overall picture when choosing gas or diesel in any particular chassis option.

[Davydd]

It has been my experience that in high altitude grades of the Rocky Mountains it is the turbo diesel aspect that makes the difference. The Sprinter B V6 is not deterred anywhere in the Rocky Mountains and I have been across most of the passes. The gassers, no matter what the hp, seem to struggle at high altitude.

The turbo gas Subaru Outback was a dream to drive in the Rockies as well. That is why they are so popular in Colorado.