UHG or standard Generator?

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by mumkin

That Delco alternator wouldn't fit in the Promaster. Very little space under that hood and the Nations already hangs awfully low down near the passenger side tire. Quite a few have wiped it out on high curbs. Like many, I invested in the Edge Vanworks engine cover to help protect it.

I suspected and mentioned that about the Promaster. It does sit lower than the Sprinter. I you watched the video I posted you can see the Delco is much larger than the Nations but the Delco still fits well clear of the ground. I measured the nerf bar in the background and it was 8-1/2" clear off the ground for comparison.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by avanti

I know of no good evidence that the Sprinter DEF system has become any more reliable over time. The interfaces may have changed, but as far as I know, the actual operational systems are largely unchanged.

What do you mean of knowing of no good evidence? Do you have first hand experience with the VS30 Sprinter? Of course the actual operational system hasn't changed. DEF gets used up same as coolant and oil. I don't consider attending to DEF every 5,000 to 7,000 miles to be an onerous task.

For the record, I have 120,000 miles on two Sprinters with DEF and an estimated 400 days on the road if driving an average of 300 miles per day and I have never gotten a warning or count down for DEF. I think that's reliable or either I pay attention. As I mentioned you get a warning message when the DEF is 2.5 gallons down to add. The count down is different to and there is no surprise. You never got that message nor had a visual gauge on the dash to monitor. And you know reaching halfway over the engine to fill DEF is not as easy as this location near the front grill.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by Davydd

What do you mean of knowing of no good evidence?

What I mean is that I have paid close attention to this issue, I understand the statistical nature of the question, and there has been no obvious change over time in the rate or pattern of complaints across the community. Not ideal data, but they are the best available.

Do you have first hand experience with the VS30 Sprinter?

Respectfully, please don't attempt to yet again introduce this "first hand experience" trope. Frankly, it is absurd.

Of course the actual operational system hasn't changed.

If it hasn't changed, then it hasn't improved. You are contradicting yourself.

DEF gets used up same as coolant and oil. I don't consider attending to DEF every 5,000 to 7,000 miles to be an onerous task.

...and, please don't attempt to deflect the issue from reliability to convenience. I have never once complained about the inconvenience of the DEF system. What I complain about is having large numbers of owners having their trips ruined by an unreasonable number of debilitating failures.

For the record, I have 120,000 miles on two Sprinters with DEF and an estimated 400 days on the road if driving an average of 300 miles per day and I have never gotten a warning or count down for DEF. I think that's reliable or either I pay attention.

As I said, the question is statistical in nature. Neither your personal experience nor mine make any difference. The issue concerns the fleet, not individual vans. I'm sure you understand this.

As I mentioned you get a warning message when the DEF is 2.5 gallons down to add. The count down is different too and there is no surprise. You never got that message nor had a visual gauge on the dash to monitor.

As I already said, this is not correct. It is no more true than the "dipstick" claim. More importantly, the issue (at least for me) is not user error. DEF fluid reminders are and always has been hard to ignore. The issue is system faults that force "n starts remaining" conditions out of the blue.

And you know reaching halfway over the engine to fill DEF is not as easy as this location near the front grill.

That is exactly the same fill location as my MY2014.
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There were several different tank locations, but the one you have has been in use for many years now. It is not a VS30 change.

[MsNomer]

Originally Posted by Rlum

Underhood generator with Ram Promaster. I have a Ram Promaster and read many postings regarding long term idling and it's impact on engine life. Here is a link to a class action suit regarding this issue. So be careful if you are using your Promaster engine UHG to charge your house battery?

https://www.classaction.org/news/hea...ngine-problems

I read just the summary, not the petition itself, and what I read had a fairly high BS component. The tick, and associated damage, is caused by poor material selection for the needle bearings in the rocker arms. When we replaced ours at 190,000 miles, we went from version AA to AH. Idling is irrelevant.

[booster]

Originally Posted by MsNomer

I read just the summary, not the petition itself, and what I read had a fairly high BS component. The tick, and associated damage, is caused by poor material selection for the needle bearings in the rocker arms. When we replaced ours at 190,000 miles, we went from version AA to AH. Idling is irrelevant.

That is interesting. I read just enough to be skeptical about the whole thing. When they said that there were no better parts available to fix the problem, it gave me huge skepticism. If there are known factory problems,especially for the things as basic as roller rockers, the aftermarket would be all over it in a very short time. They have been making aftermarket roller rockers for decades that survive huge valve spring pressures in high performance, high rpm, race engines. I have a set of them in my 96 Buick 5.7 engine wagon as I write. That engine didn't even come with roller rockers. These same rockers are used on very many short track race cars so I have no fear of them.


Anybody that has the suspect engines probably would be wise to change the rockers before they fail, though, as getting the debris into the engine can shorten it's life by a lot, even if it passes "inspection" after the failure.


They are not the first ones to have trouble with factory roller rockers. GM had similar issues 25 years ago.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by avanti

What I mean is that I have paid close attention to this issue, I understand the statistical nature of the question, and there has been no obvious change over time in the rate or pattern of complaints across the community. Not ideal data, but they are the best available.

Respectfully, please don't attempt to yet again introduce this "first hand experience" trope. Frankly, it is absurd.

If it hasn't changed, then it hasn't improved. You are contradicting yourself.

...and, please don't attempt to deflect the issue from reliability to convenience. I have never once complained about the inconvenience of the DEF system. What I complain about is having large numbers of owners having their trips ruined by an unreasonable number of debilitating failures.

As I said, the question is statistical in nature. Neither your personal experience nor mine make any difference. The issue concerns the fleet, not individual vans. I'm sure you understand this.

As I already said, this is not correct. It is no more true than the "dipstick" claim. More importantly, the issue (at least for me) is not user error. DEF fluid reminders are and always has been hard to ignore. The issue is system faults that force "n starts remaining" conditions out of the blue.

That is exactly the same fill location as my MY2014.
Attachment 14184
There were several different tank locations, but the one you have has been in use for many years now. It is not a VS30 change.

I know that 3 components were improved/changed: 1. DEF heater is no longer an issue; 2. NOX sensors via multiple generations are similar in reliability of O2 Lambda sensors; 3. Pd catalytic converter changed to a Cu one, I have no clue why. Added warranty and financial bonus sweeten left over bad taste but for us not enough to continue with Mercedes diesel if we would face another selection decision.

Our new Honda hybrid gets better gas mileage than VW Jetta, it is extremely quiet, no transmission (no CVT nor gear), Atkinson engine, so predicted high reliability on all fronts. Diesel is getting killed by its complexity.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

I know that 3 components were improved/changed: 1. DEF heater is no longer an issue; 2. NOX sensors via multiple generations are similar in reliability of O2 Lambda sensors; 3. Pd catalytic converter changed to a Cu one, I have no clue why.

I agree about the DEF heater. The other two I'm not so sure of:
--The NOX sensors have (as you say) gone through so many iterations without noticeable progress that I am just skeptical about the latest ones. Failures seem to have continued through all the pre-AEM versions. MAYBE they got it right this time...maybe. It is too soon to tell, but forgive me for being skeptical.
--I didn't know about the cat change--interesting. However, to my knowledge, the cat has never been a major failure point at reasonable mileage.

The extended warranty is nice, and has value. However, my problem has never been cost of repairs. It has been spoiled trips, and warranties don't help with that.

[GeorgeRa]

Y.O

Originally Posted by avanti

...

The extended warranty is nice, and has value. However, my problem has never been cost of repairs. It has been spoiled trips, and warranties don't help with that.

Agree, getting stuck is a lasting killer of trust in a vehicle. We got stuck for one day in the middle of Texas, 100 miles to a Sprinter dealer, fortunately we had no time limitations.

Our loaner was a E300, it's Cristmas tree like user interface had to be designed by the same folks who designed the DEF disaster, took me a while to turn on the radio.

[MsNomer]

Originally Posted by booster

Anybody that has the suspect engines probably would be wise to change the rockers before they fail, though, as getting the debris into the engine can shorten it's life by a lot, even if it passes "inspection" after the failure.

Actually, the audible tick starts so early, there’s about a 10,000-mile lead time before serious damage. Our tick started quite suddenly, and we did give it high priority.