2007 RT 210 Chevy squirley and rough

[leva56]

Originally Posted by booster

If you are trying to prevent wandering and understeer, you don't really want to increase the front bar size. You would add or increase size of rear bar. Adding to the front bar could actually make it worse.


What are your axe weights and RV model?

Its a 2002 Pleasureway Exel. Front axle 3900# rear 6084#. I don't have a rear bar, and don't believe I can install one because of the water tank there.

[peteco]

Originally Posted by booster

It may be as simple as what tires they were putting on at the time they wrote the spec. Marketing might see the S as a selling point, but who want to drive the van over 100 anyway, if the governor would even let you. Most heavier duty tires are R, I think, except for a few brands and maybe more brands could be if they wanted to rate them there but do an R as a CYA to prevent bad things like somebody actually driving a van that fast.



I really don't know if the speed rating is mostly set by temperature gain or things like centrifugal force, but at least for me I haven't seen any need to worry about it. Our Michelin MS2s, which we just replaced with Agilis, didn't run hot at all once we changed the rear axle which was contributing a lot to the heat in the tires it appears.

The R rated MS tires handled and rode much better than the OEM Bridgstones at S, though.

Aren't your present tires a 265 width with higher load capacity than the OEM 245 width? That would probably outweigh the effect of sidewall stiffness.

What got me thinking about the handling is that higher speed rated tires are called for in high performance cars. I think it is both a speed, and hence tire temp issue, as well as a handling in turns issue, with stiffer sidewalls handling better for the performance cars. On heavy vehicles the primary issue would be handling, not speed, when the tires experience a sideload.

I don't think GM viewed it as a selling point, as I have never heard them tout that. It could be as simple as what you say: way back whenever they wrote the spec someone decided S-rating and they have stuck with it. Would be nice to talk to a GM suspension/steering engineer to see what the story is, assuming someone there even knows.

I wonder if anyone has ever tried to see what max speed they can get to on their Roadtrek

[peteco]

I really would like to have a conversation on the side with a knowledgeable (and open to discussion) GM suspension/steering engineer: why have they kept this same poorly engineered steering system for so many years without : 1. fixing it, 2. sidestepping liability issues.

Looks like there was a lawsuit:

https://www.classaction.org/escalade...ating-lawsuits

And where is the NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) on this problem that has been around for almost 20 years on their vans and trucks too???

[booster]

Originally Posted by peteco

Aren't your present tires a 265 width with higher load capacity than the OEM 245 width? That would probably outweigh the effect of sidewall stiffness.

What got me thinking about the handling is that higher speed rated tires are called for in high performance cars. I think it is both a speed, and hence tire temp issue, as well as a handling in turns issue, with stiffer sidewalls handling better for the performance cars. On heavy vehicles the primary issue would be handling, not speed, when the tires experience a sideload.

I don't think GM viewed it as a selling point, as I have never heard them tout that. It could be as simple as what you say: way back whenever they wrote the spec someone decided S-rating and they have stuck with it. Would be nice to talk to a GM suspension/steering engineer to see what the story is, assuming someone there even knows.

I wonder if anyone has ever tried to see what max speed they can get to on their Roadtrek

I will try to look at the program from the computer to see where the limiter is set, if there is one.

[booster]

Originally Posted by leva56

Its a 2002 Pleasureway Exel. Front axle 3900# rear 6084#. I don't have a rear bar, and don't believe I can install one because of the water tank there.

I am finding references to a Roadmaster 1139-178 1.5" rear bar for class B Fords and some saying that is what was put on later year (2010?) Excels along with track adjusting wheel spacers. The 2010 specs don't list the sway bar as such, but do claim an "RSS" stability control and that is what Roadmaster calls their swaybars so pretty likely it is the one.


You may want to call Roadmaster and/or Pleasure-way and ask both directly if that is the Excel rear bar.


The swaybar and spacers would probably go a long ways to improving your handling.


This from a good Sam forum:

The Rear Anti-Sway Bar from Roadmaster (#1139-17 is 1 1/2" diameter and therefore clearly designed for a loaded van like the Excel. I had several emails with Phil at PW while I was going through the same process to improve handling. He indicated that this kit was specially designed for the Excel and tested by PW before adding it as standard equipment. I therefore waited until it was available to add it to my unit. As fas as I can tell, it does the job really well and my DW does not mind driving now.

[booster]

Our 2007 Chevy 190 with 6.0 has the speed limiter set at 90mph, which I think is reasonable. We have been at 85+ a couple of times and felt safe, but our van has a lot of improvements on it.

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by peteco

I really would like to have a conversation on the side with a knowledgeable (and open to discussion) GM suspension/steering engineer: why have they kept this same poorly engineered steering system for so many years without : 1. fixing it, 2. sidestepping liability issues.

Looks like there was a lawsuit:

https://www.classaction.org/escalade...ating-lawsuits

And where is the NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration) on this problem that has been around for almost 20 years on their vans and trucks too???

Reading this thread makes me feel good in a "I'm glad I don't have these problems" sort of way. My 3-1/2 years and 30K miles with my Chevy Express has been nearly trouble-free and my admiration for the chassis and my confidence it will get me there and back has only grown.

Lord knows I've had nearly every problem immaginable with the Airstream coach portion (only the awning, stove top, propane tank, macerating toilet, and furnace have been trouble-free) but not with the Chevy Express chassis. Knock on wood.

[booster]

Originally Posted by peteco

Aren't your present tires a 265 width with higher load capacity than the OEM 245 width? That would probably outweigh the effect of sidewall stiffness.

What got me thinking about the handling is that higher speed rated tires are called for in high performance cars. I think it is both a speed, and hence tire temp issue, as well as a handling in turns issue, with stiffer sidewalls handling better for the performance cars. On heavy vehicles the primary issue would be handling, not speed, when the tires experience a sideload.

I don't think GM viewed it as a selling point, as I have never heard them tout that. It could be as simple as what you say: way back whenever they wrote the spec someone decided S-rating and they have stuck with it. Would be nice to talk to a GM suspension/steering engineer to see what the story is, assuming someone there even knows.

I wonder if anyone has ever tried to see what max speed they can get to on their Roadtrek

Yes, we do have 265s on the van now in Agilis. The extra capacity is a nice security blanket and gets us to the 20% cushion that is about where I like to be. Would not go back to 245s even if easier if we have a flat as no way to increase spare side and still use the nice tire cover.



The Agilis are said to be more robust with stronger sidewalls, so I will be very interested in watching the temps compared to the MS2s, and of course also the ride quality. We just got a new Tireminder TPMS as the TST died as I was attempting to reprogam it to get the sensors in the right spots. Tireminder programmed in about two minutes so much more user friendly and is said to have a 10 hour battery so doesn't need to be plugged in, so easy to put on the dash as wanted. The TST would barely run an hour on batteries. We have external sensors, so we check temp rise by looking at the pressure increase as the externals aren't very close to reality.



We got the Buick hood out of van today so now it can go into daily service if needed. Other than that, is about ready to go anywhere with oil and grease done and a new battery going in tomorrow. (Stay away from Interstate, they appear to now be not very good as shown by this battery death way early)

[It's a beast]

Originally Posted by It's a beast

Excellent information! I will definitely bring up the GM specs when I stop by Discount Tires. Thank you
so much everyone... More to come!

Apparently, Discount Tire is a different company in California then in Phoenix ( where the tires were purchased). I went to 2 independent tire shops today, one who deals, with big trucks all day long, and they both said my tires are appropriate for the vehicle. I asked about the speed rating, and they both said there is minimal difference between R and S for my purpose. I'm getting ready to drive from California to So Carolina next week, and will just take my time. I feel like I've done my due diligence and it is what it is at this point. When I return, I'll look into a steering damper and a rear sway bar. Really appreciate the input and I'll let you know how The Beast does cross country!

[It's a beast]

I know my max speed is 65! Lol

[peteco]

Be sure to use engine braking when in the mountains. Hot brakes on the Chevy Roadtreks can cause significant front end wobble or vibration.

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by It's a beast

Apparently, Discount Tire is a different company in California then in Phoenix ( where the tires were purchased). I went to 2 independent tire shops today, one who deals, with big trucks all day long, and they both said my tires are appropriate for the vehicle. I asked about the speed rating, and they both said there is minimal difference between R and S for my purpose. I'm getting ready to drive from California to So Carolina next week, and will just take my time. I feel like I've done my due diligence and it is what it is at this point. When I return, I'll look into a steering damper and a rear sway bar. Really appreciate the input and I'll let you know how The Beast does cross country!

You still might want to have tires rotated as peteco suggested in post #46. This will reveal any handling problems that might be caused by tires since if this were the case, you should notice a difference. It is very rare for new tires to be defective in such a way, but it happens.

Such a rotation might have been done when you had the alignment and balance done. But look at your service order. If not specically mentioned, then they may have put them back on in the same positions.

[Bud]

Originally Posted by booster

Our 2007 Chevy 190 with 6.0 has the speed limiter set at 90mph, which I think is reasonable. We have been at 85+ a couple of times and felt safe, but our van has a lot of improvements on it.

My 05/04 190P is 106 or 108 mph, don't recall as it was 13 years ago. But I noticed with my last tire purchase (4) that they were rated at 106 or 108 can't recall that either. I assumed (guessed) that was not a coincidence with GM.

I once only cruised along at 85-90 mph, most everyone was. So quiet too, like driving about 55 mph with a fuel burn I estimated at maybe 24-25 miles per gallons - super, perfect tail wind. Later I learned that Sprinters could not do that, but maybe I'm not recalling that right, 78 mph?

Way back, Ford (Robert Mcnamara) tried to market, sell safety but it not go well. Today, Wow it is a different world concerning vehicles!

[Jon in AZ]

Originally Posted by It's a beast

Apparently, Discount Tire is a different company in California then in Phoenix ( where the tires were purchased)…

AZ-based Discount Tire goes by America’s Tire in some markets, perhaps because there was already another company registered under the Discount name. America’s Tire will service your Discount-purchased tires. Just an FYI. Hope you do not need any tire service on your trip.

Happy travels!

[leva56]

Just ordered a Hillwig 7085 1.5" rear sway bar, going to try it. Then move on from there if needed.

[It's a beast]

Wondering if the steering stabilizer helped at all?

[leva56]

Not as much as I was hoping for. But I did put on a rear stabilizer bar ( 1.5" ) and seems to help a lot.

[It's a beast]

Originally Posted by booster

Personally, I am not a big fan of any of the spring return setups for the steering. If the 2007 is built on a 2007 chassis it likely has the same steering gear in it, which should return very quickly to center. The 2006 was different, I think, but I haven't driven one to know feel.


While you are looking at the Roadmaster site, take a look at the rear swaybars as they are the only ones that will fit a Chevy with a generator unless you move the generator back. Without a genny, you can get a much less expensive one. I think the rear bar is one of the best ways to tame down wind sway and wander.

My 2007 is on a 2006 chassis. Thanks for the info on the rear sway bar - definitely looking into adding one.

[Road Toad]

Originally Posted by booster

Lots of discussions here on Chevy handling, even though they are usually considered among the better handling B's.


The Bilsteins are good, what tires are on it and at what pressures. Most prefer 65psi front and 80 psi rear.


The van is nearly 15 years old so it probably needs a good look over of the steering parts and maybe some replaced. If not regularly greased (all of them) the moving parts will get loose quite quickly.



A good alignment to best settings, if you can find someone capable of doing it which has been difficult lately in many area.


A big rear sway bar will help the handling in the wind a bunch for most vans.


Roughness is tough to say, but many including us in our 07 190P have found that lifting the front with taller, stiffer, springs helps. Airbags in the back can help. Both also help prevent bottoming out damage as the Roadtrek Chevies sit low.


You should be able to get your Chevy to drive very easily and be acceptably smooth, but always remember that this is a truck in all ways, so still will drive like one in many ways.

Booster... Point me to your prefered choice in air bags for rear (C190V-2003)..
Going to try them. tks cliff

[booster]

Originally Posted by Road Toad

Booster... Point me to your prefered choice in air bags for rear (C190V-2003)..
Going to try them. tks cliff

These are the ones that we have and like. Having the bump stop in them means that if you get a leak or damage a bag somehow, the van doesn't go all the way solid on a solid bag stop. I like to have independent fill for each side as you will probably find the driver side will like a bit more pressure than the passenger side.


https://www.airliftcompany.com/shop/88205/