Winnebago Travato with Volta Lithium Battery System - Page 2

gregmchugh · 03-13-2018, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by booster

I think this is basically the heart of the whole thing. We don't live in the unbearable heat areas of the south, so we don't have to deal with it for the most part while camping. We do have to deal with half a year of too cold for camping (at least for most of us

) weather here. The solution for northerners is go south for winter trips, so to us it would seem logical that southerners would go north for summer trips, but that apparently doesn't happen as often.

As nice as the Volta system is, it will not eliminate the need for running the van engine regularly, which may or may not be permitted where you are camped. More and more idling rules are coming into affect all the time, along with no generator rules.

Personally, I don't think systems like the Volta will be truly usable for daily air conditioning until the the recharging of the batteries can be done silently in the background with something like the propane powered fuel cell in one of the other discussions, as the engine running to recharge is not going to be universally viable in the future.

A big system like the Volta would be great for those of us that wouldn't use it for AC, as we could stay offgrid and not driving for a long time with it, and not have to go very far at the next drive to refill, but it is a lot of cost to do that when you can get probably 95% of the same with lead acid system and at a fraction of the cost.

We got by fine with 220AH AGM in our Roadtrek but when we designed the new truck for full time travel we decided to set it up with capabilities for extended remote camping and went with 720AH lithium and 1000 watts solar. We went with a two burner induction cooktop (diesel cooktops are an option but give of too much heat to the cabin) and a countertop electric oven (we rarely use a microwave but we could have gone with a convection microwave). We have a rooftop AC which we use when we are plugged in visiting our daughter in FL but will rarely use except to cool off the cabin on occasion. Two electric bikes to keep charged. We have generator to use if needed to recharge and run the AC if we need it but expect to get enough solar to handle our typical daily power needs since we stick to cooler climates and avoid the heat.

Could we get by with less battery capacity or AGMs, sure, but when you plan to live full time in your RV it is convenient to not worry much about battery charging or AGM absorption charging time. I guess I am with Davydd on this, we leave the inverter on all the time and don’t worry about it (but it has a very low parasitic power draw).

Of course, if you buy a custom built expedition truck you are not attempting to save money on your RV...

BBQ · 03-13-2018, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerrym51

I will say one thing-after having been posting here awhile I always know beforehand how most people will post in reaction to anything.

1. 'Old is good and more dependable'. Not worth the money.
2. Sounds 'great' but too expensive.
3. Running out and 'buying tomorrow'.
4. 'Want it and have the money' just can't justify it.
5. "Lead me to an order form'.
6. 'A detailed explanation of pro's and cons' and why you won't buy it.
7. 'Why can't Roadtrek do this?'

Pick your response

Isn't this what a discussion forum is for?

Life is about agree to disagree.
or... your choice is good for you.

gerrym51 · 03-13-2018, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

We got by fine with 220AH AGM in our Roadtrek but when we designed the new truck for full time travel we decided to set it up with capabilities for extended remote camping and went with 720AH lithium and 1000 watts solar. We went with a two burner induction cooktop (diesel cooktops are an option but give of too much heat to the cabin) and a countertop electric oven (we rarely use a microwave but we could have gone with a convection microwave). We have a rooftop AC which we use when we are plugged in visiting our daughter in FL but will rarely use except to cool off the cabin on occasion. Two electric bikes to keep charged. We have generator to use if needed to recharge and run the AC if we need it but expect to get enough solar to handle our typical daily power needs since we stick to cooler climates and avoid the heat.

Could we get by with less battery capacity or AGMs, sure, but when you plan to live dull time in your RV it is convenient to not worry much about battery charging or AGM absorption charging time. I guess I am with Davydd on this, we leave the inverter on all the time and don’t worry about it (but it has a very low parasitic power draw).

Of course, if you buy a custom built expedition truck you are not attempting to save money on your RV...

Greg-did you actually mean 'live DULL time in your rv'. Just wondering

booster · 03-13-2018, 04:33 PM

In gregmchugh's case, he is using the extra batteries to get more off grid time, which is what I was referring to as the second (after AC) reason folks would want the big battery pack, and lithium. The 1000 watts of solar is going to probably cover most of your use, and you have a generator, so you have everything covered. Plus you are in it full time, so you really are at home

My guess is that you rarely have to use the generator (would guess you have a big charger for battery recovery off of it), and probably never run the engine to charge, so a very different situation than a autostarting van for AC use.

Sure, with the huge RV size and load capacity, you could have done it with AGMs, and it would have worked fine, I think, with the solar capacity, but you chose not to and get a bit more convenience. If the cost is worth it to you to get the extra convenience, that is a valid choice. That is where the 95% of benefit with AGMs comment comes in, if it is worth the cost to get the 5% more convenience, nothing wrong with that, especially with it being a quite small amount % wise in an RV of that class.

Jostalli · 03-13-2018, 05:04 PM

Great system but that common RV A/C has got to go. There are efficient DC A/C’s that draw just 45 amps that you could actually use full time. Most upfitters are using Kingtec.

gregmchugh · 03-13-2018, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerrym51

Greg-did you actually mean 'live DULL time in your rv'. Just wondering

Damn autocorrect in action...

gregmchugh · 03-13-2018, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by booster

In gregmchugh's case, he is using the extra batteries to get more off grid time, which is what I was referring to as the second (after AC) reason folks would want the big battery pack, and lithium. The 1000 watts of solar is going to probably cover most of your use, and you have a generator, so you have everything covered. Plus you are in it full time, so you really are at home

My guess is that you rarely have to use the generator (would guess you have a big charger for battery recovery off of it), and probably never run the engine to charge, so a very different situation than a autostarting van for AC use.

Sure, with the huge RV size and load capacity, you could have done it with AGMs, and it would have worked fine, I think, with the solar capacity, but you chose not to and get a bit more convenience. If the cost is worth it to you to get the extra convenience, that is a valid choice. That is where the 95% of benefit with AGMs comment comes in, if it is worth the cost to get the 5% more convenience, nothing wrong with that, especially with it being a quite small amount % wise in an RV of that class.

We already told the kids that we were blowing their inheritance and they were not bothered by it. But, these vehicles do have a pretty good resale value without much depreciation compared to a standard RV. By the time you sell, the prices of new ones have gone up and there is always a long lead time to get one so used ones tend to sell for not much of a loss from what you paid for it but it can take awhile to find a buyer at the price they sell for.

Yes, the Mastervolt 4000 watt inverter has a 200 amp Battery charger so quick charging with the generator running when we need to do it.

The alternator on the Kenworth K370 is not that high power but there is a DC-DC battery charger to provide slow charging of the lithium’s while driving. Of course, you could just run the generator while driving to get a fast charge.

Boxster1971 · 03-19-2018, 01:26 AM

Just attended the FMCA rally in Perry, GA where I discovered that the Liberty conversion on a Prevost bus chassis is the top of the line amount multi-million dollar RV/Tour coaches. Then found this article on their use of the Volta system.
http://libertycoach.com/news/battery...power-systems/

- - Mike
2012 Sprinter 3500 Extended converted B-Van by Airstream

booster · 03-19-2018, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boxster1971

Just attended the FMCA rally in Perry, GA where I discovered that the Liberty conversion on a Prevost bus chassis is the top of the line amount multi-million dollar RV/Tour coaches. Then found this article on their use of the Volta system.
Battery Breakthrough: Q&A with Jack Johnson of Volta Power Systems - Custom Luxury Motorcoach

- - Mike
2012 Sprinter 3500 Extended converted B-Van by Airstream

With all the the manufacturers that are jumping in now to Volta, it will be interesting to see if they perform as expected. I think there is a high probability they will do pretty well.

If they do perform well, they will take away the only real major selling point that Roadtrek has, leaving them with just Rah-Rah and Koolaid, plus some substandard quality

. It could be a rough go for them in the future.

gregmchugh · 03-19-2018, 03:07 AM

Here is a video interview with Volta about the Liberty coach system that Gerry found...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cw87j5scmd8&app=desktop

B Eventually · 03-19-2018, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by booster

If they do perform well, they will take away the only real major selling point that Roadtrek has, leaving them with just Rah-Rah and Koolaid, plus some substandard quality

. It could be a rough go for them in the future.

On the bright side for Roadtrek/Hymer, they could always ditch their kludged together system for a Volta system. That would be better for R/H & their customers.

booster · 03-19-2018, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B Eventually

On the bright side for Roadtrek/Hymer, they could always ditch their kludged together system for a Volta system. That would be better for R/H & their customers.

It would be interesting to see if their ego would let them do that, as they have never admitted to any shortcomings in their systems. Of course, we may get a chance to see, it the Volta lives up to expectations.

wincrasher · 03-21-2018, 11:49 PM

I think it depends on if they honestly look at their total cost on it.

Their home grown system probably has bigger margins on the equipment side. They did have a big sunk cost in the development that may not be fully ammoritized out yet. But I'd bet they have a pretty hefty price tag on warranty claims and training. Could be a money saver in the longer run to adapt a vendor supplied system - especially if you can offload the warranty exposure onto a vendor.

Then again, if their warranty exposure is paid by a reinsurance plan, then they may have zero coming off their ledger. I have no idea.

Winnebago's move is brilliant though and I'm sure we'll see Pleasureway and Coachmen follow. I thought Coachemen's offering was pretty good and has quality parts, but going 48 volts on charging and having a working autostart system is compelling.

wincrasher · 03-23-2018, 04:08 PM

Well, I placed an order for one of these Lithium Travatos. Going to get another G, this time in Granite.

They are selling with the typical Winnebago margins, so although the MSRP for this package is rather high ($29k), it get's discounted in the same way as the rest of the options you may desire. So still figure you can get a Travato full optioned out for the standard 25-30% off MSRP.

They are telling me they are getting a ton of interest and many orders. The prototype van shown in San Diego was only built two weeks ago, so they were not exactly ready to start producing yet. So they are estimating end of June delivery.

That sounds optimistic, but I'll take it for now.

wincrasher · 03-23-2018, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakeyLee

I agree wholeheartedly. I have the same issues with the Travatos. I wonder if they eliminated the Onan, if they could somehow increase the fresh water tank capacity? 21 gallons is a little on the small side.

The water tank on both models drops to 18 gallons. The the waste tanks on the K are 1 gallons smaller too. Here are the specs:

B Eventually · 03-23-2018, 04:18 PM

Wincrasher, will this be Travato #3 or #4? I've lost count.

gerrym51 · 03-23-2018, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wincrasher

Well, I placed an order for one of these Lithium Travatos. Going to get another G, this time in Granite.

They are selling with the typical Winnebago margins, so although the MSRP for this package is rather high ($29k), it get's discounted in the same way as the rest of the options you may desire. So still figure you can get a Travato full optioned out for the standard 25-30% off MSRP.

They are telling me they are getting a ton of interest and many orders. The prototype van shown in San Diego was only built two weeks ago, so they were not exactly ready to start producing yet. So they are estimating end of June delivery.

That sounds optimistic, but I'll take it for now.

i'd be interested to know if the many orders are actual buyers or dealers ordering what they think will be hot. Although travato's are in general big sellers-they are also the lowest price for what you get. Another 20 thousand dollars(net) might cause the uninitiated to go for the Onan version. I myself as i've said am serious looking at a 59KL. However the wife will have to sit in one. No ordering now for us

gerrym51 · 03-23-2018, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B Eventually

Wincrasher, will this be Travato #3 or #4? I've lost count.

he posted on facebook #4.

he's had 2 g's and a k before. he's also got everything else

He should just move to winnebego's plant in Iowa-lol

B Eventually · 03-23-2018, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerrym51

i'd be interested to know if the many orders are actual buyers or dealers ordering what they think will be hot. Although travato's are in general big sellers-they are also the lowest price for what you get. Another 20 thousand dollars(net) might cause the uninitiated to go for the Onan version. I myself as i've said am serious looking at a 59KL. However the wife will have to sit in one. No ordering now for us

There has to be at least a handful of current Travato owners who are selling or trading in their T's for a Volta Travato. If we still didn't have a young family and if we hadn't already upgraded to lithium (we did with our Trend), I'd be jumping at the chance to upgrade.

B Eventually · 03-23-2018, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerrym51

he posted on facebook #4.

he's had 2 g's and a k before. he's also got everything else

He should just move to winnebego's plant in Iowa-lol

That sounds about right. I seem to recall he modified the electrical system of #4 or maybe it was the previous one. It's hard to keep track.🍿

Thanks for the FB reminder. I hate FB but have a no-friends account to follow and participate in a few groups. I think I'll jump on and see what the Travato folks are saying about the Volta option.

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