Victron monitor defaults and programming

[themexicandoctor]

Just after I posted, I immediately started watching the video you provided so I could comment intelligently & to show you I was paying attention & in doing so noticed my Bluetooth Dongle* not working/flashing - it frequently becomes loose of that connection.

*BEWARE anyone buying Victron equipment, online the marketing is not deceptive but you must note.

The word BLUE does NOT mean BLUETOOTH.

ie; my new MTTP 30/100 Controller is marked as Victron Energy BlueSolar but IT DOES NOT have Bluetooth. Instead you have to invest more money than what you would have initially if you bought the Bluetooth version.

Save yourself the hassle & buy the equipment marked Victron Energy SMARTSolar, THIS IS THE BLUETOOTH VERSION.

As it happened I asked my Guru to buy the Bluetooth version from my favourite vendor AM SOLAR & he saw it $60 cheaper & so what arrived was the non Bluetooth version which I only discovered about an hour after it was installed & I couldn't connect & called the Vendor.

Furious when I found out but I see how easy it is to make that error because of the way its marketed - many people on Amazon have had the same issue & once opened there is no returns but with a 50% fee.

And this BS Dongle frequently pops out of the housing, in putting it back I knocked one of the MPPT positive wires loose & trying to work in that tight space without a short screwdriver is very difficult.

======================

Does the video presentation mean I need to buy this device;

https://www.victronenergy.com/access...-battery-sense

Even though I already have this Victron BMV712 Temperature Sensor?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/ya/ref=...596701-3393830

And if I have two batteries 3 feet apart, in front of the rear wheel & one behind, would I need to get two Battery Sense devices?

[themexicandoctor]

Booster,

If it does, I will ask the Guru during our Q & A Session to install it & let you know "in his immortal words", its merits.

[themexicandoctor]

Here are some more photos of my Pretzel Box, unfortunately the earlier ones I sent were with the MPPT 15/75, NOT the bigger, better 30/100.

Can you better define what is attached to what?

I can only imagine knowing you Booster* that when you added the new battery bank under the bed that you modified the entire set up so it was easier to maneuver.

[booster]

Here is our install thread.
https://www.classbforum.com/forums/f...rade-4007.html

[booster]

Don't know what all you would need, the Victron literature is very poor on that kind of stuff. They want everyone to go to one of their installers, I think.

[themexicandoctor]

For Booster;

The solar can't see the amps going to the battery unless it attached to the shunt, so it can't really know the state of charge of the battery accurately, only guess based on voltage.

Does that help?

[themexicandoctor]

Booster,

Magnificent install, NASA would be envious.

HOW did you get the bed materials apart. When I first looked at doing so to increase underbed storage for my medical table (I ended up fabricating a system that uses the side door entry as fixed storage space), it seemed I could not get the material to unscrew & unglued & in speaking with Peter Lange he said "its been designed to never come apart without destroying it ..."

I see where you made provision to stop "the hot air from looping back into the inlet ..."

How about doing these fabrications for other owners for a fee now you are 100% ahead of the learning curve.

Is there anything you would do differently in the future?

For my Magnum install I had them install the unit upside down, on the underside of the bed, behind the wall of the electrical box & then drill a circular hole in the cubby door so that if was to run the unit for extended times it would draw hot air from that compartment into the under bed area.

[booster]

Originally Posted by themexicandoctor

For Booster;

The solar can't see the amps going to the battery unless it attached to the shunt, so it can't really know the state of charge of the battery accurately, only guess based on voltage.

Does that help?

That is what I said earlier, as the solar controller appeared to be a hardwired only unit. If it can be put on bluetooth to talk to the battery monitor, which is attached to the shunt and measuring from it, the solar controller could know the same accurate information as the monitor does.

[booster]

Originally Posted by themexicandoctor

Booster,

Magnificent install, NASA would be envious.

HOW did you get the bed materials apart. When I first looked at doing so to increase underbed storage for my medical table (I ended up fabricating a system that uses the side door entry as fixed storage space), it seemed I could not get the material to unscrew & unglued & in speaking with Peter Lange he said "its been designed to never come apart without destroying it ..."

I see where you made provision to stop "the hot air from looping back into the inlet ..."

How about doing these fabrications for other owners for a fee now you are 100% ahead of the learning curve.

Is there anything you would do differently in the future?

For my Magnum install I had them install the unit upside down, on the underside of the bed, behind the wall of the electrical box & then drill a circular hole in the cubby door so that if was to run the unit for extended times it would draw hot air from that compartment into the under bed area.

Our bed is a full time setup that I built early on to get rid of the power sofa and all the wasted space it uses up. It is completely clear side to side, front to back from the wheel wells and boltsters to rear doors. It quite easily disassembles by design, so it was easy to get it out of the way.


Nobody could afford the labor it takes to do the way I did, as it is very tight and everything had to be built. Plus on is enough hassle to go through for me.


I wouldn't change anything major, except for maybe to build the battery hanger platform a bit bigger to allow a hard sided box around it so I could fan cool it from the side of the van. Any other stuff would be minor clean up of details for the most part.

[themexicandoctor]

Its a Masterpiece!

[stevegoldfield]

I read this thread which underscores how difficult it is to accurately measure the SOC of a battery. I vaguely remember that Thor included SOC readings for the batteries in the Sequence. Does anyone know how they did that and whether those readings are accurate?

I have a Carado Banff with one AGM and two lithium batteries. The only thing I can see is the voltage with one of the lithium batteries turned on or both. I don't think I have any visibility to the condition of the AGM. I lose power in my RV when the displayed voltage gets down to about 12.4 or 12.5 volts. It would be great to have a reliable reading of SOC on each of the three batteries, but perhaps that needs to be designed into the system or else needs extensive retrofitting. It also seems that such a system would need recalibration to account for battery aging.

[themexicandoctor]

You, are in the right place.

Sometimes a pm goes a long way especially if the answers can be repeated on the forum for others.

[JohnnyCLE]

For something as critical and expensive as an RV energy storage and management system the state of the industry seems to be laughably bad. Possibly 4 programmable sources for charging, none of which speak to each other.

Only the shunt based monitor really knows what is going on with the battery banks and it can't control anything only trigger alerts if someone is around to care. And the shunt based monitor only has information about the entire bank, not individual batteries.

Alerts and automatic cutoff protections need to be set up under load, but battery health needs to be determined at rest. Some moment in time snapshot information is displayed but very little historical summaries are available.

It appears that Victron is moving to share information between their components and provide some history. That is refreshing. The idea of manually babysitting and logging this stuff is a bit much.

On a personal note, to top it off, after research I have discovered that my solar controller has a 12v low voltage battery protection cutoff. Had this been used with the 12v loads distribution / fuse panel right next to it I could have avoided ruining $3600 worth of batteries!

I guess the future will be exciting as all of this gets sorted out.

[Sehc]

Rod Collins has the best instructional I have read. https://marinehowto.com/programming-a-battery-monitor/

[booster]

Originally Posted by Sehc

Rod Collins has the best instructional I have read. https://marinehowto.com/programming-a-battery-monitor/

I as mentioned before, we have discussed his monitor articles a lot here, and IMO, the settings he says to use will give poor results.

[JohnnyCLE]

One of the takeaways from this thread and the posted link is understanding the limitations of a gauge and to use it within these. Much like not using an airspeed indicator for pilot navigation. Many variables go into determining actual groundspeed and, more critically fuel burn.

My wife's doctor has condemned his young, formerly gymnast, daughter to a life in a wheel chair by running out of fuel 10 miles short of his destination runway. Piloting 101.

Fortunately toasting some batteries or running low on current won't have this level impact for most of us. But get to know your gauges and what they can and can't tell us is good advice.

I thought one of the points mentioned in the link which was interesting was the need to test and deep cycle batteries. A lot of stress has been given to keeping batteries "full". The larger a battery bank and care to keep it "full" the more likely to have frequent shallow cycles.

How often should we be "deep cycle" our batteries if our systems are automatically "shallow cycling" them? The side benefit is we get an actual capacity test result.

[booster]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCLE

One of the takeaways from this thread and the posted link is understanding the limitations of a gauge and to use it within these. Much like not using an airspeed indicator for pilot navigation. Many variables go into determining actual groundspeed and, more critically fuel burn.

My wife's doctor has condemned his young, formerly gymnast, daughter to a life in a wheel chair by running out of fuel 10 miles short of his destination runway. Piloting 101.

Fortunately toasting some batteries or running low on current won't have this level impact for most of us. But get to know your gauges and what they can and can't tell us is good advice.

I thought one of the points mentioned in the link which was interesting was the need to test and deep cycle batteries. A lot of stress has been given to keeping batteries "full". The larger a battery bank and care to keep it "full" the more likely to have frequent shallow cycles.

How often should we be "deep cycle" our batteries if our systems are automatically "shallow cycling" them? The side benefit is we get an actual capacity test result.

So true, monitors are very useful for and RV but certainly aren't like a toaster where you just plug it in eat.


I think what gets some people down on them, including the hired installers, is that the often tell people what they don't want to hear, usually that charging equipment isn't doing a very good job. That is how we go into this thread, because the solution for the manufacturers and installers appears to be to set the meters up so they don't tell the users the bad news. This is the primary issue in getting batteries truly full on regular basis, it isn't the monitors fault as it is a charging issue, but the monitor gets the rap.


Getting truly full saves batteries and gains capacity over chronic short charging so a very good thing as mentioned. I am also a fan of not being afraid to use the capacity under the 50% SOC level that many consider the lowest you should go. It just makes sense, isn't the horrible life shortener many think, adds 60% or more to your capacity, and may save buying a bunch of extra batteries to prevent an occasional 80% discharge.


I have not ever been able to get any good information out of the battery manufacturers on the benefit of an occasional deep discharge. Not a full capacity test to zero SOC, but down to about 80% or so, just seems to make sense for me to convert the battery chemistry fully and rebuild once in a while to refresh it, but completely and non chemist guessing here.


What the manufacturers do say quite a bit now is the very shallow discharges can be an issue in battery life, usually saying something like 10% or less. My guess is that this may not really be the discharge depth being the main issue, but the fact that, especially in AGM batteries, the battery killing "drying out" of the battery by gassing during charging happens mostly at the top end of the charge. This would mean that five 10% discharges would inflict more harm than one 50% discharge. Just another guess, though.

[themexicandoctor]

This is a great thread.

I love my Victron equipment & it opened my eyes in that when you have multiple charging systems, there is a learning curve & even the best monitor on the market for $150*, isn't a simple Plug & Play because of all the variables.

*always buy the SMART BLUETOOTH

But one starts on the front foot by getting detailed data, the next step is the fine tuning.

At the same time, the quality of the Lifeline AGM's & their ability to thrive with deep discharges is highlight again & again.

My fridge goes in today or tomorrow.

Now I will learn just how good my systems work together.

To think back to a few years ago when my Education was reflected in my reliance on those Four Lights on the Roadtrek Battery Display;

CHARGING - self explanatory
FULL - Fool
GOOD - Going Bad you Fool
LOW - Time to buy new batteries

[JohnnyCLE]

Perhaps it is worth lobbying for a companion thread which would be "Getting the most out of your battery Monitor"

It might address:
- Understanding how your batteries compare to new
- Seeing what your batteries are actually getting from your charging sources
- Measuring what your demands are from each appliance
- Examining how well you are using capacity and maintaining your batteries
- Setting useful alerts
- Identify next step improvements to your electrical system

[booster]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCLE

Perhaps it is worth lobbying for a companion thread which would be "Getting the most out of your battery Monitor"

It might address:
- Understanding how your batteries compare to new
- Seeing what your batteries are actually getting from your charging sources
- Measuring what your demands are from each appliance
- Examining how well you are using capacity and maintaining your batteries
- Setting useful alerts
- Identify next step improvements to your electrical system

Pretty much all of those topics have been extensively discussed on this forum over the years, particularly in the 2-6 years ago time frame as several of us were testing a building AGM systems and doing charging upgrades. Along with all of the above, something that goes right along with it all is a better understanding of the batteries themselves and some of the "rules" that may not apply.


All good stuff for sure, but those discussions got very detailed and long in many cases, so putting it all in one thread would probably make it so large it would be hard to understand or follow.


Perhaps a separate thread to address those issues with just the premises of the all the items and a request for clarifying questions would work out better?


One thing I think we have seen over the years is that there are not a lot people that are interested in the details of this stuff, which is understandable, I think. Unfortunately, in this stuff, to make it a no input and fully automatic system is not easy or cheap to do. There are lots of folks that would like to improve battery life and usability but when they see the costs involved to do those things they decide that the reduced battery life and compromises are a better choice for them than the improvements would be. In general, that is not a incorrect choice for many people. Those with smallish battery banks and low to moderate usage, especially in wet cells, can replace the batteries (and maybe add one) quite a few times for what the cost of the improvements would be.


The above is actually part of the reason for this thread. We often recommend getting a battery monitor when users ask about what is going on with their systems, which IMO is the right thing to do. The goal of the monitor in the long run would be to help manage use to not run out of power, but perhaps the short term goal of the monitor could be more important, to bring the decision of upgrade the systems or not to high visibility. If the monitor isn't set up to give that information accurately, the decision is never really made because it never comes up with too conservative of settings. IMO, the default Victron settings are pretty useless in the real world because they can say a terrible charging system is getting a good charge on the batteries when just the opposite my be happening.


Bottom line, I think, is that many people would probably get the best benefit by setting up the monitor accurately so they can see where they stand. Many/most will find there equipment is not stellar, but decide that upgrades are not possible for various reasons. Then they should go back in to setup the monitor to match what they are getting for results from the system so they can accurately know how much power they really have. Not perfect for sure, but relatively low cost way to at least know where you stand with your power availability.