New Here with 1988 VW Westfalia Vanagon CamperGL

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

We had 1977 Westfalia, a yellow one followed by EU delivery of 1985 one. Every few thousand miles valve adjustment became part of life. Sheet metal everywhere, strong valve covers springs, accessibility made skin cuts a part of the job.

It was about 1980, my wife was preparing a meal and I was under the van adjusting valves. I was unaware that my son, about 3-4, was also in the garage. I cut myself so instant swear of “f…k” followed. From the kitchen my wife is asking my son, “what is Dad doing?”, - "Daddy is F…ing the car".

I cannot work on anything car, trailer, house or otherwise without skinned knuckles - & I hear ya on the potty mouth George!

I was working in the kids bedroom on something when the tool slipped & gouged my hand, resulting in a loud "SOB" - which the kids asked my wife what I said, and she told them "Son of a Fish" - fast thinking wife, I must say!

Having an `85 WBX Vanagon Westy - you know that the waterboxer engines no longer required the regular valve adjustments, having switched to self-adjusting valves.

But the 1983.5-86 1.9L WBX engines did have a nasty habit of eating through the aluminum heads due to the anodic reaction between the aluminum heads, magnesium in the case alloy, gasket materials, & the composition of the coolant. In the early WBX years it wasn't uncommon to have a "waterfall" at the head/case gasket at 20-40,000 miles.

VW eventually VW figured out the proper gasket material & coolant mixture composition to prevent that problem, but heads can still develop the anodic caused leaks over 100-150,000 miles. Of course for those who decided to go cheap with bargain generic coolant - their savings were short lived, once the heads failed at 20-40,000 from using the wrong coolant type.

Fortunately my longtime since 1985 VW-Porsche-Audi mechanic trained at V/P/A factories & dealers in Austria/Germany & then here in SoCal warned us when we started looking, and said to not buy anything used before 1987 MY & that he didn't check over first. After a few `87 candidates - one with only 8,000 miles with the plastic seal still on the sink/stove/etc. from an elderly couple whose health issues quashed their travel plans with it - we decided to buy a new on in 1988.

VW finally got it right with the late 1987-92 Vanagon Westfalia CamperGL's (only GL sold in the USA), which were the best of the batch, and the styling was way ahead of the time & predated the Dodge/Plymouth/Chrysler Minivans of similar styling by a decade from when VW developed the design in the early to mid-1970s, & first sold them August 1979 in aircooled form (ABX up to 1983.5).

We still have people come up & ask if ours is new & where they can buy one new, and they've had recent popularity as props/background for TV ads in recent years (along with the Bay Window 1969-78 Bus era Westies).

My 914 ABX 2.0L will still need valve adjustments. And it was a later smog-detuned version of that engine which was used in the 1980-83.5 MY Vanagons & 1976-78 Bay Window Buses - as you were doing with your `77 Westy.

I was surprised that the Vanagon Westfalias have gone up so much in value, and become such as cult car - but then they were relatively low production cars - and far more rare than the other "tin top" (non-poptop) Vanagons - especially for the Synchros, & also for the Single & Doka Cab Vanagon Pickups.

Given that my 1985 BMW 325e E30 Coupe cost 1/4 the maintenance & repairs costs of our 1988 Vanagon Westy - I had expected that the BMer 3 would be more valuable long term, but just the opposite is the case - although E30s are gaining collector favor now too.

In any case, I like that we've lived with & regularly use our "drivable classics" for 46 years now, have raised a family & have toured the USA & BC Canada with them, 2 kids who learned to drive in the later two, and now essentially have the 600,000+ miles between the 3 cars - `73 914-2.0 (172K+), `85 325e (205K+), & `88 Westy (242K+) - similar to the guy back east with the 1 million mile Volvo P1800 of long use over 55+/- years.

Cheers!
Tom
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[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by rockymtnb

Lots of us here with a deep history in VW campers, in our case a green 1977 Westfalia Deluxe. Some of our best trips, and greatest calamities, where in that van. And despite it's seeming affinity for the mechanic's shop it was a marvel of efficient space utilization.

After a variety of newer vans I definitely relate to MsNomer's commentary about the "VW that runs." But nothing since has quite had the Westy's unique character either.

Rocky -

In all fairness - in my 68 year lifelong experience with XC & long trips - no vehicle is without some issues to deal with on the road - new or older, American or Imported - & the chances double when Caravaning with others.

When growing up & traveling as a kid in the 1950s-60's, including a few of the key the ones that I still recall:

When we had a family friend's new for station wagon throw a rod on the way in caravan to Miami from Pittsburgh;

Later we had our brand new 1963 Chevy Greenbriar flat-6/AT van "eat the valves" in "Nowhere" Texas, while on the way moving from Pittsburgh to San Diego - but no other engine problems on our annual July-August trips back to Pittsburgh nor at home in SD after that motor was replaced (I almost bought a 65-68 Corvair for my 1st car, but found none in good condition in my price range, so ended up with a used 1968 Opel Kadett);

And various Auto Trans, Carburetor/Fuel Pump & other misc. problems with the family's later 1967 Chevy C20 327ci V8/AT Camper Special with truck bed/over-cab Camper on it's annual San Diego to Pittsburgh Summer trip 1967-71 (& thereafter with my family back there, I stayed in SoCal being in USC when they moved to Indy in Summer `71).

That continued with all of my 5 cars that I've owned since my first one in Fall 1969 -

#1 `68 Opel Kadett 2dr notchback coupe with 1.1L I-4/4spd (2nd owner 69-71 - blown engine);

> Interesting side note is that I passed on a White Ford Cortina with Green side-stripe with about the same 45K miles as the Opel sitting next to it - & that `67 Ford Cortina Lotus turned out to be a $100,000+ collector car today!

#2 `69 Pontiac Ventura 4dr Hardtop with 400ci V8/AT (3rd owner, Dad was 2nd - `71-76 - needing major engine work at 127K mi);

#3 `73 Porsche 914-2.0 "914S" H-4/5spd (2nd owner `75-present, not running since `85, currently in resto);

#4 `85 BMW 325e 2dr Coupe I-6/5spd (new `85-present & "classic DD");

#5 `88 VW Westy H-4 WBX/AT (new `88-present & "classic DD/Camper");

#6 TBD as combo DD & Tow Vehicle - leaning toward a 2015-18 or 2019-21> Porsche Cayenne eHybrid, in order to tow our restored vintage 1960 Avion T20 trailer (265 HW & 2680 lbs dry/empty, 542 HW & 3000-3500 lbs as optioned/restored & wet/loaded - vs. 770 HW & 7716 lbs rating for all USA Cayennes).

FYI - here's a photoshopped 2006 Cayenne S V8 that we looked at back in 2013 - with our Avion trailer to give an idea -


This was the actual photo with a rented 2013 Nissan Pathfinder 4.0L V6/AT-CVT? hitched to it -

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My wife had hoped to tow the Avion with the Westy - which is impossible, so we got her the Lil' Puck to haul around, but she still makes me drive!

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So I learned work on & maintain cars, by helping my Dad & Uncles work on the family cars over the years, which was something that I tried to pass onto my kids, but our daughter had no interest, and our son had limited interest & ended up with a 2017 Tesla S with lifetime free charging for no/limited maintenance needs.

Cheers!
Tom
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[Tom_T]

So - is anyone on here still using, driving, camping, etc. with their Westy?
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Also - here's a trivia or factoid question for the Westy Club - current & past owners:

Has anyone heard of the very limited production Porsche version of the Vanagon & Westy with the Porsche Flat-6 power?

.... &/or of the Oettenger Flat-6 WBX powered Vanagons & Westies?



Tom
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[Tom_T]

1985 Porsche B32 Carrera Executive Van & Westfalia Camper - 2 prototype panel vans, 15 6-seat Exeutive Vans, & 2 Westfalia Camper Vans powered by the Porsche 911 Carrera's 3.2L H-6 produced.

At the time the 1985 Porsche 928S was the top Porsche street vehicle selling for $50,000 - but the Porsche B32 Carrera Vans sold in the $100,000+ range - easily the highest priced & lowest production street car sold by Porsche in 1985.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...d-test-review/

These were not conversions - but actual Porsche Stuttgart plant built from purchased unfinished Vanagon Chassis/Body Shells, and RUF also did their conversions to Porsche 911 3.2-3.6L H-6 Vanagons - which are considered Porsches under the Porsche Club of America (PCA) rules.

1985 Porsche B32 Carrera Executive Van at the VW Bulli Museum:








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1985 Porsche B32 Carrera Westfalia "Joker" Camper Vans:



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Article on B32 Carrera:

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Another Article in German:


https://motoringconbrio.com/2010/09/...n-porsche-b32/
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Article with videos:
https://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-ne...-ar190201.html
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Enjoy!
Tom
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[GeorgeRa]

The end for our two Westfalias joy was decided in one Yosemite trip in 1987. Family of 5, 2 kids sleeping in the upper bed, youngest in the front Westfalia hammock, and we slept in the lower bed. It was hot so front windows were just cracked, a couple of inches open. Early in the morning I was getting ready to prepare a breakfast and noticed bear footprints on the driver door window. This bear was inches away from my son’s head.

Our next RV was a trailer.

[Richard Van Koughnett]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

The end for our two Westfalias joy was decided in one Yosemite trip in 1987. Family of 5, 2 kids sleeping in the upper bed, youngest in the front Westfalia hammock, and we slept in the lower bed. It was hot so front windows were just cracked, a couple of inches open. Early in the morning I was getting ready to prepare a breakfast and noticed bear footprints on the driver door window. This bear was inches away from my son’s head.

Our next RV was a trailer.

I don't have a van ,but purchased a 1986 Doka synchro . This is the hardest vehicle I have ever worked on . First it is my impression that it was 1986 that VW went to the 2.1 Wbx .This was the start of the aluminum engine block. I am doing a major rebuild on it . You can not take a bolt or nut off the engine or transmission without it snapping off ,it has been such a major headache .Any suspension piece you take off is done with a grinder with a cutting wheel or a sawsall But I think my truck has sat for 25 0r 30 years ! My two older boys are having a lot of fun with my major frustration. I describe my experience as I bought a legend and got a lemon . But I will beat this thing !!

[Tom_T]

RUF Porsche powered Vanagons

Now for RUF Porsche powered Vanagons were later 1988-92> T3B Vanagons with the bodywork update:




I'm not sure how many VW T3/T25 Vanagon Porsche powered builds that RUF did, but all RUFs are accepted in PCA Concours, Track, Autocross, DE & other Competitive Events as a "Porsche".

Googling for them will turn up a lot of "spinterisk" posts, and some actual articles & forum topics/posts about the RUF built Porsche Vanagons.
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Up next a bit later - the Oettenger VW T3/T25 WBX6 Conversions.

Enjoy!
Tom
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[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by Richard Van Koughnett

I don't have a van ,but purchased a 1986 Doka synchro . This is the hardest vehicle I have ever worked on . First it is my impression that it was 1986 that VW went to the 2.1 Wbx .This was the start of the aluminum engine block. I am doing a major rebuild on it . You can not take a bolt or nut off the engine or transmission without it snapping off ,it has been such a major headache .Any suspension piece you take off is done with a grinder with a cutting wheel or a sawsall But I think my truck has sat for 25 0r 30 years ! My two older boys are having a lot of fun with my major frustration. I describe my experience as I bought a legend and got a lemon . But I will beat this thing !!

Richard - contact Lucas Valdez at GoWesty about Doka parts, issues & questions. He has a nice one, and has brought both his Westies & his Doka up to the huge 300+ Vintage Trailer/RV Rally at Pismo Beach in May - and he parked & displayed them in front of our trailers/Westy.

Lucas will know of specific Vanagon Doka sources for you.

GoWesty, Van Cafe/Rocky Mountain, Bus Depot, etc. will be your main North American parts sources - and VW Bus Shop/Peter Guenzl in Germany, Bus OK in Netherlands, VW Heritage & Just Kampers in UK will be the main Euro/UK sources - & they are the primary suppliers of the parts which the 3 USA ones sell. There are others, but you can PM or email me if you need something not carried by them.

VW Classic now only sells via their 3 USA/Canada (North American) partners, & their EU/UK partners can't sell to USA/Canada customers anymore - so contact those 3 for VW Classic parts.

TheSamba.com also has a lot of Vanagon parts & info.

Your sons will appreciate your Doka more once it's done, pretty & running - catching looks from the gals!

Lesson - this is why I won't buy a "Salty Roads" state/province car of any type - too much rust damage - seen & unseen!


Good Luck!
Tom
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[Richard Van Koughnett]

Thanks for the info . I have not had a problem with parts , I place two to three orders weekly . Every time you touch one thing you end up replacing two more . But yes my oldest son has already clamed it when I get bored with it. And yes when I am done I hope to have some fun with it as well .It was sold new in Nova Scotia ,so on the Atlantic coast. I can inversion someone driving on the beach with the salt water splash all over .Gowesty just had a video out with some guy driving his camper through salt water on the beach and salt water going everywhere . All I could think is man are you going to be sorry

[Tom_T]

The Oettinger VW WBX6 T3/T25 Vanagon Conversion Kit was an aftermarket retrofit of the 1980-92+ VW Vanagon T3/T25 series vans, which came in 3.2L & 3.6L variants, with 4 wheel disc brakes, 15" allow wheels, aero-skirting, & other upgrades - costing another 50-70,000 German Marks, on top of the 20-40,000+ Marks cost of your Vanagon model to upgrade (about $50,000 + $25,000 for a 3.6L 1985 Vanagon Westy Conversion).



But it was based upon the earlier VW-Oettinger collaborative R&D work to develop a flat-6 waterboxer powerplant to upgrade the Vanagon to better compete with the newer Dodge/Plymouth/Chrysler, Ford, Chevy & other 1980s Minivans - most of which were or offered a 6 cylinder engine standard or as an option.

VW had consulted sister company Porsche A.G. on how to make their T3/T25 Vanagons more competitive & popular in the USA & worldwide, with Porsche's predictable answer based upon their limited production flat-6 aircooled B32 Carrera Vans was: make it a six!

So VW teamed up with respected VW Tuner Oettinger to create 3.2L & 2.1L flat-6 water-boxer versions of their 1.9L & 2.1L water-boxers, and that R&D went on until VW later decided to switch to the front engine/rear drive T4 Eurovan chassis for the 1990s.

When VW dropped the WBX6 program, Oettinger purchased the rights, and produced kits and did the conversions of the Vanagons - alongside their other VW models' tuner products, kits & conversions.

The advantages of the Oettinger WBX6 was that it was based upon, used many common parts from, & was designed for the Vanagon - such that it was a more straightforward conversion of WBX4 to WBX6 - than was the Porsche B32 Carrera Van's adaption of an aircooled ABX6 into a vehicle originally designed to be watercooled - essentially backdating it into an ABX6 vehicle. Although, the early 1979-83.5 Vanagons were aircooled 2.0L ABX4 motors, due to the WBX4 not being ready for production until mid-1985 MY.



















Oettinger also later built about 180 of their 3.7L WBX6 which used none of the VW 2.1L factory WBX flat-4 parts from 1987 on, according to an owner of one of those rare vans.

And I thought that VW factory 2.1L WBX 4 parts were getting harder to find of late!

Enjoy!
Tom
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[Tom_T]

Back to our `88 Westy -

We got it back from the shop, & had the GoWesty Repro Toilet/Storage Box installed, along with a 50 AH LiPO House Battery, Battery Charger & 700 W Inverter installed, the Side Step at the Sliding Door, Right Front & L & R Rear Mud Flaps installed to keep rocks off the side step & off the Eriba Puck when towing it (Westy's all came stock with a single LF factory mud flap to protect the LP tank from rock strikes), updated to new water hoses, sink faucet, water pump, water tank level indicator & all 3 hook-up boxes with new OEM parts, & a few other camping upgrades.

The big hold up on getting her back home was that the fuel injection ECU was fried in ours, but neither VW nor Bosch has them new anymore (NLA), & we had to wait for the one shop in the USA that rebuilds those ECUs get in another customer's "Core ECU" that could be rebuilt (apparently ours was damaged beyond redemption). Ergo, I've picked up another used ECU to have on hand as a spare or core, since ECUs can go out at any point.

The other big add-on was the re-intro/repro Westfalia Gray Waste Water tank under the sink, mounted under the belly pan behind the LF wheel well & in front of the LP tank - as shown in the pix below.

As promised in my first posts, here are some pix now that we have our Westy back home.

Cheers!
Tom
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[Tom_T]

On that subject -

Is anyone aware of a pre-made ready to go gray water waste water to sewer drain hose pre-assembled with the +/- 2 inch outside diameter screw-on connections which would fit the large threaded tank outlet in the pic below - which I can buy ready to go?



I'm not looking for suggestions & parts to put something together - but for sources for a ready made threaded connector drain line.

Thanx in Advance!
Tom
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[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by Jon in AZ

Welcome, Tom! I think we’ve already met over on FiberglassRV.com. I haven’t seen a lot of participation here from the VW Westfalia folks, either. They’re a pretty passionate bunch, so I assume they probably have their own space somewhere out there. Maybe a FB group?

Not show-worthy like yours, but we also pull an extra bedroom behind our van.
Attachment 11153

Hey Jon -

Can you please do me a favor, and post in my sewer drain hose topic on the FG RV Forums that there is some glitch with RVLife's system that has me locked out of that Forum, which I assume they're working on to fix it & un-block me.

https://www.fiberglassrv.com/forums/...tml#post810173

It's something to do with their security system that's gone awry, according to FGRV Moderator Mary F.

Let the responders giving me help on that topic, that I'll get back to them as soon as I can get back into my account & posts, but I cannot even look at that nor my other intro topic for the Puck over there.

Oddly enough - no problems with this Class B Forum nor AirForums nor Airstream Classifieds - all of which are under the RVLife.com umbrella. I suspect that an IT staffer did a "fix" for something on FGRV only, that has some unintended consequences to new members to that forum.

Thanx Much!
Tom
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[Jon in AZ]

Done. Hope you get it fixed soon!