Travato charging

[bobojay]

You automatically get the 220 with the diesel from FCA

[Bud]

Originally Posted by avanti

Even with a second alternator (which I think is a no-brainer), you might want to consider a modest solar setup if you store your vehicle outdoors without being plugged in. Even a small solar capacity will keep your batteries healthy and happy indefinitely while not in use. It doesn't take much, and it is really nice to be able to just forget about your battery.

Hi again Mr avanti,

Maybe it is all your fault, the result of your comment above "it is really nice to be able to just forget about your battery". So I went and purchased a Battery Tender Plus, but I know little and could have screwed it up. It does not seem to be quite right to this somewhat ignorant lay person, please assist.

I first added a second 12 volt group 27 battery, 2 new ones. I simply ran the cable from the original battery location the the second battery about 8 cable feet away. I attached the Battery Tender to the Second battery. The batteries needed a little charging when I attached the Battery Tender. All went as expected with the lights, time to full charge, etc.

BUT

The Battery lights in my 05/04 Roadtrek 190P do not seem quite right, or as expected. If I drive the Express Van long enough to full charge the battery, the full charge light will be on after turning off the van's engine. It will continue to show full charge for a few minutes. If the battery tender shows full for days, the full charge light will not be on just after removing the battery tender, not like the running the van's engine or after charging with the 110v charger. I thought maybe that was ok? Maybe the Battery Tender is not suppose to keep them quite charged enough to show full charge in the RV.

Today, I drove the van and exercised the generator. I drove about 15 minutes and the full charge was not on after. That does not seem right since the battery tender had just been removed before driving. Seems like it should have shown a full charge. Maybe the Battery Tender is not charging the batteries, even though the lights show a full charge. If so, 15 minutes of driving this morning may not have been enough to show a full charge after turning off the van's engine.

Your thoughts avanti? Anyone?

Thank you.

Bud

[booster]

With your current idiot lights, you have about zero chance of knowing much of anything about how charged your batteries are. The charging sources you have may get the batteries full, or not, depending on conditions and you won't be able to tell for sure if they are full, overcharged, or not.

The best place to start is by getting a good battery monitor like the Trimetric, or other shunt based brand. Trying to chase down charging issues and improve charging quality is essentially impossible if you can't accurately see what is happening. IMO, all RVs should come with a decent monitor, as the lights cause more problems than they help.

[markopolo]

Most likely a KiB monitor panel in your RT:

http://www.classbforum.com/forums/f5...ghts-2295.html

Full charge is 12.7V+ so you'll likely see it lit when any charging source is present.

I'd also expect to see it for a while after the charging source is removed. For example: My van wasn't plugged in overnight in the garage (I forgot to plug it in) but still showed 12.9V the next afternoon. I have a fairly large bank of AGM batteries.

[markopolo]

I didn't see Boosters post before replying. Like he says; the lights don't tell you much about what is going on.

Do you know if your RT has a Hehr Isolator or does it have a Sure Power Separator? If it has the Separator then most of the amps available from the Battery Tender Plus could very well be being used up by the Separator leaving very little for the batteries.

[Bud]

Originally Posted by markopolo

I didn't see Boosters post before replying. Like he says; the lights don't tell you much about what is going on.

Do you know if your RT has a Hehr Isolator or does it have a Sure Power Separator? If it has the Separator then most of the amps available from the Battery Tender Plus could very well be being used up by the Separator leaving very little for the batteries.

Thanks Markopolo, booster,

I don't know the answers to those questions.

"With your current idiot lights, you have about zero chance of knowing much of anything about how charged your batteries are."

Generally I agree with one exception, but I did not explain it very well, sorry.

"Full charge is 12.7V+ so you'll likely see it lit when any charging source is present. I'd also expect to see it for a while after the charging source is removed."

It is always lit with the alternator, and 110v charger, And the Battery Tender. And it will as Markopolo says, stay on for a while after the charging source is removed, But Not the Battery Tender charging source!

The full charge idiot light has always been consistent and on after the battery has been charged long enough by the alternator, 110v and generator charger, Always, but never the Battery Tender.

Now, no matter how long the Battery Tender Plus is charging, it is never on after removing the Battery Tender charger like the other charging methods. Yet, the Battery Tender is functioning as it should per all the lights on it.

What makes no sense to me is if the Battery Tender has been on for days, full charge per the Battery Tender light, 15-20 minutes of alternator did not keep the light on after turning off the alternator/engine.

Anything is possible, like the alternator is not charging the rv batteries, but is charging the van's battery. If it had worked 5 minutes, then maybe the idiot full charge light would have been on.

Wait, maybe the light no longer will turn on? I'll go see right now if the light is on with the Battery Tender on. It is on, so I suppose the batteries have to 'see' that the Battery Tender is there.

It appears that the Battery Tender is not keeping the batteries fully charged, otherwise why would the full charge idiot light not be on after 15 minutes of alternator use? Odd.

I can't explain it. You guys?

Bud

[booster]

The most likely explanation is that the batteries are sometimes full and sometimes not, even at the same voltage (idiot light threshold).

When a charging source is on, if it has enough amp capacity, it will hold the voltage above the 12.7v that Marko listed as the charged voltage. It has no relation to if the battery is fully charged or not. The Tender likely doesn't have enough capacity to hold the voltage up. The shore charger and alternator do have the capacity, once the batteries get near full.

Voltage is, at best, a rough approximation of the state of charge of the battery, and only if the battery has been sitting with zero load for at least 4 hours. This is virtually impossible to do in a van with an idiot light monitor because you have to have the 12v power on for the monior and there are always some loads.

When you shut off a power source that has held the voltage up above the 12.7v, it will stay there a while, even if the battery is not completely full, due to surface charge, so it is only a relative guess of charge state, especially since there are also some loads on. Our relatively new AGMs will hold 13.1v for a couple of days with no load on them.

The only way I know to tell if you are completely charged is by looking at the amps going to the battery (exception would be checking specific gravity and temp correcting for wet cells). A monitor will let you see the amps, so you will know when the batteries are full, as they will quit dropping. You will also be able to see if the Tender has enough capacity to keep you topped up (probably not).

You are seeing pretty much the same thing that nearly everyone with the lights see. The problem is that the information that you are getting from the lights isn't doing you a whole lot of good, which is why you are seeing things that don't make sense, because they don't.

[markopolo]

Maybe these Roadtrek with Battery Tender Plus questions can be split off to a new topic.

Originally Posted by Bud

............................. < It appears that the Battery Tender is not keeping the batteries fully charged, otherwise why would the full charge idiot light not be on after 15 minutes of alternator use? Odd.

I can't explain it. You guys? > ...............................

Bud

The Battery Tender Plus is a 1.25 amp charger.
The Sure Power Separator has been reported to draw up to 1.5 amps.

If your Roadtrek has a Sure Power Separator then maybe all or most of the Battery Tender Plus output is going to power the Sure Power Separator with little or nothing left for the batteries.

[Bud]

marko, the manual say an isolator, Hehr, but I don't trust the Roadtrek Manual as it has been wrong. But even if it were as you describe, why would the Battery Tender say the battery is full charged?

I'll call the Battery Tender folks, inquire and get back.

Bud

[booster]

Out of curiosity, what style, brand, model number of batteries did you put in. If they are wet cells, they could easily be taking more than the Tender can put out, even when they are full. The Tender would never get them charged if they were down even a little.

The light on the Tender probably is triggered by voltage so it could trigger before the batteries are totally full as long as it can hold up the voltage high enough. When they design the Tender, they have no idea how big or what style your battery will be, so they have to guess on the voltage setting.

[markopolo]

Were any other loads left on like compartment lights or the Tripp Lite inverter?

This topic might interest you: http://www.classbforum.com/forums/f8...switch-18.html

[Bud]

I'm back marko, booster, and feeling somewhat aggravated with ME, Dumb.

The answer is that with some chargers, you can connect the charger to just one battery when 2 12 volt batteries (parallel), but Not the Battery Tender. I called them.

The dumb part on my part. I read about chargers in general Only. The Battery Tender Manual did not cover 2 batteries, but their web site does in the 'technical' link.

Basically, the Battery Tender only sees the one battery it is connected to. I'll have to run some wire so I can 'easily' connect the Tender to both batteries that are 8 cable feet apart, positive and negative. I'll need to charge the battery that has not 'seen' the Battery Tender fully before connecting to both, or at least both need about the same charge which basically means both fully charged.

Thanks again guys.

DUMB!

Bud

[booster]

That doesn't really make sense to me. I don't know why a Tender would behave differently than any other charger. I would think it would just see it as on big battery, as long as the batteries match closely. If you have one battery discharged more than the other you have some other matching issues with them in parallel, as they will actually crosscharge and balance out when sitting.

Do you have a link to the information, I didn't see it there.

I did find this, though


"Can the Battery Tender® Plus battery charger be used to charge more than 1 battery simultaneously if the batteries are connected in parallel?

Yes, but with restrictions. A parallel connection means that positive posts of each battery are electrically connected together and the negative posts of each battery are electrically connected together. The voltage of a parallel connected battery pack is exactly the same as the voltage of each battery in that pack.

If the nominal battery voltages (i.e. 12V, 8V, 6V) are the same on each battery, and if the batteries are the same lead acid type (flooded, AGM, or Gel Cell), then yes, the Battery Tender® Plus battery charger can be used to charge more than 1 battery simultaneously when those batteries are connected in parallel. Just remember that 2 batteries in parallel behave like one large battery. The charge storage capacity of each battery simply adds together. Two 12 volt batteries, each with 25 amp hour capacities, will look like one 12 volt battery with a 50 amp hour capacity. You may be able to charge more than 1 battery simultaneously, but it will take longer to do it."

[Bud]

Interesting booster, isn't it? I did not mentioned it earlier, but I was pretty sure I had used the website, but not find what I needed/had to read! I tend to think that I read what you posted with No mention of how to use the thing.

On the phone I did think to ask basically what your thinking and mine 'was', head still hurts though. I asked what if you don't connect the tender to one battery only, rather the cable between the batteries! The person said that they could not answer as it would only be speculation on their part.

The link on how to use And click on Number 9:

Battery Tender - Connecting Chargers

Bud

[markopolo]

What is shown at Number 9 is the better way to make the connections. It would ensure the exact same voltage for both A and B batteries.

Connecting only to either A or B battery terminals also would also work but you could see slightly different voltages at A and B because of resistance from wire length and connection points.

[Bud]

Originally Posted by markopolo

What is shown at Number 9 is the better way to make the connections. It would ensure the exact same voltage for both A and B batteries.

Connecting only to either A or B battery terminals also would also work but you could see slightly different voltages at A and B because of resistance from wire length and connection points.

Mr marko, my head stopped hurting when I stopped trying to understand. I do know that I was told 'it will not work', period. That the Battery Tender will only charge the one battery.

If this is true, when I started the van's engine, both batteries would have been charging? But one would have been fully charged and one would not have. Now what?

My head hurts again, do you guys have a pill for that?

Bud

[booster]

If you are in parallel both batteries should charge off of any charging source you have. The only way on won't charge is if there is a bad connection or a bad battery.

You may want to take a look at how the second battery was added, particularly the ground connections to the frame, which can require a lot of cleaning sometimes to get good contact.

[Bud]

I decided to discount what I experienced yesterday, and start over trying to understand. I decided that the 'preferred' way to connect the charger is both batteries for the very reason explained above. If connected to only one battery, the other battery will will receive less.

So I already have this with the alternator, and 110v charger. I've used about 8 feet of 4 gage cable which I thought was enough.

Actually, my way is so brilliant. I charge in one direction with the RV chargers (alternator, 110v charger) and in the other direction with the Battery Tender using different batteries. Thus it all averages out. If you believe that or that there was any brilliance at all, I have a new Roadtrek Etek that has zero problems for sale.

Thanks for the support. I'm not going to change anything.

Bud

[kmessinger]

The current fridge in a 59k is 12 volt. I keep mine on 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Never a battery problem. Just common sense with the lights, etc. In my current Travato soon to be replaced I have a generator. Soooo 2020 and a great way to make enemies.