van automation

[@Michael]

Originally Posted by avanti

...when the van is in storage, I plan to have everything shut down except one ESP32 which will monitor the Internet for requests to power the system up for remote access.

Would you want some kind of dead-man relay so that if that ESP32 croaks, other devices power up and allow remote access? I.E. - If ESP32 dies, power on the RPi & use RPi to diagnose?

(In my fridge fan setup, I have a NC relay that I hold open with an ESP8266 GPIO pin so that if my ESP dies, my fans will run directly from unmodulated 12V. Same concept.)

[avanti]

Originally Posted by @Michael

Would you want some kind of dead-man relay so that if that ESP32 croaks, other devices power up and allow remote access? I.E. - If ESP32 dies, power on the RPi & use RPi to diagnose?

(In my fridge fan setup, I have a NC relay that I hold open with an ESP8266 GPIO pin so that if my ESP dies, my fans will run directly from unmodulated 12V. Same concept.)

Yeah, I think making critical systems fail safe is going to be one of the most interesting parts of the project. One reason I have always shied away from Silverleaf and its ilk is that there are sometimes single points of failure that could spoil a trip. I don't mind if I lose my pretty accent lighting, but the fridge is a different matter.

I think the strangy is to decide what is "critical" and what isn't, and design accordingly. Actually, I am not sure whether the RPi will be on the critical list or not. The beauty of a distributed architecture involving lots of ESPs, etc, is that the critical things can be in the "spinal column" (so to speak), not the "brain". The really important things can have relays and physical switches in parallel.

Edit:
Thinking more about this, the WiFi AP will be an important link in the chain. It probably needs a backup of some kind. Fortunately, that is cheap and easy.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by TravelingCOWs

Thanks for the discussion.

Have you thought about how much power the system will draw? The hub will probably be on all the time. Some sensors can have their own batteries. Switches will be listening all the time too, I suppose.

Avanti I believe is contemplating at least 700ah of lithium ion batteries. There is an annoying power draw with all those systems contemplated but with that much ah it becomes insignificant. I can see it real time on my Silverleaf screen.

Originally Posted by avanti

Yeah, I think making critical systems fail safe is going to be one of the most interesting parts of the project. One reason I have always shied away from Silverleaf and its ilk is that there are sometimes single points of failure that could spoil a trip. I don't mind if I lose my pretty accent lighting, but the fridge is a different matter.

The Silverleaf is just a gathering reporting screen mechanism. If there is a failure of the refrigerator it will be the refrigerator and that has nothing to do with Silverleaf. It prevents a cockpit like controls on a wall with individual modules and switches. It is kind of the wizard you see and the controls are hidden behind the screen in a cabinet. It probably is not a DIY venture anyway as at one ARVfest they mentioned that 28 companies participated in some way to create the wizard.

[@Michael]

Originally Posted by Davydd

The Silverleaf is just a gathering reporting screen mechanism.

There is a lot to be said for tactile, clickable, mechanical knobs and buttons. I'd be annoyed as heck if every time I wanted to flip on a light or shut off the pump, I had to navigate touchscreen menus - especially if they are resistive touch (not capacitive) and were slow to react. A row of mechanical switches that can be pushed or flipped by feel in the dark without first having to 'wake up' a touch panel are ideal.

On the other hand, it's also annoying to me that I cannot manage simple things (open the roof fan, adjust the fridge temperature, turn on the water heater or furnace) without taking my shoes off and going into the camper to push a button or turn a knob.

So I guess I want both the visibility of one of the newer multiplex systems, backed up by knobs, switches and buttons. And a phone app.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by @Michael

So I guess I want both the visibility of one of the newer multiplex systems, backed up by knobs, switches and buttons. And a phone app.

That is what I like about the Shelly devices described in message #11 above. They are designed so you can continue to use whatever physical buttons you like, while still making them fully remote-controllable. They do this by toggling on/off whenever the state of the physical button changes (in either direction) -- kind of like conventional 3-way switches, except that one of the "switchers" is a computer. I was never willing to consider automation of lighting until they came around.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Davydd

The Silverleaf is just a gathering reporting screen mechanism. If there is a failure of the refrigerator it will be the refrigerator and that has nothing to do with Silverleaf. It prevents a cockpit like controls on a wall with individual modules and switches. It is kind of the wizard you see and the controls are hidden behind the screen in a cabinet. It probably is not a DIY venture anyway as at one ARVfest they mentioned that 28 companies participated in some way to create the wizard.

Does ARV provide a way to power down the Silverleaf while still keeping the van habitable? Do your light switches still work with the Silverleaf down?

(Not being critical either way. Just looking for good ideas.)

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by avanti

Does ARV provide a way to power down the Silverleaf while still keeping the van habitable? Do your light switches still work with the Silverleaf down?

(Not being critical either way. Just looking for good ideas.)

Silverleaf never "powers down" as it is always at the ready. The screen does turn off and touching it turns it back on. It can be programmed to turn off say at 10 PM or bedtime. It is very responsive to the touch. You never have to touch it hard or multiple times like my iPad.

Light switches are multiplex lighting throughout the van and don't interact with the Silverleaf other than one touch switch turns on or off the water pump in the bathroom which is a Silverleaf function as well.

This is the multiplex switch at the head of my bed. It turns on a reading lamp and a fan at the foot of my bed. It also can turn them off. There are six buttons available so it can also control main ceiling lights, accent lights, outside lights or all lighting at once. These are more important if you are tucked in bed and forget turning off lights. These six touch buttons are at the entrance to the van, kitchen, bathroom and the beds with different buttons as needed. The button lights can be turned on or off.

[avanti]

Im surprised the mux lighting isn't being handled by the Silverleaf system. Perhaps ARV shares my concern about too much centralization.

Can you control the lights from the main Silverleaf touch screen?

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by avanti

Im surprised the mux lighting isn't being handled by the Silverleaf system. Perhaps ARV shares my concern about too much centralization.

Can you control the lights from the main Silverleaf touch screen?

No. These Multiplex switches are throughout the van as I mentioned. There would be no reason to interface with the Silverleaf touch screen as it would have to be a multi-touch to get to a sub-screen and there would be no need since these mult-plex touch pads are located where manual light switches would go anyway but they are more versatile as normal light switches are two at the most in most locations. For example, in most vans you would have an outside light switch at the sliding door but with multi-plex as I mentioned it can be turned on and off at the beds.

My previous ARV van had regular light switches as it was built pre-multi-plex in offerings.

This is the main Silverleaf touch screen. If lighting interfaced with this it would have to be under Features where there are multiple other things so to get to lighting it would have to be two touch selections and then a third touch to turn on and off a light. Features is another panel of things you can get to customized for your van choices.

[avanti]

Thanks for the details.

I didn't mean to imply that a "lighting" menu in the main display would be particularly useful. it just would have been a hint as to how the mux system worked. The Silverleaf controller would be one way to implement the lighting and would be amenable to automation features.

I agree that keeping them separate is preferable. My van will use those little Shelly devices (described above), which permit full remote control while preserving the ability to have physical switches, which are ergonomically superior IMO. This seems like the best of both worlds, since all lights will be available at every HA touchscreen (and also every mobile phone/device) without having to sacrifice physical controls where appropriate. I will have a HA touchscreen (at least) by the bed and at the driver's seat. It will also be possible to save energy by powering down the HA server (at the expense of some features) while still having basic lighting controls. As you say, probably not particularly significant in my case, but would be important for folks with smaller batteries.

[Davydd]

On second look and second thought. It looks as if there is space for two more touch panels. A lighting touch item labeled "Lighting" could be put on the main screen but it would still be a two touch to turn on or off a light and what would it accomplish if there are already more convenient touch pads? I can't speak for ARV but if they can turn the water pump on and off at the Silverleaf and the multi-plex touch pads I suspect they could the lights.

ARV builds nothing less than 400ah so smaller batteries is not a consideration to accommodate. Powering down would mean a lot of accessible backup controls. That is redundant costing more money and space. I mentioned before, I don't desire a cockpit look of individual switches, monitors, etc. when one elegant touch screen will do. You wouldn't need a Silverleaf touch screen if you desired that. You might find that all this automation in no matter what form will have considerable battery demands no matter what.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Davydd

You might find that all this automation in no matter what form will have considerable battery demands no matter what.

Stay tuned...you may be surprised.

[avanti]

I have completed fabrication of the TV "flag" lift. Came out really well, but it was a lot more subtle than it looked. Here is a video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF5TUOxjSk4

The whole thing is only 2.5" thick, which I am pretty proud of (the best commercial equivalent I found was twice as thick, and required 120VAC). This is important since it steals space from under-counter storage. The thinness came mostly from (a) using a computer monitor rather than a TV; and (b) careful arrangement of the mechanism. The complex shape at the bottom has to do with fitting it around the wheel well.

The unpainted wood piece at the top is a placeholder for a hatch made of countertop material. The unit is controlled from a wall-mounted up/down switch (two momentary-contact switches). The hatch is opened and closed automatically, using a separate, tiny 2" actuator, and the tv is powered on or off as appropriate. The inside of the TV box is lined with felt, so the TV screen is protected. It stores tightly, so no rattle.

There were a number of tricky parts:
1) My first attempt depended only on the linear actuator to hold the TV. What I didn't realize is that these guys are not designed for any lateral torque. Even though the monitor is only six pounds, the off-center load produced a LOT of torque. Version two added a drawer slide behind the actuator to absorb the lateral forces. Version three moved this slide to be next to the actuator, rather than behind it, in order to save thickness.

2) The hatch open/close mechanism was a little tricky, due mostly to my inexperience with such things. I ended up mounting the actuator at the bottom using a long, stiff screen-door spring as a linkage. Works really well and the springiness pulls the hatch tight when it is closed, so it won't vibrate.

3) I had to take care making everything serviceable from the front, making sure that no screws from the back had to be removable.

4) The hardest part involved sensing the angle of the "flag". This had to be done with some precision, since it is needed to prevent any attempt to close the TV when it isn't aligned with the slot. First I tried a hall-sensor and a magnet. Couldn't get enough precision. Second, I tried an optical sensor mounted at the pivot. Couldn't get that to work, either. Finally, I got a little laser reflective sensor. It is mounted at the bottom of the box and points upward toward the bottom of the TV, which has a patch of prismatic reflective tape. When you press the "down" button, a red light goes on inside the slot until the TV is moved over the slot, at which point it turns green (which you can see in the video) and the tv starts moving downward.

This project is a great example of the usefulness of ESPhome. I built a custom module (in the box near the bottom with the red lights) which controls the actuator motor controller, reads the laser sensor and position feedback from the actuator, reads the up/down button inputs, controls the red/green LEDS and properly sequences the various actions. There was a lot of subtlety getting it to work seamlessly. I don't know how I would have done it otherwise. As an extra bonus, it automatically appears in Home Assistant, so it can be controlled and automated from the touch panel. Very slick. Can't wait to see it installed in the van.

[mkguitar]

that is amazing

I am the SouthWest's premier collector of Oliver Amplifiers ( I have 2)

one of Jess Oliver's innovations(?) is that the 40 pound amplifier raises up out of the speaker cabinet

the mechanism uses a sewing machine motor ( reversible on AC )
a belt drive to
a "pulley" which is clearly a modified lawnmower wheel
and a screwjack
with upper and lower limiting switches

a "solution" in search of a problem

your device is elegant

Mike

not mine:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbZxxg7DyPs

[GeorgeRa]

Looks very good, a lot of challenges. I would have 2 concerns:

1. Rattle on rough road.
2. Is the right angle fitting made from PVC?, this can be exposed to some mighty forces on rough roads, especially if during transport there is monitor weight on it. If it is PVC machining of an aluminum block could be easily.

I would likely choose simpler options, both very mechanical.
1. One CBLIFT-0019 with monitor edge attached with hinge. This lift can take 14.5 lbs. so it could be OK.
2. Or two Accuride CBLIFT-0019, monitor would be attached to one side with magnets and to other side with a hinge.

https://www.accuride.com/en-us/produ...chanical-lifts

Good luck.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

Looks very good, a lot of challenges. I would have 2 concerns:

1. Rattle on rough road.

Definitely not a problem. As I said, it fits quite snugly. Plus, the inside is lined with felt. I had planned to put spring-loaded stays inside, but it wasn't necessary. If I am wrong, I will deal with it, but very unlikely.

2. Is the right angle fitting made from PVC?, this can be exposed to some mighty forces on rough roads, especially if during transport there is monitor weight on it. If it is PVC machining of an aluminum block could be easily.

Nope, 3/4" copper, soldered. Pretty robust. You are right that there could be tremendous forces on a bumpy road. But, when it is retracted, the TV is no longer suspended. It sits of a bed of dense foam, which removes the weight from the fitting almost completely.

I would likely choose simpler options, both very mechanical.
1. One CBLIFT-0019 with monitor edge attached with hinge. This lift can take 14.5 lbs. so it could be OK.
2. Or two Accuride CBLIFT-0019, monitor would be attached to one side with magnets and to other side with a hinge.

I looked at many "catalog" options, including the Accuride. I would gladly have bought instead of built, but I could find nothing simpler that met my thickness goal. The CBLIFT alone is deeper than my entire unit. By the time you added hinges and enclosure, it would end up twice as thick. That is essentially how the commercial unit I mentioned was built. The beauty of the current design is that the TV, actuator, and slider are all in line, sharing the same depth.

I spent a lot of time screwing around with hinges. I could find nothing that remotely worked without taking up extravagant depth and/or adding a lot of complexity. You have to get to the VESA mount points on any monitor, and do it very rigidly, which is hard because they pretty much all have a fat place for connectors at the bottom, which limits how you can build the bracket without adding depth. As it was, the HDMI connector turned out to be the limiting factor in the depth of the TV storage cavity. I needed to get a special very-low-profile HDMI connector to make it work. There are an infinite number of exotic hinges available, but I just couldn't find anything that worked as well as the pipe-pivot at the end of the actuator piston. The machined aluminum is a good idea. If I ever have issues, I will probably do that. It would let me tighten up a few tolerances. Fortunately, that part of the mechanism is easily accessible and doesn't interact with anything else, so an upgrade would be easy.

Thanks for the feedback. We'll see how it goes.

[GeorgeRa]

Having the monitor siting on the bottom of the assembly will solve potential issues during transport.

Figuring a way to secure the monitor in upper position in case of failure, either mechanical lowering or brackets for bungee cords. My friends got stuck with aan extended pullout for days, not the same caliber issue but any system can fail.
Thanks for sharing.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

Figuring a way to secure the monitor in upper position in case of failure, either mechanical lowering or brackets for bungee cords.

In that scenario, I would simply remove the TV and stow it elsewhere.

It is amazing all the edge cases one needs to consider when trying to realize a seemingly-simple idea.