Winnebago Travato with Volta Lithium Battery System

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by BBQ

.

Volta Key points

The Auto-Start

1. Each cycle will run for 60 min
2. @ high idle -- 1,600 RPM
3. Cycle stop triggers: SOC=90%, or fuel<1/4 tank
4. No cycle limits. The autostart will repeat the cycles until the fuel is down to 1/4 tank
5. The headlight will not come on during autostart cycles

Is the idle speed programmable by the owner? 1600 rpm is pretty raucous both in and outside of the coach and will likely get you tossed out of a campsite.

[wincrasher]

Based on what knowledge?

High idle on this engine isn't very noisy at all - 950 standard idle you can barely hear at all.

[booster]

For our Chevy, 1600 would be pretty fast, and noisy. Our curb idle is 545rpm, so 1600 is three times faster, which is quite a bit. I wouldn't want to do submit other campers to that speed, or live with it myself.


I think what so many manufacturers, and users, are trying to do is get the maximum output recharge in place, in a campsite, at "idle". IMO, that is a bit of a push, and not really necessary except for salesmanship and specmanship. We can get an easy 120 amps at 545 rpm on our Chevy, and over double that as we are driving to get more rpm and cooling. At 545, the Chevy gasser is barely audible. If we need to recover so fast we need more than 120 amps, we will go for a ride and leave the neighbors in peace. I would hope they would do the same for us, but I wouldn't count on it these days.

[booster]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

Based on what knowledge?

High idle on this engine isn't very noisy at all - 950 standard idle you can barely hear at all.

Are you sure the base idle speed is 950? That sounds pretty high for a V6, as they normally would be in the 650-750 range, from the ones I have seen.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

Based on what knowledge?

High idle on this engine isn't very noisy at all - 950 standard idle you can barely hear at all.

Who's talking about 950? And if you don't think a Dodge engine running at 1600 rpm isn't making a lot of noise, you don't have a worry in the world.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by booster

For our Chevy, 1600 would be pretty fast, and noisy. Our curb idle is 545rpm, so 1600 is three times faster, which is quite a bit. I wouldn't want to do submit other campers to that speed, or live with it myself.


I think what so many manufacturers, and users, are trying to do is get the maximum output recharge in place, in a campsite, at "idle". IMO, that is a bit of a push, and not really necessary except for salesmanship and specmanship. We can get an easy 120 amps at 545 rpm on our Chevy, and over double that as we are driving to get more rpm and cooling. At 545, the Chevy gasser is barely audible. If we need to recover so fast we need more than 120 amps, we will go for a ride and leave the neighbors in peace. I would hope they would do the same for us, but I wouldn't count on it these days.

Our 6.0 Chevy is very quiet at 600 rpm but at 1100 rpm high idle programmed by Chevy it's definitely audible and at a level I wouldn't want to subject an adjacent campsite to. And at 1600 rpm? Fuggadeabout it.

I can appreciate how revved up idles can be of value in a 12 volt system, but with a 48 volt system this seems like overkill.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

Is the idle speed programmable by the owner? 1600 rpm is pretty raucous both in and outside of the coach and will likely get you tossed out of a campsite.

Quiet hours and generator running times should be respected with those that have second alternators. It is not too hard to predict when your batteries need to be charged so you don't have to do it in the middle of the night. Advanced RV has the ability to program quiet hours so the alternator does not autostart. I don't know about the Travato but the Sprinter Revel will be loud.

[wincrasher]

Well, I have a Promaster, do any of you? It's not going to be loud at 1600. At most, it's going to run 1 hour, so you can work around quiet times.

A Revel would be loud, as would the ARV because they are desiels and they are loud even at regular idle.

But there is one solution for all you rabbit hole dwellers - just turn off the autostart or drive the van down the road. Problem solved.

[booster]

We have a Chevy gasser that is about a quiet as they come, and I can tell you it is quite noisy at 1600 rpm, and nobody would want to be next to it for an hour. Yep, diesels would be worse, but that doesn't make ours good at 1600rpm.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

Well, I have a Promaster, do any of you? It's not going to be loud at 1600. At most, it's going to run 1 hour, so you can work around quiet times.

A Revel would be loud, as would the ARV because they are desiels and they are loud even at regular idle.

But there is one solution for all you rabbit hole dwellers - just turn off the autostart or drive the van down the road. Problem solved.

Yep, us rabbit hole dwellers are afflicted with a pathological desire to extend common courtesy to and thoughtfulness for our RV neighbors. If there was just some way to deliver ourselves from this confounded infirmity.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by booster

We have a Chevy gasser that is about a quiet as they come, and I can tell you it is quite noisy at 1600 rpm, and nobody would want to be next to it for an hour. Yep, diesels would be worse, but that doesn't make ours good at 1600rpm.

Besides engine noise at 1600 rpm, there's additional noise contributed by a high power alternator. When ARV went to their Delco unit they developed a torque converter to mitigate belt wear and alternator noise. I doubt that Volta or Xantrex is implementing anything similar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XANYxoEF_HY

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

Besides engine noise at 1600 rpm, there's additional noise contributed by a high power alternator. When ARV went to their Delco unit they developed a torque converter to mitigate belt wear and alternator noise. I doubt that Volta or Xantrex is implementing anything similar.

How is this different from the Roadtrek E-Trek??
And, running an engine is NOT running a generator..

I've never heard of anyone being cited for that... engines are normally quieter than generators... I know mine is and it's a diesel.... propane generator is much noiser....

[avanti]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

Besides engine noise at 1600 rpm, there's additional noise contributed by a high power alternator. When ARV went to their Delco unit they developed a torque converter to mitigate belt wear and alternator noise. I doubt that Volta or Xantrex is implementing anything similar.

The Nations second engine alternator does NOT add a significant amount of noise to a Sprinter engine. At least not when used as designed. Back when ARV used the Nations unit, they apparently developed some kind of home-brew mounting system, rather than using the standard Nations setup. The problem that they were solving with that elaborate torque converter was of their own making. I documented this here:

http://www.classbforum.com/forums/f2...html#post44432

Be sure to follow the link at the top to the video I made of the stock Nations setup on my rig.

We all owe a lot to ARV's spirit of experimentation, but by definition experiments don't always succeed. It is possible to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

[Davydd]

It is silly to think of any engine or alternator is quieter to such a degree you can run it in the middle of the night and not disturb your camping neighbors. Just the act of starting an engine up is like an alarm clock and then any subsequent noise is noted and annoying. How many times have you woken up in a campground because of people leaving early in the morning? You may dose back off only because the camper had left the campground and silence once again.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Davydd

It is silly to think of any engine or alternator is quieter to such a degree you can run it in the middle of the night and not disturb your camping neighbors. Just the act of starting an engine up is like an alarm clock and then any subsequent noise is noted and annoying. How many times have you woken up in a campground because of people leaving early in the morning? You may dose back off only because the camper had left the campground and silence once again.

I completely agree with this. I do not believe that gensets are long for this world. And, they make the least sense of all in a B-van. My rig still has one, but since I installed a big-enough battery and a second alternator, it's only purpose is as an emergency backup, and it is barely worth having for that purpose.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by avanti

The Nations second engine alternator does NOT add a significant amount of noise to a Sprinter engine. At least not when used as designed. Back when ARV used the Nations unit, they apparently developed some kind of home-brew mounting system, rather than using the standard Nations setup. The problem that they were solving with that elaborate torque converter was of their own making. I documented this here:

http://www.classbforum.com/forums/f2...html#post44432

Be sure to follow the link at the top to the video I made of the stock Nations setup on my rig.

We all owe a lot to ARV's spirit of experimentation, but by definition experiments don't always succeed. It is possible to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

There you go again taking a subtle shot at Advanced RV. Since I am the only one posting on this board having both a Nations and Delco alternator installation on the same Class B, I can tell you Advanced RV used the MB brackets on the Nations installation. Get over it.

Custom brackets had to be made for the Delco alternator. I'm glad I switched. The Delco alternator setup is vastly superior to the Nations in all performance respect. And you apparently have no knowledge other than that video.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Davydd

There you go again taking a subtle shot at Advanced RV. Since I am the only one posting on this board having both a Nations and Delco alternator installation on the same Class B, I can tell you Advanced RV used the MB brackets on the Nations installation. Get over it.

Custom brackets had to be made for the Delco alternator. I'm glad I switched. The Delco alternator setup is vastly superior to the Nations in all performance respect. And you apparently have no knowledge other than that video.

I have provided the video. Folks can believe you or their lying eyes.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Davydd

There you go again taking a subtle shot at Advanced RV.

BTW: There is a bit of daylight between "taking subtle shots" and respecting them greatly without assuming that they are incapable of making mistakes.

Also, the issue is not the use of the MB brackets. It is whether they used the standard Nations hardware, which by all appearances they did not.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

Besides engine noise at 1600 rpm, there's additional noise contributed by a high power alternator. When ARV went to their Delco unit they developed a torque converter to mitigate belt wear and alternator noise. I doubt that Volta or Xantrex is implementing anything similar.

Did they develop a torque converter? I got the impression that they were using an OAD similar to one of these, maybe even sourced from this company?

http://www.daycoproducts.com/dayco®-...er-pulleys-oad

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

Did they develop a torque converter? I got the impression that they were using an OAD similar to one of these, maybe even sourced from this company?

Apparently it's custom built for ARV and consequently it is pretty expensive. Davydd probably has one on his coach and can provide details.