New to RVs and Hopeful Warp Core RoadTrekkers

[WingedRyno]

Originally Posted by booster

If you have money down and a written price and contract, I would think they have to honor it. It is questionable, though whether you should push for that that, as Roadtrek can be disagreeable under the best of circumstances, and probably would be even worse with you if you had an issue.

I agree with BBQ that they probably got scared off as they don't like folks that actually want good product, and accurate information about it. Past history has shown that over and over.

Of course, they also could have found out you were posting here, and that put them off, as they truly don't like many of the people here because they have dared to question Roadtrek's often blatantly false claims, and question their quality.

Dealer contract has language about being subject to price changes by the factory...

[Viperml]

Originally Posted by WingedRyno

Well it turns out that despite the dealer confirming our order with RoadTrek and us putting down the deposit, RoadTrek has now decided the cost of the unit is actually considerably more than agreed. A RoadTrek rep said he had bad information and apologized to the dealer for passing that along. The RoadTrek website is still giving out erroneous "build your own" information, and so we're still in negotiation to see if we're going to purchase. At this point it looks like we'll likely be cancelling our order and going with another RV company but we'll see how the negotiations go.

Why would even waste your time with them anymore?
Until Hymer guts the current man in charge I would not even consider them.
I would recommend you look at a honorable company like PleasureWay.

[eric1514]

I think you dodged a bullet.

[WingedRyno]

Originally Posted by Viperml

Why would even waste your time with them anymore?

They make a nice product. We like the technology they offer. While there are plenty of stories of people having issues as would be somewhat expected, we also see plenty of people who like their product.

We'll see how it goes. We may switch to another RV company and just have it retrofitted with the technology we desire, but we'll give the company a chance and see what they say a little later today.

[BBQ]

.

Hymer is a volume producer.
They are good at making tried-and-true cookie cutter products.

I can see RT will adopt their business model.
They have already expanded their manufacturing facility from ONE building to two buildings, with two more factory buildings under construction that are scheduled to come online by the end of 2017. That's a lot of manufacturing capacity!!!

I predict RT will slowly back away from the high-end products that are rife with unmanageable components. Just ask yourself, how many warp-cores can they sell in a year? Maybe six? seven? It just does not make economic sense to devote so much manpower and resources to support such a small number of customers.


Again, just my wild guess.

[WingedRyno]

Originally Posted by BBQ

.

Hymer is a volume producer.
They are good at making tried-and-true cookie cutter products.

I can see RT will adopt their business model.
They have already expanded their manufacturing facility from ONE building to two buildings, with two more factory buildings under construction that are scheduled to come online by the end of 2017. That's a lot of manufacturing capacity!!!

I predict RT will slowly back away from the high-end products that are rife with unmanageable components. Just ask yourself, how many warp-cores can they sell in a year? Maybe six? seven? It just does not make economic sense to devote so much manpower and resources to support such a small number of customers.


Again, just my wild guess.

I wonder how much more manpower and such it takes to extend two lithium modules to eight lithium modules, or 470W of solar panels to 600W of solar? Warp Core is a little larger but it doesn't seem like a huge jump to me. Perhaps you think they will get rid of lithium and solar altogether?

[GeorgeRa]

As I switched to the B-class 4 year ago I got exposed to, what I think is a new trend, 4-digit Ah Li battery banks. Since then I am struggling to understand the value. A good way to evaluate invention or innovation is by spelling out what specific problem has been solved. So, what has been solved with this huge battery banks. Cooking? is gas stove no longer good enough in the 21st. Century; a few hours AC? without a generator; heating – not; water heating – not really; LED – really; TV – really, PC and phones charging – really, compressor fridge – really; Keurig – OK; so from where this Li 4-digit Ah hunger comes from?

[WingedRyno]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

As I switched to the B-class 4 year ago I got exposed to, what I think is a new trend, 4-digit Ah Li battery banks. Since then I am struggling to understand the value. A good way to evaluate invention or innovation is by spelling out what specific problem has been solved. So, what has been solved with this huge battery banks. Cooking? is gas stove no longer good enough in the 21st. Century; a few hours AC? without a generator; heating – not; water heating – not really; LED – really; TV – really, PC and phones charging – really, compressor fridge – really; Keurig – OK; so from where this Li 4-digit Ah hunger comes from?

For us, we like the idea that driving the RV from Point A to Point B fills up the batteries (it doesn't fill up propane). Also, given conditions, you can stay out longer as solar charges your battery bank (but it won't fill your propane tank).

Lithium and solar provides more flexibility it seems to us. Plus energy produced as a byproduct from driving, or produced from solar, doesn't cost anything unlike propane.

It just provides more flexibility.

[WingedRyno]

Originally Posted by BBQ

I can tell you more,
but it will take you time to absorb.
Because the truth is difficult to digest.

I don't know if we're talking about buying an RV anymore, or now discussing being Caine in Kung Fu.

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by WingedRyno

I don't know if we're talking about buying an RV anymore, or now discussing being Caine in Kung Fu.

Don't get diss'd.

I am signing off.

[WingedRyno]

Originally Posted by BBQ

Don't get diss'd.

I am signing off.

When it comes to RVs and many other things...

[booster]

Originally Posted by WingedRyno

For us, we like the idea that driving the RV from Point A to Point B fills up the batteries (it doesn't fill up propane). Also, given conditions, you can stay out longer as solar charges your battery bank (but it won't fill your propane tank).

Lithium and solar provides more flexibility it seems to us. Plus energy produced as a byproduct from driving, or produced from solar, doesn't cost anything unlike propane.

It just provides more flexibility.

Nearly everyone that has one of the big power units, from both the bank capacity and use, says pretty much the same thing. The amount of solar you can put on a B is not enough to make a significant contribution usage coverage. That puts you back to running the engine to get power back if you are off grid, either driving or idling. Lower usage setups, primarily from running propane or diesel for heat, hot water, and cooking can get the power use down to where the solar can make significant contribution and keep you off grid without any other charging source.

IMO, running AC for more than an hour or two off batteries gets you squarely into the area of having a generator, as running the van all the time just isn't what I consider a good idea, and is quite inefficient.

Also remember when you look at charging for the engine, that the 270 or 280 amp alternator is only going to net you about 165ah per hour while driving, and probably closer to 100ah per hour idling, due to heat cycling, so your recharge times can be much longer than what Roadtrek implies them to be.

The charging off the engine is not free. At full output, the big alternator will use nearly 7hp, which is about the same as an Onan, and consume about the same fuel at approximately 1/2 gallon per hour.

Davydd says his ARV uses 100ah per day with no camping use, and upwards of 300ah per day when camping with essentially no AC use. If idling with only 100ah per hour (davydd's new Delco alternator does better), you could need upwards of 3 hours a day. Run the AC, and you will be running the engine well over 50%, if it will even keep up idling.

I understand that some people want to get rid of the propane, but I prefer it for a lot of things over electric or even diesel. You don't use much propane at all unless you are running a generator off it. I don't think we fill up our tank more than once every couple of years.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by WingedRyno

For us, we like the idea that driving the RV from Point A to Point B fills up the batteries (it doesn't fill up propane). Also, given conditions, you can stay out longer as solar charges your battery bank (but it won't fill your propane tank).

Lithium and solar provides more flexibility it seems to us. Plus energy produced as a byproduct from driving, or produced from solar, doesn't cost anything unlike propane.

It just provides more flexibility.

I have 300W solar and 230 Ah batteries, I see the value at this level. For energy hoges like space and water heating you stll need LPG so once you have why you still need xxxx Ah?

[WingedRyno]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

I have 300W solar and 230 Ah batteries, I see the value at this level. For energy hoges like space and water heating you stll need LPG so once you have why you still need xxxx Ah?

We plan on staying out of freezing temperatures so I'm not sure how much heating we would need, but I was under the impression that 1600AH of lithium with the Alde diesel underfloor heating and water heating would allow us at least a week without hookups. Is that unreasonable do you think?

[markopolo]

Originally Posted by WingedRyno

We plan on staying out of freezing temperatures so I'm not sure how much heating we would need, but I was under the impression that 1600AH of lithium with the Alde diesel underfloor heating and water heating would allow us at least a week without hookups. Is that unreasonable do you think?

Your diesel tank, fresh water and waste tank capacity would determine that, not battery capacity.

[booster]

Originally Posted by WingedRyno

We plan on staying out of freezing temperatures so I'm not sure how much heating we would need, but I was under the impression that 1600AH of lithium with the Alde diesel underfloor heating and water heating would allow us at least a week without hookups. Is that unreasonable do you think?

It all depends on how much power you use per day. If Roadtrek still has the 4-5 amp parasitic load per module, you will lose 100-125ah per day for every module that is on, that is why the say to use one at a time. That is going to eat up 1/2 your capacity right there, and likely more of the usable capacity depending on how much cushion they have on each end of the charge/discharge cycle. If it is 10% total you would lose another 160ah there, 320ah if it is 20%. Chose 200ah and your total down before any loads is going to be nearly 1000ah per week, leaving 600ah for use or a bit under 90ah per day. If the inverter is on all day to run 110v stuff, that will use a third of the 90, frig another third, so it doesn't leave much for actual use. Solar will give something in the 30ah per 100 watts on good days, and in this case would help as you loads have to be much smaller than davydd's to expect to last a week off grid without running the engine.

We have 440ah of battery, a compressor frig, and essentially all our stuff is native 12v except the microwave and hairdryer. Propane heat, cooking on gas grill and cooktop, hot water. The inverter is left off except to run the micro or hairdryer. In very hot weather, with fans running, and the frig using more, moderate micro use, we would be in the 80ah per day of power consumption. If we get good sun our 300watts of solar will keep up with that amount. Lower amounts of sun and it will not.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by WingedRyno

We plan on staying out of freezing temperatures so I'm not sure how much heating we would need, but I was under the impression that 1600AH of lithium with the Alde diesel underfloor heating and water heating would allow us at least a week without hookups. Is that unreasonable do you think?

I think you are getting good help from actual users here, I would suggest to actually make a balance sheet of your electrical loads including parasitic losses, Alde coolant and heat exchanger pumps etc.

I like Alde, great unit for a C-class motorhome, for a B-van it could be a complex overkill. A potential nightmare after warranty expires unless you know a lot about hydronic systems. Majority of RV repair places will have no clue what to do. Espar (Eberspacher) D2 is an ideal combo, fast, quiet, low Ah consumption.

I have diesel powered furnace and water heating, with 230 Ah AGM (in Li equivalency about 125 Ah), well insulated (Thinsulate), 144WB van with all window and can stay in frigid temperatures for about 4 days in no solar harvesting conditions, with good harvesting with my 300W panels I am diesel, water tanks capacities and food limited.

[booster]

George, do you have a compressor frig?

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by booster

George, do you have a compressor frig?

Yes, Indel/Webasto Isotherm 85l/3.1 CF. I added the Smart Controller by Isotherm and noticed significant load reduction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2hAWqFVkUI

[booster]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

Yes, Indel/Webasto Isotherm 85l/3.1 CF. I added the Smart Controller by Isotherm and noticed significant load reduction.

Same frig we have but without the controller. Do you also have the cold plate with it?