Winnebago Trend / Itasca Viva on Ram ProMaster

[Mike]

As an example of a Sprinter based B, Pleasureway Plateau exterior specs ....
EXTERIOR LENGTH 22 FEET 9 INCHES (Bumper to Bumper)
EXTERIOR HEIGHT 9 FEET 8 INCHES
EXTERIOR WIDTH 7 FEET 10 INCHES INC SIDE MIRROR

Specs of the Winnebago ERA models
70A 70X
Length 24'1" 24'1"
Exterior Height1 9'11" 9'11"
Exterior Width 6'4" 6'4"
Quite a variance in how each company measures their vehicles. I would guess Winnebago hasn't included items like awnings and mirrors.

Here are the specs on the various models of Winnebago View which is a "box" on a Sprinter chassis
24J 24M 24G 24V
Length 24'6" 24'6" 25'5" 25'5"
Exterior Height1 11'3" 11'3" 11'3" 11'3" (1 - full tanks, etc. = slightly shorter)
Exterior Width 7'6" 7'6" 7'6" 7'6"

Note the widths. I'll assume the mirrors aren't included, but can be retracted or folded, like most vehicles these days. The View which is a box on a chassis is under 8' wide, if you believe their website specs.
Just an FYI. We tried a Navion, and it did seem quite a bit taller than our van, but didn't seem that much wider.

[booster]

Be careful with width and the mirror, no mirror thing. When we were looking a few years ago, we found the width stated without mirrors, is literally no mirrors. Not folded mirrors, which still add somewhere in the 6"+ range to the width.

[Mike]

Those numbers were just one example (2?) I found which demonstrated that the actual width may be less than 8' on some Sprinter based B+ or small C "boxes". It also suggests not all class B Sprinters are the same width. I have to assume the measurements are accurate, but I have no idea what specific criteria they used when they stretched their tape measures out. If it were me, I would include the extended mirrors in the width. If that was the case, the View is less than 8' wide. I also believe the View's side mirrors probably fold/retract inside the width of the body, but can't confirm that without physically inspecting one. I think if you don't drive with your slide out, you might be able to sneak past another View on that Daniel Boone road in Kentucky.

[Davydd]

Here are the dimensions for the various Sprinters used for RVs. The basic width is slightly less than 6'-8" for all the vans and 6'-4" for the cab chassis. The Promasters are about 3" wider. In looking at the WB View the flair looks to be about 6" so the 7'-5" width might be accurate. The van awning housings sit on top of the roof so don't add any width. The Class C boxes all have the awning housings mounted on the side adding about 5" to the wdith. The mirrors, of course all have to make the overall width wider. Mirrors are variables as there are several versions. The mirrors and even the awning generally are not a factor in parking but the bodies are. The Cs all add at least a foot to that width. Rationalize that width all you want but plain and simple by actual dimension and even design sticking out in your rear view the Cs are way more intimidating to drive and do not handle as well.

Mercedes Benz dimensions for 3500 170" wheelbase high top cargo van (Most B Sprinters)




Mercedes Benz dimensions for 3500 170" wheelbase high top cargo van extended body (WB ERA and other EXTs)




Mercedes Benz dimensions for 2500 144" wheelbase high top cargo van (RT Agile, P-W Ascent)




Mercedes Benz dimensions for 3500 170" wheelbase standard roof cab chassis (Class C Sprinters)

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by Mike

Those numbers were just one example (2?) I found which demonstrated that the actual width may be less than 8' on some Sprinter based B+ or small C "boxes". It also suggests not all class B Sprinters are the same width. I have to assume the measurements are accurate, but I have no idea what specific criteria they used when they stretched their tape measures out. If it were me, I would include the extended mirrors in the width. If that was the case, the View is less than 8' wide. I also believe the View's side mirrors probably fold/retract inside the width of the body, but can't confirm that without physically inspecting one. I think if you don't drive with your slide out, you might be able to sneak past another View on that Daniel Boone road in Kentucky.

The road is less than 16 feet wide. I measured one spot at 15'-7" at a rest pull over. That might have been generous. Get yourself a Class C and try it. They might not even let you on the road and I guarantee you'll be a nervous wreck after. You probably couldn't get through the Needles Highway in the Black Hills and they'll stop you at Going to the Sun Road in Glacier NP. Then if you are a bourbon lover and want to take the Maker's Mark road to the distillery per a Garmin GPS direction, well, good luck with that.

[mlts22]

The seller (to me) for a "B" is less of that road, but the fact that parking spaces are around 7' wide, made to be as narrow as possible to squeeze cars in. Combine that with a psychopathic dislike of vehicles taking two spaces in Austin, and it makes a "C" with its eight+ foot width completely out of the question.

[Davydd]

Most standard parking spaces are 8, 8'-6" or 9 foot wide by 20 foot long. Parallel parking depths are generally 22-24 foot long and of course usually do not have a width marking. driving aisles between parking stalls are 24 foot wide on surface lots and maybe a little tighter at 22 foot in parking garages. Some stalls marked for compact cars only might cheat down on these dimensions. If you park in a length to length stall in a place like Walmart or Target you'll generally encroach a couple feet into the other stall but that doesn't keep a compact car from pulling in. Stalls at the edge of parking lots and at curbs allow you to overhang and stay within the marked stall. Target stores of which I was intimately familiar with in design have 9 x 20 foot stalls. City zoning and parking regulations sometimes override these requirements. The biggest problem with wide body Class Cs is the difficulty of making the radius turn and parking between two cars. You don't have any tolerances.

[Mike]

My example was the View/Navion/Solera/Tioga type of C, assuming they are considered a small class C? If you agree that they're a class C, then they fit the "box" criteria, although their "boxes" are apparently narrower by design.
I don't think there are very many (not too many at all that I can think of) actual small box style class C RVs like Coachmen, Majestic, and so on, that use a Sprinter as the base chassis. Most use either Ford E350/450 or the GM equivalent (3500/4500?) van/truck chassis. I would certainly agree that most of them are 8', or more, wide. I thought we were talking about the Ducato/Promaster Sprinter clones, and so my specs were based on them, not the wider "box" style class C RVs. Sorry, if I strayed off the topic.
I think I could probably get a Sprinter/Ducato/Promaster style class C by another one, on a pretty narrow road just by using some extra care and control. That Navion we drove wasn't a lumbering brute by any means. It's turning radius was more problematic IMO, than it's width.

[Davydd]

Go back to the first page in this thread. The ProMaster discussion veered to the Winnebago Trend which will be a big box C on a ProMaster cab frame. We've been speculating the width of the Trend which we have no specs on yet but by the looks of it, IMO, it will be closer to 8 feet than the 6'-8" width of the Sprinter van.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Go back to the first page in this thread. The ProMaster discussion veered to the Winnebago Trend which will be a big box C on a ProMaster cab frame. We've been speculating the width of the Trend which we have no specs on yet but by the looks of it, IMO, it will be closer to 8 feet than the 6'-8" width of the Sprinter van.

I think that was the idea, to consider what sort of RVs would use the Promaster/Ducato Sprinter clones? The Winnebago Trend is one of the first to consider the Promaster chassis.

I'm also pretty sure it will fall somewhere in that gap between 80" and 96" wide, like most class B Sprinter vans including the Great West Legend (I'll guess 7' 6", is that about right?), and some of the smaller class Cs, like the View/Navion at around 90" wide.

[mlts22]

One thing about the Trend, and I'm guessing from pictures. It doesn't seem to have any slide-outs. For some, that can be a deal-breaker, but I'm guessing the reason it wouldn't have slides is due to the added weight.

[Mike]

That is one of the question marks about these new cab chassis/vans, the power to weight issue. I'm less concerned about the width or height, except where the increased size in any direction adds weight. The V6 / 6speed transmission gas engine might be better suited to a shorter, lighter, van or cab chassis, like the SS Agile or Ascent.

[Davydd]

The ProMaster van is closer in size to the 144" WB Sprinter (Agile/Ascent) than the 170" WB Sprinter.

Since the Promaster is about 3" wider I am still going to guess the width will be closer to the full 8 ft. than 7'-6" and more like the Pleasure-Way Pursuit 8 foot box especially if it doesn't utilize slideouts to gain space.

It appears Winnebago Trend is looking to stake out a low end price niche against the competition. That would account for no slideouts as well and nipping at the minimums and marginals in performance. I just hope they think out the design better than their Travato effort. It will be low-end all the way around but if that is what it takes to sell, so be it. I would have no interest. I'm not anti-Winnebago. I think they have a hit with the ERA 70A design even while it too stakes out the low-end in the Sprinter B market.

There is an interesting discussion on sleeping 4 in a B on RV.net - Give me some way to sleep 4 in a B. What hits home with me is Bs are really not suited for more than 2 people without a tremendous amount of sacrifice. That's where these small Cs come into play, IMO. I have a little experience with that. We hauled our son and two grandsons (6 and 2) out to Washington DC and back two years ago with the aid of a tent and this year we are going to bring our 10 year old grand daughter back from DC maybe without the tent.

[gerrym51]

with AC 10 feet 4 inches high-top of AC. thats definite. I think 7.5 feet wide-actual box not rearview mirror extension-thats not definite

[Davydd]

If 7'-6" it is 10" wider than the Sprinter vans of 6'-8" That 4" over 10'-0" is an ouch! category killer for garages if you desire no more than a 10 foot door and some tunnels and Going to the Sun Road in Glacier. Inches make a big difference. The critical dimension on the Going to the Sun road is not length but is the vertical height limitation of 10 feet primarily west bound because of the rock overhangs. Even though they say 22 foot length maximum, they won't stop a Sprinter van since their own shuttles are the 24 foot Sprinter vans.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by Davydd

If 7'-6" it is 10" wider than the Sprinter vans of 6'-8" That 4" over 10'-0" is an ouch! category killer for garages if you desire no more than a 10 foot door and some tunnels and Going to the Sun Road in Glacier. Inches make a big difference. The critical dimension on the Going to the Sun road is not length but is the vertical height limitation of 10 feet primarily west bound because of the rock overhangs. Even though they say 22 foot length maximum, they won't stop a Sprinter van since their own shuttles are the 24 foot Sprinter vans.

davydd, you are fixated with the positives of sprinter b. i won't say any negatives because you will twist them to positives. Oh well.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by mlts22

One thing about the Trend, and I'm guessing from pictures. It doesn't seem to have any slide-outs. For some, that can be a deal-breaker, but I'm guessing the reason it wouldn't have slides is due to the added weight.

mlts22-i see your posts on rvnet etc. except for ltv i don't now of any slide outs on straight sprinters whic i saw on your sportsmobile posts.


the ducato trend says it can only tow 2000 pounds also. it's not mean for a lot of weight in load or towing. it is what it is. a 2 person rv in the long term.

[gerrym51]

the info says it uses the rear flexbed system so i think its the view 24v with no slide-just a guess


http://www.gowinnebago.com/products/201 ... loorplans/


i tried the link i can't stop it from going to 24j you must click on 24v

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

]
davydd, you are fixated with the positives of sprinter b. i won't say any negatives because you will twist them to positives. Oh well.

I'm fixated on the inches.

As much as I like the design plans of the Advanced RV Ocean One and the Winnebago ERA 70A I haven't reconciled liking the 24 foot long Sprinter. I even still have some reservations about the newer model regular Sprinters growing 10" in length over the earlier models.

[mlts22]

I was looking at European "B"s (started by searching for "UK motorhome" and "German motorhome"), and see how they solve the bed issue. One maker with a floor plan similar to the Travato has a second berth which folds out and above the first one. Another maker that has "double" high-roof vans had the dinette area turn into one bed, then had a drop-down for the second level.