Winnebago Trend / Itasca Viva on Ram ProMaster

[Mike]

My cousin has the "grocery getter" with the EcoBoost V6. He pulls a small TT which probably weighs around 2.5T through the mountains between Michigan and South Carolina, using various routes based on weather, mostly.
I'll ask him what he thinks so far. He used to pull a big fiver with the Ford F250 with the Powerstroke diesel, so he's got some experience pulling different sized trailers with different types and sizes of tow vehicles.

I'm thinking if it's not a stump pulling diesel, it should be a big block gasser under the hood of anything heavier than 5T GCWR, to see any kind of overall performance. The gas mileage is going to suffer, but that's the usual trade off with gas engines. More power, more fuel.

[booster]

I think what may be coming with the new generation of gas turbo engines is that they may follow the pattern of the diesels in the past. Turbo diesels have pretty much taken over the mainstream diesel applications as the technology improved to allow it. Now that the direct injection is making turbo gas engines more practical, with less detonation, higher compression, less fuel sensitivity, I think you will see many more of the big pulling power, truck style, turbo gas engines, including ones big enough to outpull the 6.8 and 8.1 gassers currently out there. With direct injection and the recovered heat in the turbos, they should be able to outperform the normally aspirated engines by a significant amount in both power and economy.

Gas has less heat per gallon than diesel (about 92%), so in a perfect world you would still only get 92% of the fuel mileage with a gasser. That would give you 18.4mpg instead of 20, so even some of the current gassers are pretty doing well against many of the diesels that have to meet emissions now. It would not surprise me at all that in 5 years, the gas and diesel will be equal in heat efficiency and running at the 92% gas to diesel ratio for mpg. At that point the ability for gas engines to rev and make more power may give them the edge.

[Suza]

Originally Posted by Davydd

That's not counting the numerous small strip shopping center parking lots I've pulled into for a Starbucks coffee those C's could not park in.

Oh, no! No Starbucks? This could be a killer for me Thanks for the head's up!

[Suza]

Originally Posted by Davydd

In our small BEE Social Group we had two couples just this year, Sprinter Winnebago Via and Itasca Navion iQ owners return to Class B buying the Winnebago ERA. The biggest reason was driveability from what I heard. The width seemed to be the biggest hangup since the lengths of 25 feet was not much greater than the ERA's 24 feet. Driving on small rural roads, the narrow kind without center line markings seemed to be the biggest hangup. When you go from a true B to a C you lose a lot of driving freedom, maneuverability, parking opportunities...probably more so than you realize since you tend to rationalize and alter habits. Those two couples were at one time previous B owners so understood. The extra foot or more of height or anything greater than 10 feet is another intimidating factor. The height can keep you off places like the Needles Highway in the Black Hills and the Going to the Sun Road in Glacier NP.

I'm guessing bottom line is the Sprinter Cs don't give you a lot more to put up with them. The bathrooms are more generous and can have dry baths, but the water and waste tank capacities don't give you much more to use them fulltime or adequately unless you stay at full hookup sites. Kitchens are not much bigger now that many B converters have finally gone to 7 CF capacity refrigeratior/freezers. Beds in many Cs can actually be substandard compared to Bs, especially those 54" kind crawl in wedged in corners with the the corner nipped off. Sometimes all you get in a C of that class is a little bit more standing around breathing room which might make a difference in extended stays in one place.

Being bigger and heavier they will never have the same fuel economy as the Bs. Besides the width factor, they will never drive down the road as smoothly as the unibody vans thus touring can become a chore not a joy. At some point a C gets so big you start to feel compelled to pull a toad. At some point you start limiting where you can camp or limit your choices as we noticed camping in a state forest last week and the struggles the bigger RVs had.

It's all in style. We talked to some RVers up at Voyageurs NP last week interested in our Sprinter. After listening to them I kind of figured they might not like a B since their style was extended stays and they liked to arrange campground camping host gigs around the country. The husband seemed hot for a B Sprinter probably for many of the reasons I mentioned but the wife liked bigger. They had yo yoed from a small Scamp/Casita like trailer to a full blown 5th wheeler and back down to a 24 foot trailer in trying to find their ideal. Through all that, they still did no like backing in and parking trailers. I suspect if they did go to a Sprinter they would probably go to a Navion/View kind.

Thank you for the food for thought. Good points made. Oddly enough, in our quest for the "perfect RV" I am the one leaning toward the B van, while my husband prefers the B+ (C). He likes the added living space, dry bath and has issues with some of the B Vans' ground clearance. I felt totally at home in a Pleasure-Way Plateau, but not sure that would hold true for an extended trip (part of our reason to downsize from a fiver is to take off cross country).

Husband is a retired truck driver, so driving a B+ is nothing in his mind, but I want to be comfortable driving as well (something I won't attempt towing a 30 ft 5th-wheel with a 23ft F-350). Parking is not such a big thing; we consider finding a parking spot at the grocery store one of the challenges of RV'n. In fact, I think twice before attempting to park our PU in our small town grocery store parking lot. Same with fuel economy. We are not die hard environmental advocates who cringe at every drop of fuel we burn; a few mpg are not going to sway any decision one way or the other. A B+ will still do better than 11-12 from our current setup.

My main reason for leaning toward the B+ is outside storage and the ability to travel with bikes and kayaks. Perhaps we will downsize again, when we can no longer pick up and board our yaks. Until then, I think we have decided on a LTV Unity TB. I like the twin beds with real mattresses (or king layout), the shower door that makes a bedroom door (for a dressing area) and the two additional passenger seats and (albeit small) additional bed up front. If we one day decide mobility and touring are more our cup of tea, I am sure I can be happy in a class B as well. With the B+, there is always the option to tow or bring along our motorcycle.

[wincrasher]

I think I would encourage you to look at the Ford Transit based B+/C units just entering production. There should be many on display at Hershey this September.

I've pulled a 5th wheel and driven B's, C's and A's. The B is the easiest to drive of course, then the 5th wheel, then the A and finally the B+/C. The wind is the issue. The 5th wheel is really forgiving in that regard as far as cross-winds and passing trucks. The B+/C units are more susceptible to these winds and depending on the chassis, can be quite a handful on the highway.

Personally, I'd prefer the wider track of the Promaster or the Transit chassis for the base of a Class B+/C. It should provide better handling. With the duals on the Transit cutway, you'd get the benefits of greater payload, as well as the wider track.

[B Eventually]

We’re currently 2,200 miles and 3 weeks in to our Trend’s shakedown trip. So far, it’s been a joy to drive and we haven’t had too much trouble parking and that includes a downtown Chicago parking lot and Cincinnati. However when driving through Iowa, we encountered 20 mph winds that didn’t deter semis and vehicles much, but we were pushed around a lot.

A lot of the small Cs don’t have much if any additional cargo or towing than a B. So keep that in mind too.

[mloganusda]

Just purchased a 2017 Trend 23D with the twin beds, small couch / Frig on slide out. We upgraded from a Rialta, 22', to this 24.4'. It has the double pane windows, solar panel, heated drainage system and 2 AGM batteries. Mileage was 1641 when purchased, drive down from Forest City, IO, and now have 2700 miles. At 65 mph mileage was 12.5-13.5 and at 60 mph went up to 14.5-15.0 mpg. I noticed some slight sway when semi passes me on 4 lane and also on two lane roads. Traveling to Forest City, IO for Grand National Rally in July, and will have a few items under warranty repaired.
I read about the Fuse model and some of his modifications for storage. Great idea of the shower skylight cover for heat intrusion. I added a CB antenna to the outside mirror using a muffler "C" clamp, because of the thick mirror arms, that I modified to fit the odd shape of the arm. Also looking into an outside cover for doors and front windshield, like sold for Ford & GM front cabs ($56 ?).

[Lex Mallari]

A new factory sent driver side rear bumper for sale $500.00 email me at lomallari1@gmail.com
Thanks

[mloganusda]

Taking MH in for V46 Solenoid pack recall. 2016 Cutaway MH on Ram ProMaster.

MLogan
Smyrna, TN