Where does your charging come from survey

[booster]

The lithium/AGM stuff is good information, but also rehash of many other discussions here on the forum.


This was intended to be a discussion of charging SOURCES, not destinations like battery types, as there was recent thread touting using generators instead of big alternators, with little or no backup as to why that would be true, IMO.


Another lithium vs AGM thread could certainly be started to go into more detail on the hows and whys of both chemistries.



The information we have gotten so far on charging sources has been very interesting I think, as it seems to be showing even lower generated use than I suspected it might.....Keep the information coming but please, less diluted with other stuff.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by InterBlog

So how'd I do? Are you satisfied with the estimates that apply to your van?

There's some TL;DR in this thread that I had to skim in order to make a stab at deducing the rough usages.

Thank you for the table. 288W solar panels average among 15 folks having solar panels. So, my 300W is a little above. Interesting data.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Davydd

…………………………
I've said many times if you want a van that behaves electrically and transparently worry free with no compensating factors same as if you had shore power, lithium ion is the solution for now. The trend in boondocking which is much greater than when I got into RVing over a decade ago will drive it. You need not feel you have to be tethered to shore power.
……...

Excellent qualifier Dave, I don’t. We can all have different wants and needs.

[KathRN]

I could use help along these lines! Does anyone know of a competent RV electrical person to help me with my system in San Diego ? I go bone dry after three days even with solar 240 watts. Sorry if off topic and if so, just ignore!

[booster]

Originally Posted by KathRN

I could use help along these lines! Does anyone know of a competent RV electrical person to help me with my system in San Diego ? I go bone dry after three days even with solar 240 watts. Sorry if off topic and if so, just ignore!

You probably want to start a new thread where you can ask the question and list all the information so we would be able to get a handle on what you have and how it is being used.

[booster]

One of the main things that I was interested in seeing was actual generator use, no that more are using the engine to charge larger battery banks.



Just under 23% listed using a generator at all, so 77% of the relpying are generator free.


Of the 5 users of generators only one was over 25% of the time.


The impression that generators were quickly falling out of favor has been on this forum for a while now, but if these results are really representative, the increase of no generator campers has gone up a lot, and more than I expected.


I think it is getting more obvious that with the availability of products these days, going without a generator for everything but AC is well within reasonable range for a quite large percent of class b campers.


Thanks to all for the replies.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by booster

One of the main things that I was interested in seeing was actual generator use, no that more are using the engine to charge larger battery banks.



Just under 23% listed using a generator at all, so 77% of the relpying are generator free.


Of the 5 users of generators only one was over 25% of the time.


The impression that generators were quickly falling out of favor has been on this forum for a while now, but if these results are really representative, the increase of no generator campers has gone up a lot, and more than I expected.


I think it is getting more obvious that with the availability of products these days, going without a generator for everything but AC is well within reasonable range for a quite large percent of class b campers.

Well, maybe genest usage is going down, but we really don't have very good historical data, so it is hard to say. Frankly, it is hard for me to believe that they have EVER been used seriously in B-vans. The noise level is beyond ridiculous and obviously always has been. I honestly can't imagine any sane person using a genset for any significant interval except maybe in extreme heat conditions.

I suppose maybe things were different back when everybody had one tiny battery and no solar. Even then, though, I am guessing that the noise limited usage to an hour or so of daytime running to get enough charge to run the lights the next night.

[Davydd]

Generators are getting to be equivalent to spare tires. When I got into Class Bs no one offered a second coach battery option. It was just given that the battery provided power to lights, idiot lights and alarms and you mostly plugged into shore power in campgrounds, powered up a generator or used propane. My first two Class Bs had charger/converters and low watt (750w) inverters to power intended for a TV when not plugged in. You really could not do much with a TV but chance a DVD movie or check local news weather when available over the air. To use your microwave, electric coffee pot or the 120V AC electrical outlets you had to rely on shore power or the generator.

My first Class B (2005) there was no way to add a second battery without a major jury rig. One did it with a Pleasure-way Plateau and it was a marvel making it's round on the Internet. People were just starting to discover AGM batteries but the upfitters were not. I had a second battery installed at the factory on my Great West Van and dealer and Great West asked me, why? That was just 9 years ago. Wet cell lead-acid was a pain to maintain. Every trip you had to check cells and add water and you had primitive controls to prevent deletion. That's why most learned absorption refrigerators never ran on 12V even when driving. You forget one time on a lunch stop and you have a dead battery.

Generators still claim the myth of having air conditioning. I think it is a special person that forsakes shore power to settle for a sound sandwich of air conditioning overhead and generator underneath while soundly sleeping at their favorite out of their way nature spot.

I think it is inevitable Onan type generators are going away with more battery power and high watt inverters to power them. AGM's have a practical ceiling of weight and space of about 400ah in a Class B. That will do it but I think with more people demanding even better in boondocking that lithium ion will become the norm. There was no Harvest Host or Boondockers Welcome a dozen years ago to lure the romance of it. Only the knowledgeable and hardy attempted much boondocking other than overnight stays like in Walmart underway and many looked down on that as strange. I still have Class B friends who won't stop at a Walmart.

Alternators already are the major source of battery power in the survey. Solar can provide for low amp hour battery power capacity replenishment but will diminish in importance with high amp hour battery power capacity as I have experienced and second alternators will be needed for the more high amp hour batteries. You simply cannot easily find the time and location for running Onan type generators to replenish high capacity batteries.

I think about 400ah battery banks, give or take, will separate engine alternators, solar and generators from second alternators and lithium ion as the standard. I also think lust, envy and expectations will just absorb the extra cost in Class Bs already at a premium over other types of RVs. That's the current technology prognosis not counting other things yet to come to pass like fuel cells and flux capacitors.

I think upfitters will initially resist this trend and just put their toe in the water to battle the cost but are there any who are not offering a lithium ion option?

[rowiebowie]

I could completely do away with my generator based on how I've not used it in any significant way during 4 major trips and over almost 20,000 miles.

The reason is we travel in cool weather because we can. We are retired and prefer the off-season. We also alter our trips to stay in the zones where the weather is pleasant. Just a few weeks ago while headed South from Charleston to Savannah and St. Augustine we were considering heading down to Miami. However, the weather was turning hot and the next cool front wasn't predicted to make it much further South than our present latitude. So we turned West towards home and enjoyed nice weather for the entire week.

But having said that, I like having the generator (and a spare tire) just in case.

And with my recent lithium battery upgrade, running the generator for an hour (if we should decide not to drive anywhere that day) would easily top out my lithiums.

[jaak1993]

10.1 kwh battery, solar removed, 6kw second alternator, no generator. We have limited experience but our last 16 day trip never required plugging in, even when we stayed at a campground with that possibility. It just made it easier to come and go. Our limitation seems to be water and sewer.

So, 100% second alternator in a highly altered 2015 Great West Van

[Van_Dreams]

24v, 258 ah lithium (individual cells wired DIY with 123SmartBMS)
900 watts solar
Sterling power DC to DC 70 amp charger
3000 watt victron multiplus inverter charger

Really happy with my battery and set up overall. It’s basically a mobile power station — I can power pretty much any power tool, etc and the system never skips a beat. The alternator charger is really more for winter use. Haven’t needs anything but the solar in summer. I highly recommend 24 volt systems if you have >300 AH (@12v) of lithium — keeps the current at very safe, easy-to-manage levels. I’d be frightened to have my system at 12 volts!! I also really appreciate being connected to a victron VenusGX — allows me to watch battery temp and SOC 24/7 remotely since we do not presently live in the van.

[Davydd]

This video is germane to this topic. We are the Russo's borrowed a Class B with 1,000ah of lithium batteries and spent a day at the beach to demonstrate the electrical capability and battery draw down brewing coffee and tea, using an Instant Pot, popping popcorn with an air popper and a microwave, watching TV, etc. It is actually the 48V Volta system but they don't get very technical or show it off. The Russo's are very experiential but not too technical.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAR7oDgyRp8

[Van_Dreams]

These new 48v systems from Winnebago etc are awesome. Finally competent electrical systems from the major players!

[@Michael]

Originally Posted by Davydd

I think it is a special person that forsakes shore power to settle for a sound sandwich of air conditioning overhead and generator underneath while soundly sleeping at their favorite out of their way nature spot.

Sound sandwich.

No better description is possible. No need to try.

[rowiebowie]

Our '2012 Airstream Avenue (Chevy chassis) is proof they can mount an Onan generator under the rear bed with effective isolation mounts and "just enough" sound insulation. Our 2800KV generator is not obtrusive. Noticeable, surely, but significantly quieter than the overhead ac (which is usually on if we have the generator running and mostly drowns it out).

I don't get the feeling it adds to noise or vibration and seems more cancelled by the ac (at least when the compressor is also running). If needed, I wouldn't hesitate to run our generator for battery charging. But mostly, we run it to "exercise" it and run the ac as the "load".

[rowiebowie]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

Thank you for the table. 288W solar panels average among 15 folks having solar panels. So, my 300W is a little above. Interesting data.

Update! I failed to put our solar capacity in my initial data. We have a factory-installed 20W solar panel (not a typo).

On a good sunny day, that sucker can put out .9 amps for a few hours.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Davydd

…………………………..That's the current technology prognosis not counting other things yet to come to pass like fuel cells and flux capacitors. …………………………………..

Good one indeed!

[Modersical]

I have a 2017 Coachmen Galleria 24Q, with two Duracell 12v AGM batteries in the coach.
The 100W flex panel up top helps keep it topped off through a Go Power 30 amp PWM Solar Controller; or when hooked to shore power, or running the generator.

The single alternator keeps the starting battery nicely charged, but this rig does not have the circuitry to charge the coach batteries from the alternator.

There is a 12v refrigerator that works well, and gets the temperature down nicely, turning on the night before leaving (from a place I cannot plug to shore power).

After running the fridge overnight, all day driving, and overnight boondocking, there is barely enough juice left to start the generator, if able to at all.

Being able to charge the house batteries from the engine alternator while driving would satisfy our needs well, as has been the case with two different class Cs that we have had.

I could connect the house batteries to the starter battery, with a switch or continuous duty solenoid, to allow charging the house batteries from the alternator, but was unsure as to whether I should install a switch to isolate the house batteries from the usual charging circuit to protect the charger/inverter???

The Go Power tech support said that it would not hurt to leave it connected to the solar charge controller, as long as the voltage did not go above 15v, which would cause an error code.

Who could advise on making the connection to charge the house batteries from the engine alternator? Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Modersical

I have a 2017 Coachmen Galleria 24Q, with two Duracell 12v AGM batteries in the coach.
The 100W flex panel up top helps keep it topped off through a Go Power 30 amp PWM Solar Controller; or when hooked to shore power, or running the generator.

The single alternator keeps the starting battery nicely charged, but this rig does not have the circuitry to charge the coach batteries from the alternator.

There is a 12v refrigerator that works well, and gets the temperature down nicely, turning on the night before leaving (from a place I cannot plug to shore power).

After running the fridge overnight, all day driving, and overnight boondocking, there is barely enough juice left to start the generator, if able to at all.

Being able to charge the house batteries from the engine alternator while driving would satisfy our needs well, as has been the case with two different class Cs that we have had.

I could connect the house batteries to the starter battery, with a switch or continuous duty solenoid, to allow charging the house batteries from the alternator, but was unsure as to whether I should install a switch to isolate the house batteries from the usual charging circuit to protect the charger/inverter???

The Go Power tech support said that it would not hurt to leave it connected to the solar charge controller, as long as the voltage did not go above 15v, which would cause an error code.

Who could advise on making the connection to charge the house batteries from the engine alternator? Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

The industry standard connection method from the engine alternator/battery to the coach would be an battery separator, otherwise known as an automatic charge relay. It will connect them when charging is available at either the coach or engine and isolate them if no charging going on to prevent killing the starting battery. There are lots of variations of the separators, including nice ones with remote override switches to manually be able to control if you want to in certain conditons.


Be aware that your solar may be big enough to initiate a connection and if it is an high parasitic load coil type separator, it can eat all the solar, wasting it. The better ones are very low power and will not have an issue that way.


You will need big enough wiring between, probably at least #4 cable for two AGMs and auto reset breakers on each end of the cable.

[hbn7hj]

My biased opinion would be to install a Kisae DMT-1250 with at least 6 gauge wire from the engine battery. Throttle it back to no more than 40 amp charge rate.

Biased because that is what I do tho through an isolator. An hour or two drive per day will fix you right up.

Connecting the house battery directly to the engine battery through an isolator or switch will do the job but not properly. It will not charge at the proper 14.4 volts.