New to RVs and Hopeful Warp Core RoadTrekkers

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by WingedRyno

I'm pretty sure Jim Hammil also said that with all the EckoTreks offline, the inverter/converter will not be powered by shore power.

That's correct. If just the battery disconnect switch is "off", the converter will still operate if the inverter is on,(at least on our coach) but if the lithiums are switched off, the converter doesn't operate because the inverter can't power up.

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

i have read several people with voltstart issues. I have read several people without voltstart issues. I have read several people with ecotrek issues-i have read several people without ecotrek issues.

I read the facebook forums a lot-because i'm retired and our medical issues stop us from lot of touring not camping-which is the reason we got the roadtrek in the first place.

Be that as it may -the biggest issue i see is that no matter how much time passes the same issues keep cropping up no matter when they are built by roadtrek.

it seems the same haphazard problems over and over. some have no issues
with ecotrek /voltstart-and some are disasters. beats me why time passing does not cut the issues down

Originally Posted by cruising7388

I can't find any posts reporting Voltstart problems, which is not to say they don't exist, but I would like to see some evidence.

What is an "ecotrek issue"?

Some saw this coming from way back.

[WingedRyno]

Originally Posted by BBQ

Some saw this coming from way back.

One of the reasons I didn't order Voltstart and don't have it.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by WingedRyno

One of the reasons I didn't order Voltstart and don't have it.

Are you on your way home?

[WingedRyno]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

Are you on your way home?

Nope, still at dealership. They got the new Balmar and it's hooked up and showing nice red lights and codes and such. It has one display cycle that shows the lithium battery voltage, and another voltage display that is apparently what the regulator is set to charge the batteries to.

The readout of lithium voltage on one eckotrek showed 12.9 and the "to" value showed 14.0. After about ten minutes of idling the engine, however, the lithium battery voltage dropped to 12.8 so it's not charging.

Working with Nations and Balmar and RT to try to figure this out.

[WingedRyno]

Originally Posted by WingedRyno

Nope, still at dealership. They got the new Balmar and it's hooked up and showing nice red lights and codes and such. It has one display cycle that shows the lithium battery voltage, and another voltage display that is apparently what the regulator is set to charge the batteries to.

The readout of lithium voltage on one eckotrek showed 12.9 and the "to" value showed 14.0. After about ten minutes of idling the engine, however, the lithium battery voltage dropped to 12.8 so it's not charging.

Working with Nations and Balmar and RT to try to figure this out.

We then turned on all batteries and it showed 13.2 (the other one was the weakest) and tried that but no difference.

But after fifteen minutes or so we turned the original one (that was reading 12.9) on and reset it and it now reads 13.1 so the guys are thinking it might be charging actually.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by WingedRyno

Nope, still at dealership. They got the new Balmar and it's hooked up and showing nice red lights and codes and such. It has one display cycle that shows the lithium battery voltage, and another voltage display that is apparently what the regulator is set to charge the batteries to.

The readout of lithium voltage on one eckotrek showed 12.9 and the "to" value showed 14.0. After about ten minutes of idling the engine, however, the lithium battery voltage dropped to 12.8 so it's not charging.

Working with Nations and Balmar and RT to try to figure this out.

good luck and good luck again

[booster]

Originally Posted by WingedRyno

We then turned on all batteries and it showed 13.2 (the other one was the weakest) and tried that but no difference.

But after fifteen minutes or so we turned the original one (that was reading 12.9) on and reset it and it now reads 13.1 so the guys are thinking it might be charging actually.

Don't these guys have a clamp on ammeter, so they can actually tell if it is charging or not? If not, they don't know what they are doing, IMO.

Is the alternator getting hot, it should?

[WingedRyno]

Originally Posted by WingedRyno

Nope, still at dealership. They got the new Balmar and it's hooked up and showing nice red lights and codes and such. It has one display cycle that shows the lithium battery voltage, and another voltage display that is apparently what the regulator is set to charge the batteries to.

The readout of lithium voltage on one eckotrek showed 12.9 and the "to" value showed 14.0. After about ten minutes of idling the engine, however, the lithium battery voltage dropped to 12.8 so it's not charging.

Working with Nations and Balmar and RT to try to figure this out.

Originally Posted by WingedRyno

We then turned on all batteries and it showed 13.2 (the other one was the weakest) and tried that but no difference.

But after fifteen minutes or so we turned the original one (that was reading 12.9) on and reset it and it now reads 13.1 so the guys are thinking it might be charging actually.

For all the Balmar fans, here is video of its display while idling and hooked up to this 1600 amp hour lithium rig.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grxo...ature=youtu.be

[avanti]

[QUOTE=WingedRyno;60742]For all the Balmar fans, here is video of its display while idling and hooked up to this 1600 amp hour lithium rig.

Thanks.

Be careful, though. That video is NOT of the Balmar MC-614. You can tell because the 614 is potted and the shown device is not. The display looks similar, but it may or may not be identical.

[WingedRyno]

[QUOTE=avanti;60744]

Originally Posted by WingedRyno

For all the Balmar fans, here is video of its display while idling and hooked up to this 1600 amp hour lithium rig.

Thanks.

Be careful, though. That video is NOT of the Balmar MC-614. You can tell because the 614 is potted and the shown device is not. The display looks similar, but it may or may not be identical.

The manual/pamphlet they have that apparently came with the unit today in the FedEx says it's a MC-614.

[gerrym51]

[QUOTE=WingedRyno;60745]

Originally Posted by avanti

The manual/pamphlet they have that apparently came with the unit today in the FedEx says it's a MC-614.

I googled it. there appears to be more than one mc-614

some seem to have letters after them.

One is called marine also.

they may be different looking

[avanti]

Hmmm. Perhaps the one in the video IS potted, but the potting is transparent. Mine is not:

IMG_6093.jpg

[GeorgeRa]

It is a scandalous saga, troubleshooting by sparking, no troubleshooting tree, fixing by parts replacement, if this would be my case I would run and run fast.

If there is no troubleshooting guide, at least an electrical schematic could lead any capable person to diagnosis. Lithium batteries are not a bleeding edge technology anymore but it can be made at the bleeding edge level if not design properly for the full product lifecycle from inception, design, manufacturing, maintenance, troubleshooting and disposal.

I don’t know if RT issues are lack of engineering or someone think they have more IP than they truly have. Hopefully this thread will gain some visibility by Hymer and contribute to a complete RT management shakeout from top down but primarily on the top.

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

It is an scandalous saga, troubleshooting by sparking, no troubleshooting tree, fixing by parts replacement, if this would be my case I would run and run fast.

If there is no troubleshooting guide, at least an electrical schematic could lead any capable person to diagnosis. Lithium batteries are not a bleeding edge technology anymore but it can be made at the bleeding edge level if not design properly for the full product lifecycle from inception, design, manufacturing, maintenance, troubleshooting and disposal.

I don’t know if RT issues are lack of engineering or someone think they have more IP than they truly have. Hopefully this thread will gain some visibility by Hymer and contribute to a complete RT management shakeout from top down but primarily on the top.

+1

[B Eventually]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

It is an scandalous saga, troubleshooting by sparking, no troubleshooting tree, fixing by parts replacement, if this would be my case I would run and run fast.

Reading this, my thoughts instantly went to how much trouble (time, money, and inconvenience) they'll have in a few years when it comes time to make repairs to the electrical system.

I still think upgrading a basic B is the most reliable and cost effective way to get the all-electric B experience a lot of us want.

[booster]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

It is an scandalous saga, troubleshooting by sparking, no troubleshooting tree, fixing by parts replacement, if this would be my case I would run and run fast.

If there is no troubleshooting guide, at least an electrical schematic could lead any capable person to diagnosis. Lithium batteries are not a bleeding edge technology anymore but it can be made at the bleeding edge level if not design properly for the full product lifecycle from inception, design, manufacturing, maintenance, troubleshooting and disposal.

I don’t know if RT issues are lack of engineering or someone think they have more IP than they truly have. Hopefully this thread will gain some visibility by Hymer and contribute to a complete RT management shakeout from top down but primarily on the top.

I totally agree, and would add their apparent dismal support and/or training for the dealer techs. How can it be possible that the tech doesn't know how to check if an alternator is sending current to the batteries? A 30 second Google search can teach you that, but this poor guy is trying to troubleshoot problems with a complex system with no documentation, and likely no decent help from Roadtrek.

When many of us complain of the lack of monitoring and diagnostics in the Roadtrek systems, we are often told that "most" folks wouldn't know how, or want, to use them, which may or may not be true. But, having those items in place would severely shorten the problems for the techs that have to fix these things. I would guess essentially every manufacturer of electrical stuff of this complexity, except Roadtrek, has a method to see performance or faults. It seems bizarre that the microwave in a Roadtrek has more diagnostics than the much more complicated power system.

I think Hymer has somehow fallen for the Roadtrek historical pattern of sending out bad stuff, with plans to fix it at the dealer, so it is out of the factory and paid for quickly. 50 years ago the the auto manufacturers did the same thing, but the Japanese quickly showed them it was a very flawed business model.

[BBQ]

Originally Posted by WingedRyno

I wonder how much more manpower and such it takes to extend two lithium modules to eight lithium modules, or 470W of solar panels to 600W of solar? Warp Core is a little larger but it doesn't seem like a huge jump to me. Perhaps you think they will get rid of lithium and solar altogether?

Oh

[avanti]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

If there is no troubleshooting guide, at least an electrical schematic could lead any capable person to diagnosis.

The Balmar manual has a fairly thorough troubleshooting guide. That might have been a good place for them to have started.

mc-614-manual.pdf

[WingedRyno]

Originally Posted by BBQ

Oh

No need for you to drag up an old post and then eat crow simply because it turns out I haven't had any issues at all with Warp Core or solar. It's early, you might turn out to be right in the future.

Unless your position now is that refrigerators and alternators are "new fangled technology" that is untried and untested, of course.