Volta Power Systems - 48volt Battery Pack

[BobHoya]

We are considering buying a Winnebago Boldt 70KL that is equipped with the Pure3 Lithium 48volt Battery Pack system - - which includes the battery pack, inverter, dedicated alternator and solar panel. Winnebago states that the a fully charged system is capable of running the A/C for up to 8 to 12 hours without needing to recharge the battery pack. Does anyone have experience with this system? What are the good and bad issues found. Thanks

[Winston]

We have no firsthand experience with the Volta system other than seeing a Boldt at an Arizona Winnebago gathering and doing some on-line research. The good news seems to be that there are very few negative comments - - often the birthing pains of new technology include a deluge of customer complaints. So, either, they haven't sold too many or, it's a good product.

We think 48 volts is the future of RV power. When we built our DIY system 3+ years ago we stuck with 12 volts because so few 48 volts appliances were available and we didn't want to deal with the hassle of having a second, 12 volt inverter. Truth is, as we now run most everything in our unit from 110 VAC, this concern no longer exists.

As we recall, the Volta system included in the Boltz has 12.5 KWH capacity - - this is double our lithium DIY installation and should be, as advertised, good for many hours of air conditioning. Do more research, but if the price is right, we wouldn't discourage you.

[rowiebowie]

Welcome to the forum Bob!

Another new Boldt owner here: https://www.classbforum.com/forums/f...ner-10403.html

[Dodgedieselguy]

I am a very satisfied customer of Volta. Their product is far superior to anything else out there as I spent months checking out all the competition. I have owned my system for almost a year and am full timing in complete satisfaction. Go for Volta and you’ll be pleased.
Chip Fisher

[JonK]

As a test I ran my A/C full with the compressor running full time, the Volta system lasted about 4-1/2 hours. I would expect lose to 8 hours under normal circumstances. Of course the size of the AC matters in how long it will run. If I were interested in a Bolt I would ask to see it run from full battery to cutoff. This test also assumes you run nothing else, which not how things work in the real world.

I love my Volta system, but damn it's expensive.

[Davydd]

There are two different volta battery systems offered in watt hours for vans 13.5 Kwh and 10.1 Kwh. Air conditioning is also a function of ambient temperature, what temperature you set, how well your van is insulated, the size of the van, whether you treat windows to reflect radiant heat, the efficiency of the air conditioner, whether solar contributes while parked, and maybe the color of the van. A lot of variables. You can extend with generators charging your batteries but I discount the generator charging for this comparison purpose.

For battery comparative purposes, ARV installs the Volta 13.5 Kwh system. There is also a 10.1 Kwh system I think Winnebago offers. I couldn't check there specs right now. In comparison my 12v 800ah lithium batteries are equivalent to 10.4 Kwh. In another comparison Volta says their 10.1 Kwh system is equivalent to 18.5 type 31 AGM lead acid batteries. I would defy anyone can install 18+ AGM batteries in a Class B van.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Davydd

There are two different volta battery systems offered in watt hours for vans 13.5 Kwh and 10.1 Kwh. Air conditioning is also a function of ambient temperature, what temperature you set, how well your van is insulated, the size of the van, whether you treat windows to reflect radiant heat, the efficiency of the air conditioner, whether solar contributes while parked, and maybe the color of the van. A lot of variables. You can extend with generators charging your batteries but I discount the generator charging for this comparison purpose.

For battery comparative purposes, ARV installs the Volta 13.5 Kwh system. There is also a 10.1 Kwh system I think Winnebago offers. I couldn't check there specs right now. In comparison my 12v 800ah lithium batteries are equivalent to 10.4 Kwh. In another comparison Volta says their 10.1 Kwh system is equivalent to 18.5 type 31 AGM lead acid batteries. I would defy anyone can install 18+ AGM batteries in a Class B van.

I think the actual quivalent would closer to 10-12 gp31 12v batteries if they were 100ah



Probably better to compare to 6v GC batteries, though. The 10.1Kwh is around 840ah at 12v, so 8 GC2 AGMs at 220ah each would give 880ah (700+ usable) or 10.5kwh and that has already been done in class b vans. Which is the best idea is totally up to the user, IMO. benefits to both ways. I am however a big Volta supporter because of the 48v system, as long as you can handle the temp limitations of lithium.

[gerrym51]

if i were buying today-i would go with volta system-but with the Travato.

[JonK]

There were 3 option from Volta when I did mine; 6.1kwh, 10.1kwh, and 13.5kwh. Only with the last 2 do they supply the second alternator. Also, the values just given are gross kwh, the usable is reduced by a margin of 5% at the top and bottom so the usable is 90% of the gross. The system I have has an electric battery heater that consumes 100-110 watts when needed and that need too is variable.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by booster

I think the actual quivalent would closer to 10-12 gp31 12v batteries if they were 100ah

I suspect they were citing the oft recommendation of drawing down AGM batteries to only 50% which has been discussed many times in this forum. What I have never understood, since most AGM battery systems are 400ah or less and usually 100-200ah why they don't install more sophisticated BMS controls to prevent total discharge. It is very easy to discharge with low ah capacity systems. Maybe that drives the 50% recommendation.

However, if they were 10-12 group 31 batteries it would still be difficult to install them in a Class B for space and weight.

[markopolo]

Volta 50% AGM:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y09REi-jtfQ

Deep Cycle lead acid can be discharged lower than 50%. Most of the world knows that by now. Hopefully they do if they are in the battery business. Very disappointing to me that they chose this to help market their Lithium Nickel Manganese Cobalt Oxide battery.

[Bud]

Originally Posted by markopolo

Volta 50% AGM:

Deep Cycle lead acid can be discharged lower than 50%. Most of the world knows that by now. Hopefully they do if they are in the battery business. Very disappointing to me that they chose this to help market their Lithium Nickel Manganese Cobalt Oxide battery.

At the moment I can't think of any lithium outfit that does it any different.

[markopolo]

I was curious about NMC (Lithium Nickel Manganese Cobalt Oxide) vs LFP (Lithium Iron Phosphate)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnzxrnS0JkE

I guess you shouldn't pierce them with a nail!

[booster]

Originally Posted by markopolo

Volta 50% AGM:

Deep Cycle lead acid can be discharged lower than 50%. Most of the world knows that by now. Hopefully they do if they are in the battery business. Very disappointing to me that they chose this to help market their Lithium Nickel Manganese Cobalt Oxide battery.

I agree, it is very unfortunate that they choose to do that. The 50% rule is so implanted in most battery users heads that the sellers can very easily use that as nobody questions it. All you have to do is look around the various forums for RVs, boats, etc and you will find lots of people that think you are nuts to discharge beyond 50%, ever. If you show them the data that shows it is not all the bad to do and that life shortening is nowhere near the cutting in half they claim, when looking at energy stored and recovered, most will not accept it. Same thing for the battery sellers of both lithium and AGM as it helps sell more.


That Volta graphic would not be nearly as impressive if it said 9000whr for lithium and 8000whr for AGM.


I agree that AGM systems should have a bottom end cut off like most of the lithium systems use, as it just makes sense to do.

[Davydd]

Are you ignoring the weight factor and number of discharge cycles in lithium vs. AGM?

Still, in my 144 Sprinter design I cannot, for an 800ah system, possibly physically put 10-12 AGM batteries let alone the weight factor and I imagine that be the case for just about any 144 Sprinter design. I probably could not make a case with the 24'-1" 170 Sprinter as well just based on my current Class B but I have not analyzed that. The 18.5 AGMs are based on the 50% discharge factor which is not just the manufacturer's of the batteries but the converters who have failed to install BMS safeguards who recommend 50% with the idiot light readouts. Even if someone could shove that many AGMs in their design it would be a major hit on functionality, capacity, amenities and storage in a small van.

BTW, ARV told me they cannot install and fit a 56V Volta system in most all their 144 designs so far including mine. They have been installing the Lithiumwerks 12V Valence batteries. Their Elite Power Solutions batteries that I currently have is a block build installed under the van floor and they have not done that either on a 144 Sprinter. I guess there is not room behind the back axle and to protect the batteries with their steel cage and aluminum skid plate would double the weight.

[booster]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Are you ignoring the weight factor and number of discharge cycles in lithium vs. AGM?

Still, in my 144 Sprinter design I cannot, for an 800ah system, possibly physically put 10-12 AGM batteries let alone the weight factor and I imagine that be the case for just about any 144 Sprinter design. I probably could not make a case with the 24'-1" 170 Sprinter as well just based on my current Class B but I have not analyzed that. The 18.5 AGMs are based on the 50% discharge factor which is not just the manufacturer's of the batteries but the converters who have failed to install BMS safeguards who recommend 50% with the idiot light readouts. Even if someone could shove that many AGMs in their design it would be a major hit on functionality, capacity, amenities and storage in a small van.

BTW, ARV told me they cannot install and fit a 56V Volta system in most all their 144 designs so far including mine. They have been installing the Lithiumwerks 12V Valence batteries. Their Elite Power Solutions batteries that I currently have is a block build installed under the van floor and they have not done that either on a 144 Sprinter. I guess there is not room behind the back axle and to protect the batteries with their steel cage and aluminum skid plate would double the weight.

Not ignoring the weight issue at all, as the comments were only about 50% rule, which IMO is completely bogus. Sure weight is an issue, but so is cost and the temperature stuff with lithium, but that is a different conversation and different for different configurations and users. A huge percent of AGM installs are 440ah or less, with most of them in the very common now 220ah range. At 220ah weight is usually not an issue, and often not at 440ah, which is what we have in our single rear wheel Chevy.


There is no one size fits all solution to class b power systems, and there a lot people that can't, or won't, spend the very big dollars on a high end lithium system. Others can and do, so no problem.

[markopolo]

I can't imagine anyone wanting 800Ah of lead acid batteries in a small RV at this point in time. It would take a very long time to charge them. 400Ah seems to cover most needs/wants with the exception of running an air conditioner overnight.

It would be better to compare Volta's NMC (Lithium Nickel Manganese Cobalt Oxide) batteries to the more familiar LFP (Lithium Iron Phosphate - LiFePO4) batteries.

Which is better for RV type use? How dangerous is NMC compared to LFP? How does cycle life compare? Any difference in temperature issues? Can it be readily replaced or are you locked in with the company for as long as you own the RV? What will replacements cost? How much energy is wasted stepping 48V down to 12V to run the fan in an RV?

All of that would be more informative than underrating AGMs.

[Davydd]

You can't imagine because you never had or experienced one. I have for going on 4.5 years and running an air conditioner is not my criteria. ARV pioneered it. Winnebago will push it to the masses so to speak. Roadtrek could have done that long ago if it didn't have a Rube Goldberg setup.

[markopolo]

Originally Posted by Davydd

You can't imagine because you never had or experienced one. I have for going on 4.5 years and running an air conditioner is not my criteria. ARV pioneered it. Winnebago will push it to the masses so to speak. Roadtrek could have done that long ago if it didn't have a Rube Goldberg setup.

You've never had 800Ah of lead acid batteries.

[GeorgeRa]

It is amazing that most of B class commercial or DIY are focused on batteries, Li is better, more is better. A prevailing trend, while:

- Most of Bs are overweight,
- Most of Bs are under insulated,
- Most of Bs are overpriced as compared to Europe,
- Most of Bs are for 1 or 2 to sleep not for young families,
- Most of Bs are for 2 for driving on factory safety tested front seats,
- Most of Bs or all don’t have crush or pull tested passenger seats,
- Most of Bs are low riders,
- Most of Bs have loud heaters,
- Most of Bs have loud AC ……….
- Most of Bs - am I missing something?